Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    why start a whole new thread? just add it to the existing draft thread
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    Jordan is a little small for 3-4 DE and too big for 3-4 OLB.  I don't think he fits.

    Houston, on the other hand, appears to be a good option for a 3-4 OLB.

    I'd rather they go Kerrigan (if at 17) or someone like a Houston at 17 if they can get a Phil Taylor type at #28.


    Phil Taylor:

    Posted at 2:30 PM ET, 01/26/2011

    Baylor's Phil Taylor is biggest man on campus

    By Rick Maese

    It shouldn't surprise anyone if the Redskins find a way to field at least two -- and maybe three -- new starting defensive linemen next season. There are plenty of prospects available in the draft and one of the more intriguing players competing here in Mobile, Ala., at the Senior Bowl is Baylor's Phil Taylor.

    Following practice Tuesday, Taylor said he feels he can play as either a nose tackle or a three-technique defensive tackle, but pro scouts and coaches are definitely looking at a guy with his thick frame as a nose.

    "I played both this year," said Taylor. "I played mostly the one-technique. But three or the one -- it's not a big deal for me. ...Wherever they want to put me, I'll play it."

    To no one's surprise, Taylor weighed in Monday as the heaviest player for Saturday's Senior Bowl. He stands 6-foot-3 1/2 inches tall and weighs 337 pounds. He's actually lost about 30 pounds since his junior season and he's apparently not finished.

    "I want to lose another five to 10 pounds," he said.

    Taylor attended Gwynn Park High in Clinton, Md., and started his career at Penn State under defensive line coach Larry Johnson Sr.

    He said he hopes to report to the NFL Scouting Combine next month around 330 pounds and faster than ever. To prepare, he's been working out at Velocity Sports in Naples, Fla.

    Taylor is focusing mostly on draft preparation right now -- speedwork, weights, etc. -- but says when he's on the field, he feels stopping the run is one of his strengths. Playing for the South team, which is being coached by the Buffalo Bills' staff, Taylor has looked strong so far in practices, moving not just the center but the entire interior line with ease.



    Maybe even Heyward at #28 if he's there.     

    At the end of it all, it's going to come down to which player fits the intangible list at DT/DE and OLB in the Pats mold.

    Character, intelligence, coachability, etc.  These need to be there for NE to select a player in Round 1.

    We can speculate all day. Many OLBs are possible, some not so much and even though many say there are many 3-4 DEs in this draft, I don't necessarily see that.

    Some have size and could add some bulk, but 3-4 DE and 3-4 OLB in NE's system aren't as attractive when compared to other systems.

    These choices will come down to character and drive more so than college career/stats.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolltide1963. Show rolltide1963's posts

    I believe that Akeem Ayers - UCLA provides to be a bit more versatile than Houston

    In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston:
    [QUOTE]I agree with Jordan but odds are Houston isn't going to make it to 28. A lot of mocks having him going in the early 20's. Best option at this point for a rush 3-4 OLB at 28 currently appears to be Sam Acho. He had a good Senior Bowl and that's really helping his stock.
    Posted by Prophet76[/QUOTE]


    Justin Houston - he has the better instincts - that is something that is hard to coach.  so, he is a solid choice.  Although, Ayers provides to be more versatile/athletic. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    Ayers is a great athlete, but again I am not sure he fits.  He doesn't seem to be great against the run.

    The key is still lock down the edges. Cunningham was solid here as a rookie, TBC is average at it, but NE still needs to get an OLB who can be great agains the run with bulk AND get to the passer.

    We'll likely never see a McGinest peak level OLB here, but something close would be nice.

    It needs to be both because the edge run D is the key to setting up those 3rd and 7s, etc.

    It's absolutely tempting to see a Von Miller type or one of those, but there is no way a undersized player out college can leap into a 3-4 in the NFL.

    I'd add Ayers to this sort of a mix.   If he dropped down to #28 or #33, then yeah, maybe you grab him and take the risk that he can play the run.  He's athletic, but you need bulk at OLB in this 3-4.

    From what I have seen, I agree on Houston being a candidate for run ability and pass rushing.  From there, it's the Pats intangibles (intelligence, character, drive, etc).

    I'd be happy with something like this:

    1. Re-sign Light to a 2 year deal.

    2. 17 - Justin Houston OLB
    3. 28 - Phil Taylor DE
    4. 33 - Pouncey - Guard (Groom him for possible Center in 2012)

    5. Tag Mankins and then trade him for a 2nd rd pick.



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wildwillis. Show Wildwillis's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    Mankins would draw a first, Ithink they should pay the man!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    I dont know if Mankins gets us a first, but I agree if possible we should sign him
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    Mankins won't draw a 1st rd at his price point.  He'd be worth a 1st if he wasn't crazy.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    BBReigns - I like Taylor but I don't like the idea of moving either Wilfork or Taylor to the end position any time soon. Although, BB moved Wilfork to DE on occasion I think it was out of pure necessiaty not because of desire. When it comes to DE's I want someone a little quicker that can set the edge, drop into a spy zone, or rush the passer and I don't think either Taylor or Wilfork are right for that. In the same area look for Wilkerson to be taken. He's 30lbs lighter then Taylor but is also quicker and has those skills I listed. Though I agree Taylor could do some major damage I'd rather have Wilfork with a rotation of G Warren, T Warren, and Wilkerson.

    But interesting thing about the article is Was could be on the look out for him in the early secon 2nd late 1st. If they get nervous that someone between us at #33 or #28 and them at #41 I could see them tossing us #41 and a 2nd next year to move up to #33 or #41 and their 1st next year to get up to #28. Don't forget Was has no 3rd or 4th pick so essentially their 1st and 2nd have to be great picks. Honestly I would take either of those trades and run.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    I think maybe the misconception with Taylor is people have him pegged as a NT.  I can see that projection, but I see him more as a DE in a 3-4 or a true DT in a 3-4. 

    I see him more as a DE a la Seymour (not saying he is that kind of talent), who played DT in college in a 4-3 and can be just a large mass that is tough to move off the edge, helping the OLB keep and end runs from getting outside. 

    And also obviously getting a push into the gap on passing downs.

    Taylor appears to be a more talented Ron Brace. 

    If they bring both Warrens back and they can keep Brace and work in a Phil Taylor type, that's a pretty large front 3.

    As for fleecing a desperate Dan Snyder, I am all for it. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston:
    [QUOTE]I think maybe the misconception with Taylor is people have him pegged as a NT.  I can see that projection, but I see him more as a DE in a 3-4 or a true DT in a 3-4.  I see him more as a DE a la Seymour (not saying he is that kind of talent), who played DT in college in a 4-3 and can be just a large mass that is tough to move off the edge, helping the OLB keep and end runs from getting outside.  And also obviously getting a push into the gap on passing downs. Taylor appears to be a more talented Ron Brace.  If they bring both Warrens back and they can keep Brace and work in a Phil Taylor type, that's a pretty large front 3. As for fleecing a desperate Dan Snyder, I am all for it. 
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    The reason most picture him as a DT or NT more then a DE is because he runs in the lower 5.3's. When Seymour came out he was 6'6" 300lb running mid 4.9's. That's the huge difference between Seymour and Taylor is that speed. I just don't think with that speed that Taylor could be affective on the outside end. He'd be great as a DT in a 43, a NT in a 34, or moved outside on specially designed blizt packages but as a full time DE teams would just run outside the tackles on him and he'd never be able to keep up with the RB. the person who sets the edge doesn't have to be overwhelming fast but they do have to be faster then he is. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    Is it just me, or does Justin Houston look more like 6'2" 250, as opposed to 6'3" 258. The guy simply doesn't look that big to me. Maybe it's because he's wearing number 42, and not a typical OLB number...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston : The reason most picture him as a DT or NT more then a DE is because he runs in the lower 5.3's. When Seymour came out he was 6'6" 300lb running mid 4.9's. That's the huge difference between Seymour and Taylor is that speed. I just don't think with that speed that Taylor could be affective on the outside end. He'd be great as a DT in a 43, a NT in a 34, or moved outside on specially designed blizt packages but as a full time DE teams would just run outside the tackles on him and he'd never be able to keep up with the RB. the person who sets the edge doesn't have to be overwhelming fast but they do have to be faster then he is. 
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Ok, good point.

    Any idea what Brace ran?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston : The reason most picture him as a DT or NT more then a DE is because he runs in the lower 5.3's. When Seymour came out he was 6'6" 300lb running mid 4.9's. That's the huge difference between Seymour and Taylor is that speed. I just don't think with that speed that Taylor could be affective on the outside end. He'd be great as a DT in a 43, a NT in a 34, or moved outside on specially designed blizt packages but as a full time DE teams would just run outside the tackles on him and he'd never be able to keep up with the RB. the person who sets the edge doesn't have to be overwhelming fast but they do have to be faster then he is. 
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Agree completely with this post. Taylor is best suited to play 4-3 DT, or 3-4 NT.
    To Russ's question...Brace ran a 5.48...Essentially Brace and Taylor are very similar sizes (Brace at 6'3", 330, Taylor at 6'4", 337 or so). This is another reason I don't like Brace on the outside playing 3-4 DE. He's just not fast enough...better suited to spell Wilfork and play on a 4 man line than line up as a 3-4 DE.
    Wilkerson is a guy I would feel very comfortable with. He is more akin to Sey in terms of size and speed. He has the wingspan and length we need in a 3-4 DE and is quick enough.

    This is why 17 and 28 are so intriguing. There is going to be quality at both spots, so the question is do we take a OLB, DE, OT or G at those spots and which comes first?
    For 3-4 OLB, I like Houston above much of the rest mentioned. I think he plays a nice compliment to Cunningham and our edges should be sealed nicely. He is not makin it to 28, so if we want him, we move up or take him at 17. I have seen him projected as high as 15 or so, so 17 is not out of the question. Wilkerson on the other hand should be had at 28 if we want him. Then 33 we have a ton of leverage there. We can see who dropped out of the first that we think is valuable and take him (we'll get a whole day to decide), or just trade it away as PatEng suggests to Washington which I think is a good trade partner based on how they have to repair their DL.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston : Ok, good point. Any idea what Brace ran?
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Brace ran 5.52 at the combine. With Brace you can see it on the field. When they run the A or B gaps between him and Wilfork no one got through but when they hit the C-E gaps Brace couldn't catch the runner and it left the OLB 1 on 1. It also showed in Brace rushing. Brace can push the G/T's in but when the QB left the pocket Brace looked like a fat kid chasing a ice cream truck. Just not a pretty sight
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Cameron Jordan & Justin Houston

    True. 

    I guess it shows how tough it is to secure a perfect 3-4 DE. 
     

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