Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Physics. Show Physics's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    Look, a 2nd rounder for him is a steal. He's young, will have an immediate impact. There isn't a young WR I'd want more except Fitzgerald, and even then, you could argue that Marshall is better and more durable. You already know he can catch, deal with a Pats-like system, and that he can be doubled and catch balls from lesser QBs... He's only available *because* of his off-field issues. You'd never see anyone like him available otherwise.  

    As for those who'd say, 'hey, we didn't need an elite WR to win a SB'... completely worthless ... First, it is 2010, not 2004. Those 'nobodies' like 2000-2003 Troy Brown who were all-pro quality at old-school discounts just don't walk through that door every day and the NFL is more favorable to WRs in terms of passing rules now than then... Those 'nobodies' like Givens and Patten who catch 50 balls and 800 yards don't just 'stick around' at cheap prices when the market says they should get more, nor will they now... It is tougher and tougher to keep guys like that, ESPECIALLY when you win...  and you see what happens when you try to 'cheaply' replace guys like that...

    The way I see it, the Pats got very LUCKY that they were able to get the production they did out of the WRs they did that happened to be homegrown/cheaply drafted... the only way you can assure yourself of that sort of production is to go out there and spend the money to keep those guys or sign guys like Marshall who are more obvious slam dunk talents with plenty in the tank to still play for. 

    That is, we know better than to suggest that 'cheapy WRs'  is 'the way', as clearly guys like Jackson, Johnson, etc., showed that building through the draft is not perfect, either.  Simply put, what the Pats were able to do prior to 2007 was unique... they were able to 'cheaply' get 'above average to elite' guys ... Those opportunities just don't come around often, esp. in a league where a 3rd string QB can get multi-millions a year having never thrown an NFL pass and you have needs all across the board...

    Same with Marshall. He's everybit the WR as Fitzgerald, Colston, Wayne, and Johnson... only, he's younger than all of them... He's a given 100/1000 guy when he has nonelite QBs throwing to him and when he's sure to be double teamed. Yeah, he's an off-field nightmare it seems. But that's why he's available. It wouldn't happen any other way... and you aren't going to draft anyone 'better' than him in the 2nd round at his position or any other position, I'm fairly sure of that... You get him, you can focus more on rebuilding (cheaply through the draft) your D exclusively because he buys you that sort or luxury, esp. with Moss or Welker opposite him. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    Look, a 2nd rounder for him is a steal. He's young, will have an immediate impact. There isn't a young WR I'd want more except Fitzgerald, and even then, you could argue that Marshall is better and more durable. You already know he can catch, deal with a Pats-like system, and that he can be doubled and catch balls from lesser QBs... He's only available *because* of his off-field issues. You'd never see anyone like him available otherwise.   As for those who'd say, 'hey, we didn't need an elite WR to win a SB'... completely worthless ... First, it is 2010, not 2004. Those 'nobodies' like 2000-2003 Troy Brown who were all-pro quality at old-school discounts just don't walk through that door every day and the NFL is more favorable to WRs in terms of passing rules now than then... Those 'nobodies' like Givens and Patten who catch 50 balls and 800 yards don't just 'stick around' at cheap prices when the market says they should get more, nor will they now... It is tougher and tougher to keep guys like that, ESPECIALLY when you win...  and you see what happens when you try to 'cheaply' replace guys like that... The way I see it, the Pats got very LUCKY that they were able to get the production they did out of the WRs they did that happened to be homegrown/cheaply drafted... the only way you can assure yourself of that sort of production is to go out there and spend the money to keep those guys or sign guys like Marshall who are more obvious slam dunk talents with plenty in the tank to still play for.  That is, we know better than to suggest that 'cheapy WRs'  is 'the way', as clearly guys like Jackson, Johnson, etc., showed that building through the draft is not perfect, either.  Simply put, what the Pats were able to do prior to 2007 was unique... they were able to 'cheaply' get 'above average to elite' guys ... Those opportunities just don't come around often, esp. in a league where a 3rd string QB can get multi-millions a year having never thrown an NFL pass and you have needs all across the board... Same with Marshall. He's everybit the WR as Fitzgerald, Colston, Wayne, and Johnson... only, he's younger than all of them... He's a given 100/1000 guy when he has nonelite QBs throwing to him and when he's sure to be double teamed. Yeah, he's an off-field nightmare it seems. But that's why he's available. It wouldn't happen any other way... and you aren't going to draft anyone 'better' than him in the 2nd round at his position or any other position, I'm fairly sure of that... You get him, you can focus more on rebuilding (cheaply through the draft) your D exclusively because he buys you that sort or luxury, esp. with Moss or Welker opposite him. 
    Posted by Physics


    I think that you are missing a couple of things....you want an all star team and the only way that you can get that is to spend money (as you have stated), the problem with that is there is a CAP(though this season there isn't one, they will impliment one soon).  Second, with a CAP, you can only spend so much on the big talent then find a good core group of second tier players with good character and decent talent.

    Marshall does not fit in this system....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    If last year's Cutler Fiasco had anything to do with Belichick (and I think it might have), then I think young Josh would just as soon give Brandon to the Jets for a 5th rdr than give him to the pats for anything.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    If last year's Cutler Fiasco had anything to do with Belichick (and I think it might have), then I think young Josh would just as soon give Brandon to the Jets for a 5th rdr than give him to the pats for anything.
    Posted by underdoggg


    Huh?  The Pats and Denver have made trades since then.....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    Look, a 2nd rounder for him is a steal. He's young, will have an immediate impact. There isn't a young WR I'd want more except Fitzgerald, and even then, you could argue that Marshall is better and more durable. You already know he can catch, deal with a Pats-like system, and that he can be doubled and catch balls from lesser QBs... He's only available *because* of his off-field issues. You'd never see anyone like him available otherwise.   As for those who'd say, 'hey, we didn't need an elite WR to win a SB'... completely worthless ... First, it is 2010, not 2004. Those 'nobodies' like 2000-2003 Troy Brown who were all-pro quality at old-school discounts just don't walk through that door every day and the NFL is more favorable to WRs in terms of passing rules now than then... Those 'nobodies' like Givens and Patten who catch 50 balls and 800 yards don't just 'stick around' at cheap prices when the market says they should get more, nor will they now... It is tougher and tougher to keep guys like that, ESPECIALLY when you win...  and you see what happens when you try to 'cheaply' replace guys like that... The way I see it, the Pats got very LUCKY that they were able to get the production they did out of the WRs they did that happened to be homegrown/cheaply drafted... the only way you can assure yourself of that sort of production is to go out there and spend the money to keep those guys or sign guys like Marshall who are more obvious slam dunk talents with plenty in the tank to still play for.  That is, we know better than to suggest that 'cheapy WRs'  is 'the way', as clearly guys like Jackson, Johnson, etc., showed that building through the draft is not perfect, either.  Simply put, what the Pats were able to do prior to 2007 was unique... they were able to 'cheaply' get 'above average to elite' guys ... Those opportunities just don't come around often, esp. in a league where a 3rd string QB can get multi-millions a year having never thrown an NFL pass and you have needs all across the board... Same with Marshall. He's everybit the WR as Fitzgerald, Colston, Wayne, and Johnson... only, he's younger than all of them... He's a given 100/1000 guy when he has nonelite QBs throwing to him and when he's sure to be double teamed. Yeah, he's an off-field nightmare it seems. But that's why he's available. It wouldn't happen any other way... and you aren't going to draft anyone 'better' than him in the 2nd round at his position or any other position, I'm fairly sure of that... You get him, you can focus more on rebuilding (cheaply through the draft) your D exclusively because he buys you that sort or luxury, esp. with Moss or Welker opposite him. 
    Posted by Physics


    I'm glad you're not the owner, GM or coach of the Pats.  Ask me, this guy shouldn't even be in the league.  I don't care how talented he is.  And I know he's talented.  But I, like alot of others on this board put a higher value on talent plus character, not just talent alone.  Let the Jets take him.  I'd love to see them further disease themselves.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    For a #2 absolutely do it....Marshall is the type of talent they need.  Great hands, runs great routes, and he can stretch the field. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcrossDaPond. Show AcrossDaPond's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    Well, it depends on so many factors here is how I think it breaks down... If the Patriots want him they would be willing to use  the 22nd pick, so the fact they could use a second and Denver would accept it doesn't change much. The question here is are they going to let Moss walk after this season (likely I think), Where do they see Tate and any possible replacements they could draft in another year who will be available in the free agent market in 2011?  The "can't bring him in here and pay him because Welker would be upset" argument doesn't fly, and here is why... right now they are not even sure (Can't guarantee at all at this moment) that Welker will be anywhere near as good as he was pre injury. (Now I think he will be ok but probably not like he was till 2011) The only other issue left is do you think he can be brought in here and he will be a koolaid drinker? I think it is plausable that they can have the right mix of vets, (Brady in particular) that he will listen to. If it gets done don't expect it till the draft. I give it a 50% chance of it happening... I also got a feeling Kraft might have been sending a message to the fans by saying don't panic about the WR corps it is very early and a lot can change while also saying don't count out Tate which I agree with... Tate looks like he could be special.
    Posted by DaBlade


    You really think the salary issue doesn't apply?  What about how much money you can tie up in one position?  22 mil at one position will not consistently win in the NFL.  You need to supplant trades and free agents with young guys who don't make huge dough...

    Now if we all know Moss is on his way out next year we could decide to swallow the money at one position for one uncapped year.  HOWEVER, if this was the case how do we not go out and pay the small price for Boldin????  It was like a 3rd and 4th.  If this was the plan wouldn't they have pony'd up the pick for him instead of this headcase?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsGhost. Show RedsGhost's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    And this deserved 8 freakin exclamation marks why?

    !!!!!!!!!! oh and almost forgot !!!!!!!!!!

    And No, I wouldn't give up a 7th round pick for this cancer!!!!!!!!

    Like Sirpinochle said- " it's like a really hot b!tch with gonorrhea !!!!!!!!
    Have a good day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    Boldin doesn't stretch the field.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    No Marshall no winning season.
    That's the way I see it.
    Either they add Marshall or someone that good at the WR position or the team will tank next year.
    I like what BB is doing on defense and respect there are a lot of draft picks but they need a receiver now and Marshall is the only good FA receiver left.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    id put in a claim for one of our noncompensatory 7's...might even go as high as a 6...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    I've been saying this for over a month now, as long as B. Marshall wasn't signed right away - his price (meaning draft pick or picks) would drop as well! 

    If the Pats have a chance to get this guy for one of their 2nd's - they should atleast do their homework with this kid and see if they can work in one of those 'NO-NONSENSE' contract (like they did with Moss/Stallworth in 07).  One year deal:  no nonsense, gives brady a nice offensive toy while Welker is out.  Moss/Marshall would be deadly.  Then once Moss moves on after this yr, then you already have your #1 WR for next season (providing he works out of course)....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seanblaze. Show seanblaze's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    For all the people who say Brandon's a despicable person I would ask you how much worse he is than Big Ben, Plexiglass, Cromartie, Stallworth TO or any other? My point is that someone will take him and he'll be a difference maker for them. Sure we can pass on him and he'll gladly suit up in a Jets uniform and look forward to scoring 3-4 TDs a year against NE. I like character guys too. I like that NE has taken waives on bad apples in the past; but how many really "good" guys are there and how many of them play football? There's difference between having a team full of idiots or a few idiots. Show me a team that has NO idiots.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron


    Well said! The dude is a FRKN BEAST! BEAST!! He can line up in the slot. He can take the top off a D deep. He can probably be a big threat in the return game too. He is what 24? If you like Tom Brady & you want to see him here until he is 40 go get this kid. He can be groomed.

    Hey who knows? Maybe you put Marshall next to Moss & all of the sudden Randy is not getting doubled all day. All the sudden Moss says hey you know what? I like playing with this kid, he is making my job easier, i think i will stay in NE....

    If TB is gonna cook the dinner, you can atleast get him some top notch ingrediants!....
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcrossDaPond. Show AcrossDaPond's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    I've been saying this for over a month now, as long as B. Marshall wasn't signed right away - his price (meaning draft pick or picks) would drop as well!  If the Pats have a chance to get this guy for one of their 2nd's - they should atleast do their homework with this kid and see if they can work in one of those 'NO-NONSENSE' contract (like they did with Moss/Stallworth in 07).  One year deal:  no nonsense, gives brady a nice offensive toy while Welker is out.  Moss/Marshall would be deadly.  Then once Moss moves on after this yr, then you already have your #1 WR for next season (providing he works out of course)....
    Posted by NOISE


    This guys 26, not 31.  THE ONLY REASON THEY ARE GETTING RID OF HIM IS B/C HE IS GOING TO HOLD OUT UNLESS HE GETS PAID!!!  

    YOU CAN'T GIVE A ONE YEAR TENDER TO A GUY WHO ALREADY HAS A CONTRACT.  PEOPLE ACT LIKE HE WILL COME HERE WITH SOMETHING TO PROVE LIKE MOSS DID.  THAT IS NOT HIS MINDSET, HE IS LEAVING DENVER TO GET PAID AND ONLY TO GET PAID.  HE WOULD NEVER SIGN ONE OF THESE SHOW-ME CONTRACTS...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 123meg. Show 123meg's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    Front end the contract to pay him a lot this year and then Moss comes off the books next year.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seanblaze. Show seanblaze's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    Take a look @ him shredding the Indy D. Mostly from the slot. This kid is big, sure handed, & just plain nasty! We need to add another WR in a big way. There was a huge drop off after moss & welker & now welker is gone....Take a flier on Marshall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGsTxaJRndI
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    The REAL question:

     Could you do better than Brandon Marshall with a second round pick

    The Answer: No
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    Front end the contract to pay him a lot this year and then Moss comes off the books next year.  
    Posted by 123meg


    Can't...that is against the rules.....
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    The REAL question:  Could you do better than Brandon Marshall with a second round pick The Answer: No
    Posted by NickC1188


    a second round pick would not demand as much as Marshall would be demanding.....
    a second round pick can be used for a need of ours like say a defensive player or another TE or O-Line.......
    a second round pick is not as likely to be a womanizer  as Marshall.....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    No Marshall no winning season. That's the way I see it. Either they add Marshall or someone that good at the WR position or the team will tank next year. I like what BB is doing on defense and respect there are a lot of draft picks but they need a receiver now and Marshall is the only good FA receiver left.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron


    LOL!  Does he play defense????

    What are you people smoking?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    2nd round pick can you this year, a starting DE or starting OLB, starting Tackle, CB or TE. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Physics. Show Physics's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!:
    In Response to Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!! : I think that you are missing a couple of things....you want an all star team and the only way that you can get that is to spend money (as you have stated), the problem with that is there is a CAP(though this season there isn't one, they will impliment one soon).  Second, with a CAP, you can only spend so much on the big talent then find a good core group of second tier players with good character and decent talent. Marshall does not fit in this system....
    Posted by m1021us



    Except, we do have an 'elite guy' coming off the books in one Randy Moss... so what reason is there to believe Marshall cannot just slide into the salary spot occupied by Moss... and no, I don't think Moss is done, but I really see him as only having 3 years left in the tank, probably 2 at elite level if you look at the history or WRs... with Marshall, he isn't even in the prime years for most WRs... But won't both be asking essentially for the same contract? So who would you rather have? The 'elite' guy who knows your system, but has 3 years left... or the young elite guy who has more upside down the line, but has off-field issues.... To me, I say it is business and business means getting younger and winning... I think the long-term chances of that are better with Marshall, taking nothing away from what I think Moss can still do this year and next.

    The point is, sure, Marshall likely means that you lose something someplace else. But the same is true for any 'elite' guy. If he's good enough, you can pay him that and you assume his presence makes up for lacking something someplace else. My point is, Marshall is a TOP 5 WR, possibly the BEST WR in the NFL, and certainly the BEST YOUNG WR not named Fitzgerald. That is, at his age versus talent, he's better than anyone else in the NFL at his postion. Find me anyone else not named Fitzgerald that is even that close who won't ask for a similar amount and who you wouldn't think was worth it... It is what it is. If this was Larry Fitzgerald, we wouldn't even be having this discussion..  It just woulnd't be for a 2nd rounder, either. 

    I'd much rather him on my roster as a weapon for the best player, Tom Brady, who really still is the 'current' and near future of this team, than foolishly let the team let a guy like Moss walk away and not be able to replace him, Welker being unknown, and our law firm of a RB situation take over and see how TB responds. I have more confidence in Belichick in dealing with a young defense than I do in Tom Brady and a makeshift 'everyone else without an elite WR' getting the job done on offense... esp., if Welker is gimpy, too. I sometime wonder how this offense even ran without Welker, but then again, it is more as a result that we had Troy Brown and guys like that who fit in before, too...

    Again, you can talk about the 'nobodies' we had in the early part of the 2000s as if that is true, but the reality is that Givens/Patten/Brown/Branch, etc. were not just some group of no-talent fill-ins, either... and they all pretty much left for more money and were not well-replaced. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    The Patriots are not going to send Moss packing unless he developes alligator arms this year when he is injury free,as for Marshall you think they could trade Thomas for him straight up? maybe toss in a 7th round pick!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from radosox. Show radosox's posts

    Re: Brandon Marshal could be had for a 2nd!!!!!!!!

    As a Pats fan living in Colorado the past 20+ years.  This guy is a stud.  One thing that Josh McD has taught him is that the head Coach calls the shots.  From what we have read and seen in the local news, Brandon Marshall has turned things around in his personal life.  He has matured. It is just time for him to move on and get out of Denver. (too many bad memories off the field)  He would be a great addition to the Pats.  He is the prototype possession receiver that would open up the deep stuff for Moss and the underneath stuff for Welker.
     

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