Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well for the expectations on this board that BB should be hitting on All-Pro players with every pick, yes, the pick wasn't up to snuff.

    But if you're living in reality, he was a good player for them on the field and worth the Rd 2 selection.  He was a quality, starting caliber NFL inside backer that was a top level player vs. the run and brought a physical edge/toughness to the position.

    But hey, keep living in f/riggin fantasy land.

    [/QUOTE]

    Generally I agree MB, but the point that leads to failure as a pick for me is he didn't last past his rook contract. A personality conflict should have been known prior to drafting the kid (really has he changed since his scouting report?). If you aren't signing your high draft picks past their rook contracts and on average it takes 1-2 years for them to develop into reliable starters. In Spikes case I'd say it took 1.5 years. So I would say 2.5yrs of starting service and being benched for a AFCCG isn't enough return for a 2nd round pick. What good is a pick if you have to replace them every 4 years and it takes 1-2 years to develop? That means you have to spend picks at the same position every 2 years and since they all won't work out it's not worth the investment. Spikes wasn't a bust by anymeans but I do think he was a bad pick because in the end the 2.5yrs of starting service didn't justify the 2nd round pick.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why sign him past his rookie contract for 3 times the amount of money and you already drafted a capable replacement.  We can't start labeling guys as failures because we dont sign them to new big money deals. BB only locks up core players, a philosophy that has never failed him until one of them went on a murdering spree. Brady, Seymour, Light, Wilfork, Mayo, Mankins, Gronk, and Volmer(unless you think Volmer was mistake because you knew he would get his leg rolled up on and broken).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    Spikes was solid against the run.

    Spikes was poor against the pass.

    Spikes would not show up for optional off-season work outs.

    Spikes did not like BB and BB did not like BS.

    Had his moments but over all it did not work out here.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Sure, sure, Bustchise. Everyone wanted Penn State LBS the last 20 years for their teams.

    Lavarr Arrington says hello. lol

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What the he11 does it matter what school he went to? He was a great player and I liked his game. My god. Name some UF linebackers over the last decade or so, please. Andra Davis? Michael Peterson? Channing Crowder? Jermaine Cunningham? LOL nice try but you fail again.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Sure, sure, Bustchise. Everyone wanted Penn State LBS the last 20 years for their teams.

    Lavarr Arrington says hello. lol

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey, have you heard of any of these guys? Probably not because you don't watch football.

    Tamba Hali, Paul Posluzny, Sean Lee, NoVorro Bowman?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Spikes was solid against the run.

    Spikes was poor against the pass.

    Spikes would not show up for optional off-season work outs.

    Spikes did not like BB and BB did not like BS.

    Had his moments but over all it did not work out here.

    [/QUOTE]

    Spikes was phenomenal agsinst the run.

    BB seems like a pretty smart guy and probably didn't draft Spikes to cover the Dallas Clarks of the world. 

    You don't know if spikes and BB liked each other and even if they didn't,  it doesn't matter as they are professionals....look at WW and BB, made it work for 6 years and come to find out they didn't like each other at all.

    Spikes worked out about as well as could be expected of a 2 down player. Think Ted Johnson. Good pick, and he will make another team happy when they snap him up in FA.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Spikes was solid against the run.

    Spikes was poor against the pass.

    Spikes would not show up for optional off-season work outs.

    Spikes did not like BB and BB did not like BS.

    Had his moments but over all it did not work out here.

    [/QUOTE]

    Spikes was phenomenal agsinst the run.

    BB seems like a pretty smart guy and probably didn't draft Spikes to cover the Dallas Clarks of the world. 

    You don't know if spikes and BB liked each other and even if they didn't,  it doesn't matter as they are professionals....look at WW and BB, made it work for 6 years and come to find out they didn't like each other at all.

    Spikes worked out about as well as could be expected of a 2 down player. Think Ted Johnson. Good pick, and he will make another team happy when they snap him up in FA.

    [/QUOTE]


    The way Spikes season ended tells you all you need to know.....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well for the expectations on this board that BB should be hitting on All-Pro players with every pick, yes, the pick wasn't up to snuff.

    But if you're living in reality, he was a good player for them on the field and worth the Rd 2 selection.  He was a quality, starting caliber NFL inside backer that was a top level player vs. the run and brought a physical edge/toughness to the position.

    But hey, keep living in f/riggin fantasy land.

    [/QUOTE]

    Generally I agree MB, but the point that leads to failure as a pick for me is he didn't last past his rook contract. A personality conflict should have been known prior to drafting the kid (really has he changed since his scouting report?). If you aren't signing your high draft picks past their rook contracts and on average it takes 1-2 years for them to develop into reliable starters. In Spikes case I'd say it took 1.5 years. So I would say 2.5yrs of starting service and being benched for a AFCCG isn't enough return for a 2nd round pick. What good is a pick if you have to replace them every 4 years and it takes 1-2 years to develop? That means you have to spend picks at the same position every 2 years and since they all won't work out it's not worth the investment. Spikes wasn't a bust by anymeans but I do think he was a bad pick because in the end the 2.5yrs of starting service didn't justify the 2nd round pick.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why sign him past his rookie contract for 3 times the amount of money and you already drafted a capable replacement.  We can't start labeling guys as failures because we dont sign them to new big money deals. BB only locks up core players, a philosophy that has never failed him until one of them went on a murdering spree. Brady, Seymour, Light, Wilfork, Mayo, Mankins, Gronk, and Volmer(unless you think Volmer was mistake because you knew he would get his leg rolled up on and broken).

    [/QUOTE]

    Because that's not sustainable. You have 25 possible starting positions to fill, not including backups. If it takes on average 2-3 years to develop (counting rounds 1-7) and the rook contract last 4 years you would need to draft a new player at that positoin every 2 years. That means at best you replace 14 of the possible 25 starters IF you hit on every pick you make. Of course you will never hit on every pick and at most you typically hit on 1-2 starters and a small number of complimentary pieces between the rest and UDFA. So then you have to suppliment it with FA's who will either be less talented then the guys you are replacing (because they will cost less) or they will cost just as much as the guys you are replacing. Of course as we've seen not all FA's are created equal and most don't seem to fit the system. So in the end you might end up spending more on FA's to replace someone you know who has fit the system.

    Replacing draft picks with other draft picks instead of resigning them to save money will not work in the end because the numbers are too large to replace so you must be able to retain at least half the picks you hit on to keep the system going or you end up spending on FA's or you tend to get less quality players to just fill out rosters. Not to mention you will never hit on every draft pick so what if Collins falls into the sophmore slump or takes a Butler type of turn. Now you are stuck with no one to turn to. How many resources and money was spent replacing Branch, Law, Samuel, Milloy, Seymour? More then what it would have to retained them

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick


    That is just crazy talk eng. 1st off law, seymour and milloy were all the highest paid players at their positions. Repeat. The Pats made them the highest paid players in the nfl at their positions. So, we should have what exactly? Broke the bank a 3rd time for each of them....they were all out of the league a few years after we let them walk(or close to it in Lawyers case)

    Your hatred of BB's system blinds you my friend. Signing those guys were not even an option. Branch is another bad example,  as he literally fell off the earth after he went to another good team with a good QB.The only guy you can make a case for is the one dimensional corner asante who is absolutely not a Belichick(the coach) type player.  No run support and a me first attitude.  It's like some of you guys have not even paid attention to BB's style and how he built SB teams. 

    I know we have been over this, and I respect the heck out of you as your a knowledgeable fan, but I completely disagree with your post. Signing, or re signing half of your draft picks to long term deals isn't even a conceivable notion for most teams. Well at least not for as long as BB has been at it, because all of the other GM's wouldn't have the chance to re sign half their picks over 13 years, as they have all been fired!

    When you have to commit a quarter of the cap to the QB position for 10 plus years you cannot just re sign half of your draft picks to big deals. You certainly cannot sign stud players on the back couple holes of their careers to a 3rd big contract! Ughhhhhh.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Spikes was solid against the run.

    Spikes was poor against the pass.

    Spikes would not show up for optional off-season work outs.

    Spikes did not like BB and BB did not like BS.

    Had his moments but over all it did not work out here.

    [/QUOTE]

    Spikes was phenomenal agsinst the run.

    BB seems like a pretty smart guy and probably didn't draft Spikes to cover the Dallas Clarks of the world. 

    You don't know if spikes and BB liked each other and even if they didn't,  it doesn't matter as they are professionals....look at WW and BB, made it work for 6 years and come to find out they didn't like each other at all.

    Spikes worked out about as well as could be expected of a 2 down player. Think Ted Johnson. Good pick, and he will make another team happy when they snap him up in FA.

    [/QUOTE]


    The way Spikes season ended tells you all you need to know.....

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree spikes ended badly, but it takes nothing away from his on field performance for 4 years of contributing to a team that went to 3 straight afc championships during that time.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bustify. Show Bustify's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    Spikes was an ok pick...could have been better but could have been worse. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:


    That is just crazy talk eng. 1st off law, seymour and milloy were all the highest paid players at their positions. Repeat. The Pats made them the highest paid players in the nfl at their positions. So, we should have what exactly? Broke the bank a 3rd time for each of them....they were all out of the league a few years after we let them walk(or close to it in Lawyers case)

    Your hatred of BB's system blinds you my friend. Signing those guys were not even an option. Branch is another bad example,  as he literally fell off the earth after he went to another good team with a good QB.The only guy you can make a case for is the one dimensional corner asante who is absolutely not a Belichick(the coach) type player.  No run support and a me first attitude.  It's like some of you guys have not even paid attention to BB's style and how he built SB teams. 

    I know we have been over this, and I respect the heck out of you as your a knowledgeable fan, but I completely disagree with your post. Signing, or re signing half of your draft picks to long term deals isn't even a conceivable notion for most teams. Well at least not for as long as BB has been at it, because all of the other GM's wouldn't have the chance to re sign half their picks over 13 years, as they have all been fired!

    When you have to commit a quarter of the cap to the QB position for 10 plus years you cannot just re sign half of your draft picks to big deals. You certainly cannot sign stud players on the back couple holes of their careers to a 3rd big contract! Ughhhhhh.

    And that's the point you are replacing the best at their positions with rooks that can't carry their jocks at that point in their career and maybe not until 2-3yrs into their contract if ever and you think you can turn over these players for cheaper every 4 years? Those types of talent got us over the hump and won us 3 SB's. When they left and we went to the revolving door draft system suddenly we were outclasses in the playoffs and most of the loses it was clear who had the talent to compete and who didn't.

    I said you have to keep half the players you hit on. If you hit on 4-5 (starters or role players) you need to keep half of them every year, that is true. If you get 1 player past his rook contract to retain how are you suppose to keep a team together True? It's not possible! Think about it. The average career in the NFL is what 3 years. Good starters might be what 7?

    If you get 4-5 workable players (not starters just workable players) every draft and only keep 1 that means every 4 years you have 16-20 players with only 4 staying. That means you are turning over half your team via FA and new draft picks every 4 years! How do you honestly expect to turn that many players over every 4 years? You are essentially replacing 50% of your team with rooks that need time to develop or vets that won't stick around because of age on s h o r t term deals.

    I agree backup positions you can do that. You can always find Love's, or Deadricks, or Arringtons whenever you want but you can't do that with starters. Again if there are 22 starters on O and D and if you are turning over every 4 years that means you have to find 5 new starters every year. Do you know any team in the history of the NFL that finds 5 new starters every year in the draft? It's not sustainable, the numbers are right there. Just from the average lifetime of an NFL player you need to average 2-3 players in the draft that you keep past their rook contracts just to keep the starting roster full. 

    I am not saying you need to resign every player but when you draft 12 and only 1 makes it past their rook contract and they are injury prone year in and year out then yes I say that's a failed draft.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    I love some of the responses here.  One suggests that I'm not a Pats fan.  Another suggests I'm not a football fan.  Another suggests that I believe every pick Belichick makes needs to be a starter for years to come.  Another tells me that I have read too much of a particular writer.

    And one dope thinks this is a hockey conversation.

    Drafted in the second, average to above average results, personality issues, probably not going to return after rookie contract.  Back to the drawing board. 

    Bad pick.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    I thought it was a bad pick at the time - I didn't think a guy who ran a 4.9 was going to be able to play linebacker in the middle in the NFL - I was wrong, he turned out pretty good. Instinctive player, with a attitude, but this is not a guy you can't live without...and this is not a guy who can cover or depend on for leadership. I thought he came in out of shape, and I was not happy he decided to stay in Florida to "work on his coverage skills"...and then came back fat and not able to cover.

    Good bye Spikes, you will not be missed, but at least you weren't another second round bust.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I love some of the responses here.  One suggests that I'm not a Pats fan.  Another suggests I'm not a football fan.  Another suggests that I believe every pick Belichick makes needs to be a starter for years to come.  Another tells me that I have read too much of a particular writer.

    And one dope thinks this is a hockey conversation.

    Drafted in the second, average to above average results, personality issues, probably not going to return after rookie contract.  Back to the drawing board. 

    Bad pick.

    [/QUOTE]

    What if he doesn't return because he is overpaid for being a slightly above average 2 down linebacker?  Still a bad pick?  The market may disagree with you that he isn't talented and not worth big money.  In BB's eyes, he likely isn't, but that still doesn't make it a bad pick.   

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Belichick Haiku:

     

    Average on the field

    Personality issues

    Another bad pick

    [/QUOTE]

    This is what I don't like about the "today" crowd.  At the time it was a great pick.  The Pats were pretty shallow at LB.  Since then the Pats have picked up Hightower who likes it in the middle better and Collins who looks to be a steal on the outside.  This leaves Spikes out.  He'll be playing in the NFL for a while which means no bust either.  With Mayo, Hightower and Collins the Pats LB corp is very young and solid now.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MileHighMike. Show MileHighMike's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Belichick Haiku:

     

    Average on the field

    Personality issues

    Another bad pick

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, he didn't murder anyone.  There's that.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MileHighMike. Show MileHighMike's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    your obviously reading to much Peter King. The haiku, and the increased trolling give it away.

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think I've ever read anything by Peter King.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, sure, Handy. You've never read anything be King. The board really believes you. lmao

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "never read anything be king"?  what does that even mean?  You need to take tomorrow off from posting all day and go to the local CC and immediately enroll in an ESL class.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MileHighMike. Show MileHighMike's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Prediction...   He signs with Jets and makes the pro bowl.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're predictions are right up there with Queenie's.  That is, they blow.  Was that you who predicted that the Jets wouldn't win more than 4 games this year?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well for the expectations on this board that BB should be hitting on All-Pro players with every pick, yes, the pick wasn't up to snuff.

    But if you're living in reality, he was a good player for them on the field and worth the Rd 2 selection.  He was a quality, starting caliber NFL inside backer that was a top level player vs. the run and brought a physical edge/toughness to the position.

    But hey, keep living in f/riggin fantasy land.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tg19pats. Show tg19pats's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    Overall, I liked Spikes. I thought he was an ideal run stuffing line backer with an attitude that our defense really needed. I believe withbhightower and mayo plus a full off season formCollins spikes will not be missed. Min my opinion I would say it was dog good, solid draft pick. 

    One more thing, the majority of this discussion has been very entertaining. I love when people talk football and discuss the pros and cons of patriot players. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and when they remain football based this site is good to read. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    "an attitude"

    not "a attitude", Mr White Trash/low brow.

    How can you seriously be a teacher?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Crickets to my question regarding UF linebackers and the list of productive PSU LBs I posted after your snarky bs response. lol what else is new?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ANumber1Roy. Show ANumber1Roy's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    Spikes was a good draft pick for his role as a run stopping two down LB. He's actually one of the few good high draft picks Belicheck has made recently the past 5 years.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Brandon Spikes - Typical Draft Pick

    yeah, I am not getting this post. The PAts pick a guy in the 2nd round that had a first round grade but slipped due to off the field issues. The guy has shown to be very good against the run, but deficient against the pass, yet the Pats are in sub defense 45-55% of the time, some games even more so, taking him off the field.

     

     

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