Brady In Decline?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I've already posted a couple of times on this thread and, to be clear, my enthusiasm for Tom Brady as the Pats QB is as strong as it's ever been.  Having said that, what I found most disappointing was the failure of the Pats offense not only in the red zone but on the Ravens end of the field throughout the game.  In my opinion, the pick in the end zone was almost predictable given the situation.  The Ravens D knew what TB was going to have to do and they played it well.  I, too, was a little puzzled by Brady's demeanor late.  Not something we're accustomed to seeing.

     



     

     

    I have to disagree with this. IMO the game was over at 14-13 when Ridley fumbled. Sure we believe we are always in it but nothing was going right and up to that point Brady had been steady and had to deal with many drop passes. Both drives you mention stalled due Wes and LLoyd dropping passes. Give him blame for putting 3 instead of 7 at halftime but really?  He saw nothing was going right and another playoff loss and he is supposed to rally the troops! I mean we want him to be fired up but what does he say?? " go yell at Wes to start making catches and risk a mutiny?  That last desperation throw meant nothing and I had already condeded a loss. Im a fan and I new by halftime it was a loss. How long u think it takes Brady to realize this. It wasnt our day. Everything around Brady Crumbled including the coach.  He got to the redzone really only 3 times. The halftime debacle which BB took credit for. The tipped pass INT and the desperation INT. I will credit him with the last but the game was over.  You all need to re-watch the game. Getting to the other teams 40 means nothing if you are punting.

     



    OK, not to be argumentative but where in my post did I hang it on Brady?  I spoke to the failure of the Pats offense which includes everyone on the O side of the ball.  Brady will be the first to accept responsibility for a good deal of the execution issues and I respect him for that.  A good deal of the responsibility also sits with the receivers for dropping well thrown passes and with the O line who, although not allowing a sack, didn't give Brady as much of a chance as, IMO, they should have.  Again, the Pats O, QB, RB, receiving corps and O-line.  

     




    ATJ, im sorry that I came off that way. I really was referring to the Brady demeanor comment and was pointing to all those things that happen and how they could make someone feel down. I just really believe he was bummed out. Sure the game wasnt technically over but it was. The season starts in May, mini camps, training camp, preseason, 16 grueling games and postseason ends in a crash landing like BB said. He was taking it all in and realizing he failed again to lead his team to a title and he takes that stufff pretty hard even though others contributed to it. He knows how much this team relies on him and his offense stunk it up. I would be in the dumps too. This is going back to 07' remember. year after year of putting up stats with nothing to show for it. What you saw was the infamous Gomer Stare into space glaze...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CornHole12. Show CornHole12's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    What a sniveling little whiner he is, I mean really?   His career has come down to kicking other players like a little sissy?

     

     I'm embarrassed to be a Patriot fan right now.... Oh the shame!!  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I've already posted a couple of times on this thread and, to be clear, my enthusiasm for Tom Brady as the Pats QB is as strong as it's ever been.  Having said that, what I found most disappointing was the failure of the Pats offense not only in the red zone but on the Ravens end of the field throughout the game.  In my opinion, the pick in the end zone was almost predictable given the situation.  The Ravens D knew what TB was going to have to do and they played it well.  I, too, was a little puzzled by Brady's demeanor late.  Not something we're accustomed to seeing.

     



     

     

    I have to disagree with this. IMO the game was over at 14-13 when Ridley fumbled. Sure we believe we are always in it but nothing was going right and up to that point Brady had been steady and had to deal with many drop passes. Both drives you mention stalled due Wes and LLoyd dropping passes. Give him blame for putting 3 instead of 7 at halftime but really?  He saw nothing was going right and another playoff loss and he is supposed to rally the troops! I mean we want him to be fired up but what does he say?? " go yell at Wes to start making catches and risk a mutiny?  That last desperation throw meant nothing and I had already condeded a loss. Im a fan and I new by halftime it was a loss. How long u think it takes Brady to realize this. It wasnt our day. Everything around Brady Crumbled including the coach.  He got to the redzone really only 3 times. The halftime debacle which BB took credit for. The tipped pass INT and the desperation INT. I will credit him with the last but the game was over.  You all need to re-watch the game. Getting to the other teams 40 means nothing if you are punting.

     



    OK, not to be argumentative but where in my post did I hang it on Brady?  I spoke to the failure of the Pats offense which includes everyone on the O side of the ball.  Brady will be the first to accept responsibility for a good deal of the execution issues and I respect him for that.  A good deal of the responsibility also sits with the receivers for dropping well thrown passes and with the O line who, although not allowing a sack, didn't give Brady as much of a chance as, IMO, they should have.  Again, the Pats O, QB, RB, receiving corps and O-line.  

     

     




     

    ATJ, im sorry that I came off that way. I really was referring to the Brady demeanor comment and was pointing to all those things that happen and how they could make someone feel down. I just really believe he was bummed out. Sure the game wasnt technically over but it was. The season starts in May, mini camps, training camp, preseason, 16 grueling games and postseason ends in a crash landing like BB said. He was taking it all in and realizing he failed again to lead his team to a title and he takes that stufff pretty hard even though others contributed to it. He knows how much this team relies on him and his offense stunk it up. I would be in the dumps too. This is going back to 07' remember. year after year of putting up stats with nothing to show for it. What you saw was the infamous Gomer Stare into space glaze...



    No issue here with any of your last post.  Yeah, that would certainly explain the hang-dog look and he is after all human.  

    That Ridley fumble, by the way, I also think sealed the deal.  That was a hell of a hit and I'm not at all surprised the ball came out.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    +In response to palookaski's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

     

    I would be ridiculous to claim that a soon to be 36 year-old professional is not in the decline... I do not care if he has already had his best statistical season. The question is whether or not he is still a good enough QB to win a Super Bowl and I think he still has three maybe even four of those seasons in him (Elway won it at 38 by taking a backseat to Terrell Davis).

    Pretty much refflects my view of Brady.

     



    +2

     

     



    + anyone with an IQ over 100

     

     

    There are some who get it, some who don't




    You get virtually nothing junior. Most clueless fan I have ever come across.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ultpatfan. Show ultpatfan's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    Well, one thing's for sure, if brady is in decline he always has being a Kung Fu instructor to look forward to!!

     

    HIYA!!



    I think TB is in decline; gradual but noticable (doesn't seem to have accuracy with long throws, slower a foot, not as consistenly quick thinking in the pocket in recent years, not many last minute comeback clock management plays (Welker in SB drop not included).

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to CornHole12's comment:

    What a sniveling little whiner he is, I mean really?   His career has come down to kicking other players like a little sissy?

     

     I'm embarrassed to be a Patriot fan right now.... Oh the shame!!  




    Somebody take out the trash.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    Brady is in such a decline for so long both Boomer and Sharpe said he was the GOAT before the game.



     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    " I'm embarrassed to be a Patriot fan right now.... Oh the shame!!  "

    Well I'm embarassed you are a fas as well, so the feeling is definitely mutual. Is there something we can do to resolve this, perhaps by figuring out how you can not be a Pats fan anymore?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    well he definitely isnt the same playoff qb he used to be, he is still producing at a high level in the regular season and played well vs the texans in that first playoff game. its obvious his best days are behind him, he is 35 years old...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    @Rusty you are slightly correct but you're wrong about the reasons. Brady has not been quite the same since he was hurt the year after 2007. He doesn't move as well (never moved well but even slower and more challenged as we saw in this game), and is a bit more skittish in the pocket. 

    It's understandable after an injury like that not to come all the way back. That said Brady is more than good enough to win another Super Bowl in the next year or two, but he does need a better defense, better running game, overall better people around him to do so. We're close on the running game, but not sure we're close on the defense, when you have a defense that lets a team like the Ravens score every time they are in the Red Zone you are not winning playoff games. 

    I think we can also accept that having an "opportunistic" defense that relies on turnovers is not a good thing in the postseason. We have been near last in the regular season on total yards and third down conversions allowed and that speaks volumes. But even the defense has improved so with a bad AFC east we will have a shot the next couple of years. Even with Brady taking a step back (I'd argue a small one, but a step nonethless), there is no reason why this team can't win a Super Bowl. Now, a couple years from now when Brady is even older and the younger guns like Kap, Wilson, RG3, Luck etc have matured it will be tough. But there is still a window of opportunity. 

    However Bill also needs to coach a much better playoff game. That was one of the softest coachings jobs I have ever seen. 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    @Rusty you are slightly correct but you're wrong about the reasons. Brady has not been quite the same since he was hurt the year after 2007. He doesn't move as well (never moved well but even slower and more challenged as we saw in this game), and is a bit more skittish in the pocket. 

    It's understandable after an injury like that not to come all the way back. That said Brady is more than good enough to win another Super Bowl in the next year or two, but he does need a better defense, better running game, overall better people around him to do so. We're close on the running game, but not sure we're close on the defense, when you have a defense that lets a team like the Ravens score every time they are in the Red Zone you are not winning playoff games. 

    I think we can also accept that having an "opportunistic" defense that relies on turnovers is not a good thing in the postseason. We have been near last in the regular season on total yards and third down conversions allowed and that speaks volumes. But even the defense has improved so with a bad AFC east we will have a shot the next couple of years. Even with Brady taking a step back (I'd argue a small one, but a step nonethless), there is no reason why this team can't win a Super Bowl. Now, a couple years from now when Brady is even older and the younger guns like Kap, Wilson, RG3, Luck etc have matured it will be tough. But there is still a window of opportunity. 

    However Bill also needs to coach a much better playoff game. That was one of the softest coachings jobs I have ever seen. 

     



    it really seemed like bill wasnt into it.....not saying he didnt care, because im sure he wanted to win as much as any of us wanted to see them win....but the gameplan was poor and so was the clock management. that did not look like a BB coached team.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to CornHole12's comment:

    What a sniveling little whiner he is, I mean really?   His career has come down to kicking other players like a little sissy?

     

     I'm embarrassed to be a Patriot fan right now.... Oh the shame!!  



    Her's another Rusty log-in

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfitone. Show kjfitone's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    Belichick did a lousy job coaching and Brady did a lousy jog quarterbacking against the Ravens. This last loss seals the deal for me, Brady is done playing big in big games against good teams. We've seen it over and over again. He lights up the garbage of the league and can't do anything against the elite teams with elite defenses. He isn't the same under pressure and looks timid when teams get a pass rush on him. He's missed wide open guys all year and throws too many picks in the playoffs. He was great in his day but its time to end this before it gets worse. The Patriots will never win another Super Bowl with Brady, no way.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to kjfitone's comment:

    Belichick did a lousy job coaching and Brady did a lousy jog quarterbacking against the Ravens. This last loss seals the deal for me, Brady is done playing big in big games against good teams. We've seen it over and over again. He lights up the garbage of the league and can't do anything against the elite teams with elite defenses. He isn't the same under pressure and looks timid when teams get a pass rush on him. He's missed wide open guys all year and throws too many picks in the playoffs. He was great in his day but its time to end this before it gets worse. The Patriots will never win another Super Bowl with Brady, no way.



    thats a little overboard, even though brady isn't at the same level as say 2004 hes still better than most of the qb's. we can win it all next year, the defense will continue to get better and the offense should have a healthy gronk, ballard , and demps. add a couple more good players to that and why couldn't they win? brady played very well against the texans and i'd say they are one of the leagues elite. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    The stats seem to show it.   It's painful to admit it, but once you concede this fact where we've now seen it so much in the postseason in recent years, it's easier for your expectations with our offense and its capability.

    I don't have ESPN Insider, but if anyone does maybe they can post the entire piece:

     

    Is Brady a quarterback in decline? January, 24, 2013 Jan 24 4:59 PM ET By ESPNBoston.com

    In an ESPN.com Insider piece that probably isn't going to be popular with Patriots fans, KC Joyner writes that both the numbers and anecdotal evidence point to Tom Brady as a quarterback in decline. Here is an excerpt:

    SportsNation

    Are Tom Brady's best days behind him?

    •   58% Yes
    •   42% No

    Discuss (Total votes: 5,444)

    At first glance, this might not look to be the case. After all, Brady ranked second in the league in Total QBR, fourth in passing yards and touchdown passes and was tied for first in interception percentage.

    Good as those figures are, they belie some disturbing trends. Brady's yards per attempt (7.6) and completion percentage (63.0) were his lowest since 2006 and his touchdown percentage (5.3) was his lowest since 2009.

    He also showed a significant statistical drop down the stretch, as his December numbers in YPA (7.0), completion percentage (58.5) and touchdown to interception ratio (10-to-5) were the worst monthly totals of his 2012 season.

    It isn't just the numbers where Brady started to show some regression.

    He looked painfully slow in the AFC Championship Game against Baltimore. This was especially evident on a fourth-and-4 play in the fourth quarter when it looked like Brady had plenty of room to scramble for a first down inside the Ravens' 15-yard line. Instead, he ran sideways, looked behind him to see if anyone was closing in and eventually chucked the ball well short of his receiver in the end zone.

     




    If he is in decline, it's minor. He still had a great year, despite below average WR talent. As far as that 4th and 4 play, although he looked slow, he was never a great runner to begin with. I don't believe even the great scramblers of the past (Staubach, Tarkenton, S. Young, B. Douglass, A. Manning believe it or not, Namath when at Alabama, etc) were still a running force to be reckoned with at his age. Let's see what RGIII or even the other less injury prone scrambling young studs (Wilson, Kaepernick, Newton) look like when they hit their mid 30s.

    The only QBs I would take over Brady right now are Rodgers & Brees, and some would dispute that.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In 2012, Brady's offense set a new NFL record for first downs in a 16 game season. 

    First downs do a number of nice things for your team.  First, the opponent's defense starts playing like a donut that's been left in the coffee too long.  Second, your own team's somewhat anemic pass defense stays on the bench drinking Gatorade, taking coaching points and talking about local restaurants for a post-game meal.  Third, your offense can rush up to the line of scrimmage, forcing the opponent's defense to play the eleven guys still on the field from either third and 10 or second and 1.  With any luck they won't line up properly and your wide receiver is uncovered. 

    It may be that when the opponent in the 2012 NFL is bringing heat fast, an eight yard pass play on first and 10 is pretty golden.  Second and two is a matter of handing the ball to your running back and he runs in back of a competent run-blocking offensive line for an easy first down, or if the opponent seems to be playing the run, throw another high-percentage short pass.   The Patriots' short pass play seems to work like a charm in the red zone, so there's not much to stop it.  34.85 points per game in a cold, windy stadium isn't bad at all.

    Brady's recent numbers problem could be Bill Belichick's football calculations.  BB wanted to win more football games, so he shortened the pass play distance and he shortened Brady's average time in the pocket to an NFL low.

    So, be careful about people sifting through lots of figures, looking for a good one.  One half of one game against Baltimore does not a trend make.   In fact, Brady was hitting lots of guys in the hands during the second half but the guys were all hearing footsteps, and that's what killed the long drives.  Also, Gronk and three important defensive players went out, and then the running back was knocked cold and fumbled the football.  Brady's age didn't have anything to do with all that.

    Tom Brady will slide downhill some day, but there's no real evidence of that right now.  He wants to win and out of the last 11 games, including the two playoff-caliber opponents, his team won 9, mostly with Brady carrying the team on his back.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    In 2012, Brady's offense set a new NFL record for first downs in a 16 game season. 

    First downs do a number of nice things for your team.  First, the opponent's defense starts playing like a donut that's been left in the coffee too long.  Second, your own team's somewhat anemic pass defense stays on the bench drinking Gatorade, taking coaching points and talking about local restaurants for a post-game meal.  Third, your offense can rush up to the line of scrimmage, forcing the opponent's defense to play the eleven guys still on the field from either third and 10 or second and 1.  With any luck they won't line up properly and your wide receiver is uncovered. 

    It may be that when the opponent in the 2012 NFL is bringing heat fast, an eight yard pass play on first and 10 is pretty golden.  Second and two is a matter of handing the ball to your running back and he runs in back of a competent run-blocking offensive line for an easy first down, or if the opponent seems to be playing the run, throw another high-percentage short pass.   The Patriots' short pass play seems to work like a charm in the red zone, so there's not much to stop it.  34.85 points per game in a cold, windy stadium isn't bad at all.

    Brady's recent numbers problem could be Bill Belichick's football calculations.  BB wanted to win more football games, so he shortened the pass play distance and he shortened Brady's average time in the pocket to an NFL low.

    So, be careful about people sifting through lots of figures, looking for a good one.  One half of one game against Baltimore does not a trend make.   In fact, Brady was hitting lots of guys in the hands during the second half but the guys were all hearing footsteps, and that's what killed the long drives.  Also, Gronk and three important defensive players went out, and then the running back was knocked cold and fumbled the football.  Brady's age didn't have anything to do with all that.

    Tom Brady will slide downhill some day, but there's no real evidence of that right now.  He wants to win and out of the last 11 games, including the two playoff-caliber opponents, his team won 9, mostly with Brady carrying the team on his back.



    The 1st down record may have been aided by the fact that they do a lot of hurryup. Otherwise, a good, informed post, that I agree with.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    The Pats seemed not prepared for the Game. One of the guys mentioned this at halftime that they not fully into it mentality or physically standpoint. We felt they had 7 points right before the half in the bag with enough seconds left. Hernandez not getting out of bounds, he should have known.

    One of the guys taped the game and next day we viewed it and remarkably it seemd even during the National Anthem something was up, the Pats seemed lackadaisakle but the Ravens were paying attention and getting emotionally into the game even then.

    During the game one guy mentioned that Brady did'nt seem himself, showing hardly any emotion or upbeat like always and his leadership ability seemed lost. It was then we viewed Harbaugh at halftime saying that he will tell his team " we are going to win" at the same time Belichick feared a long pass by Flacco. Talib goes out and then Flacco turns into Brady like mode with that vanilla defense in 2nd half. Thought for sure we would see a halftime change of gameplan by the Pats with more Vereen and Woodhead, PA, fast tempo etc ..... we could feel it, once the Ravens got up and the Pats were done, game over! Fans gut feelings are real, long before the game was over. Not good when your outcoached at home. Can't win when your opponent turns the ball over ............. with scores.

    The mourning period (rightfully so) is about over now and let's look forward ..... have good night!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    My knock on TB has nothing to do with completion rate or whatever conventional stats measure. IMO what made him a great QB back int he day was his ability to throw the ball not jsut to different receivers, but to different areas of the field. No tendencies.

    Over the past few years, he focuses on three people (G, H, W), but it really doe snot matter becasue he throws it to the same general area, most of the time. 

    Other than the HOU game, I actually do not remember seeing TB throw a lot overhead passes to the sidelines

    I do not buy the lack of talent argument. So many WRs have gone through NWE over the last few years. Those receivers just don't get thrown at.

    Ultimately, their offense has been pretty predictable.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    dumbest

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    For all this talk about his completion rate and suppossed drop in accuracy...is there any mention that the wind was blowing 20 mph during that last game? Many of you don't live around here, trust me it was windy as hell that Sunday. Friends of mine were at that game and they couldn't believe how windy it was. If the writer is talking about the entire season in general...does he consider the fact that he lost his best weapon that had the largest wing spand by far? Does he mention that he also lost his other 45 million dollar tight end for much of the season as well? Does he mention that Welker's recieving radius is absurdly small? Does he mention that Lloyd can't seperate, get deep, or catch a ball in traffic? Or is there any mention to the fact that he played all but one game this year outside?

    I'm sure Brady will be dropping off as a player as he gets older, but he did throw for close to 5000 yards and 30 something touchdowns. His QB rating was top notch and his completion percentage was damn good too. He was playing behind an offensive line that was learning their way as well. The guy seems to keep himself in really good shape - he still moves around the pocket really well. I could care less that he can't run for first downs...he is slow...always has been. For much of this seaon he was being discussed as the league MVP and we are talking about him falling off??

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Brady In Decline?

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

     he does need a better defense, better running game, overall better people around him to do so.



    This is so.

     

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