Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Bill Belicheck.


    Every player on the team probably feels they could have done more to contribute but the fact is, they didnt. The coaches job is to put the players in positon to make plays.

    1.) After your field position was established at the 4 yard line, why didnt B.B. overide the call that was a playaction, 7 step drop into the endzone with 3 long developing routes?

    2.) Why did he play the defensive tackles out wide closer to the ends? I assume its because he wanted the ends to get one on one matchups. It looked ok the first drive. After that, the Giants caught on and gashed us while double teaming Wilfork.

    3.) When we were getting gashed(because we had to stay in cover 2) B.B. decided to take out Deaderick and put in Ellis to better the run defense. Cant say if it worked because the Giants were passing too but taking out Deaderick ensured he wouldnt get any more sacks. Ellis never sniffed Eli

    4.) Above I pointed a clear change in the defense as a result of not being able to stop the run that made us less effective in rushing the passer.

    4.) 12 men on the field on defense!?!?  This is what happens when you tell your CB to keep switching back from CB to Safety. eventually they are gonna get confused. Molden thought he was in at Cb, but it was someone else.

    5.) Knowing how the Giants covered the middle of the field, how many passes were called outside the hash marks??  2, one to Deion and one to Ocho?!  Does Ocho have a one catch limit that he cant get any more balls thrown his way?

    6.) Run the ball with your Lead Back. I get why Danny was in there for the passing game but he got too many carries and did nothing with it. This falls on B.B., not Brady..ahem, Rusty.

    7.) Coach Ferrel said he had a hard time adjusting when we went no huddle and was surpised that we didnt run that offense more.( I think they were scared to go 3 and out, and already behind in T.O.P. so they backed off)

    8.) After contuining to give up runs, we never brought a safety down in the box for fear of getting burnt over the top. I get it, but it didnt help with our offense sitting on the sideline all night.

    9.) B.B. challened the Manningham catch which was clearly a catch with the first replay showing both feet hit the ground. Could have used the extra T.O.

    10.) A coaching staff of B.B., Obie, Joshy, Matty P should not be outcoached by Coughlin, Ferrel and McBride.


    They had a few plays where things were going good and then resorted back the stale playcalling we've been accustomed to and lost the game


    On 3rd and 11 after the wes drop, Brady had Edleman, branch, Ocho and Nate Soldier on the field as recieving options. Really?  Those are the guys you count on in the clutch? Why not go back to Wes again and let him make up for it like most Qb's do?  Well, he doesnt call in the personell.

    I am not mad about the loss as i saw a team in the giants who were destined to win.

    I believe even is Wes makes the catch, something else may have happened. We were that unlucky that night. It wasnt in the cards. Brady n Wes failed on routine play and Eli and Manningham executed a great play. Game Over


    Now, Why is it that B.B. seems to be always outcoached in big games as of late and his gameplans leave you scratching your head???

    Anybody?  oK Rusty has his hand up......anyone else....lol
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    What a load of tosh.

    People here have been clamoring for Belichick to delegate his workload more, and allow others to be in a position of power. But then when something goes wrong, the blame falls back on Belichick. O'Brien called the first offensive play of the game, and Belichick had confidence in his offensive coordinator. Does that make him to blame? Load of hypocritical trash.

    I mean really, I don't have the time to respond to most of this, but it's mostly baseless in my opinion.

    You have multiple qualms with the offensive play-calling. That should be on O'Brien. 

    You complain about Ellis playing. When he was inserted into the game, we held them scoreless from early in the 2nd quarter until midway through the 3rd quarter. 

    As I said, this is mostly baseless. When the game was on the line, the Giants' players made incredible plays, while the Patriots' players didn't. That's that, game over, move on. There's another season and we're in a great position to get back to the Super Bowl.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    I agree Vertigo.

    What I am saying is that the loss ultimately falls on him.

    If he is a genuis when he wins, he will take the brunt of the blame if they lose.

    I am not really saying  its all his fault because the players are on the field. I am saying this was his project, his gameplan, etc

    B.B. can go to O'bie at any point in the game and suggest how he wants to attack. Everyone knows this. If he wants to run up the middle , he will tell Obie to do so, if he wants to throw it, he will say so and where to throw it too.

    This is how it works, its not debatable as we all seen it on t.v
    Did you watch Inside the NFL last night??


    B.B. has the last say. He wants it that way so he doesnt need you giving him a pass, I bet if you asked him who was responsible he would say himself. Thats all.

    This just fuels the spygate idiots to come here and talk more smack. I dont buy into it, but I feel B.B. has a black cloud over his head in "Goodells" NFL for that stupid policy misunderstanding and now he is the brunt of their jokes. Everyone wanted us to lose.

    The NFL is just another one of Illuminati's game they control and it was on display at halftime with all the symbolism and rituals that "maddona" was part of. The NFL is all about Money.  B.B. is in the doghouse now and wont win as long as Goodell is running this shyt. A new York Guy. This is all my crazy opinion of course.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CASox. Show CASox's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Bill Belicheck. Every player on the team probably feels they could have done more to contribute but the fact is, they didnt. The coaches job is to put the players in positon to make plays. 1.) After your field position was established at the 4 yard line, why didnt B.B. overide the call that was a playaction, 7 step drop into the endzone with 3 long developing routes? 2.) Why did he play the defensive tackles out wide closer to the ends? I assume its because he wanted the ends to get one on one matchups. It looked ok the first drive. After that, the Giants caught on and gashed us while double teaming Wilfork. 3.) When we were getting gashed(because we had to stay in cover 2) B.B. decided to take out Deaderick and put in Ellis to better the run defense. Cant say if it worked because the Giants were passing too but taking out Deaderick ensured he wouldnt get any more sacks. Ellis never sniffed Eli 4.) Above I pointed a clear change in the defense as a result of not being able to stop the run that made us less effective in rushing the passer. 4.) 12 men on the field on defense!?!?  This is what happens when you tell your CB to keep switching back from CB to Safety. eventually they are gonna get confused. Molden thought he was in at Cb, but it was someone else. 5.) Knowing how the Giants covered the middle of the field, how many passes were called outside the hash marks??  2, one to Deion and one to Ocho?!  Does Ocho have a one catch limit that he cant get any more balls thrown his way? 6.) Run the ball with your Lead Back. I get why Danny was in there for the passing game but he got too many carries and did nothing with it. This falls on B.B., not Brady..ahem, Rusty. 7.) Coach Ferrel said he had a hard time adjusting when we went no huddle and was surpised that we didnt run that offense more.( I think they were scared to go 3 and out, and already behind in T.O.P. so they backed off) 8.) After contuining to give up runs, we never brought a safety down in the box for fear of getting burnt over the top. I get it, but it didnt help with our offense sitting on the sideline all night. 9.) B.B. challened the Manningham catch which was clearly a catch with the first replay showing both feet hit the ground. Could have used the extra T.O. 10.) A coaching staff of B.B., Obie, Joshy, Matty P should not be outcoached by Coughlin, Ferrel and McBride. They had a few plays where things were going good and then resorted back the stale playcalling we've been accustomed to and lost the game On 3rd and 11 after the wes drop, Brady had Edleman, branch, Ocho and Nate Soldier on the field as recieving options. Really?  Those are the guys you count on in the clutch? Why not go back to Wes again and let him make up for it like most Qb's do?  Well, he doesnt call in the personell. I am not mad about the loss as i saw a team in the giants who were destined to win. I believe even is Wes makes the catch, something else may have happened. We were that unlucky that night. It wasnt in the cards. Brady n Wes failed on routine play and Eli and Manningham executed a great play. Game Over Now, Why is it that B.B. seems to be always outcoached in big games as of late and his gameplans leave you scratching your head??? Anybody?  oK Rusty has his hand up......anyone else....lol
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    This is total bull....... and why is it we have to "blame" someone??  They didnt play well as a team ....end of story.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Once again, yall are misunderstand my point. I am not laying blame anywhere, just simply saying if you ARE gonna blame someone, blame the head coach.

    He did have a gameplan that was good enough to win, but I think this game could have been won going away if played right.


    I am going by what I see on the board. O'bies fault, Wes' fault, etc.

    I dont blame anyone, I see a team to me that looked destined to lose that sunday, Point blank. The plays werent made when they needed to be made.


    I Understand this, but Nationally this is gonna be a B.B. Blunder. When you are considered the Greatest Coach of our Era and possible all time and lose 2 Sb's to a coach who was on the verge of getting fired both seasons and have the Best Qb of our Era, yes it will Fall on B.B. right, wrong or whatever.


    When you go back 10 years from now and look at SB losers, its not gonna say with an asterick*(wes dropped the ball)

    It will be a blemish on his SB record.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Also Brady was hurt after the Tuck play and it showed in his numbers.

    You dont go from having a 141 rating before "the sack" to 54 something, whatever he ended up with.

    This is when you tell Woody to sit down, bring out your lead back and protect your hurting QB.  I dont care that they didnt run more during the game because Woody was in and he did nothing in the run game, but in the 4th with the lead, you go to the 4 minute drill. We all know what it used to look like.

    Same argument Rusty made, I am just saying that B.B. runs the show so you cant blame O'bie for that. Ive seen B.B. on the sideline coaching. He is quick to say something if he feels the need to. He will something like it, "Billy, throw it outside the numbers, or Billy, run it inside" and Billy looks at his playcard and chooses from a list of plays that fit what the H.C. wants and calls what he wants.

    The point is, B.B, chooses the direction of the playcalling. Pass, Run, outside, inside, etc.  if he thinks things are fine, he wont make a suggestion.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    The D played well above their average...

    The O played well below their average...

    No one is to blame per say, the "team" lost

    We need to give Brady the best line money can buy....

    If he had more time, we score our normal 30 and we are still recovering from our hangovers.

    Just sayin'
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from chiefret. Show chiefret's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Coaches devise game plans, players are expected to execute them.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    <<Now, Why is it that B.B. seems to be always outcoached in big games as of late and his gameplans leave you scratching your head??? >>

    <<I dont blame anyone, I see a team to me that looked destined to lose that sunday, Point blank. The plays werent made when they needed to be made. />>

    Please do not try to justify or explain these self-contradictory quotes from 2 of your posts in this thread.  And please don't try to back pedal; you are blaming Belichick for the loss.  That assertion can be made about any loss by any NFL team in any game.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    The D played well above their average


    Really? How so?

    The fact they didnt give up many points was very good.

    Other than that....

    They had NO turnovers after Averaging 2 a game.

    They did not Force ONE 3 and out!

    They Could not Stop the Run.

    I could easily say the "D" played better in week 9 vs the Giants when they shut them out in the 1st half.

    Yeah they didnt give up many points, but they sure gave up a lot of yards and time that could have helped the offense.

    Th Giants didnt have any drives with less than 8 plays I think. Defense couldnt stop the run. Some people thought based our # 10 ranking that we were stout vs the run, and I may agree to a degree but not Sunday. Vince was pushed around and they never adjusted. Did anyone else notive how wide the tackles were playing?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    BB wasn't on the field allowing the winning score at the endgame.

    Lots of fingers can be pointed in every direction all game long in a close one. But in the end the most important thing is the end. The Giants' O won the game and the Pats' D lost it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Way too long to read in full but I agree that the Manningham challenge was a very poor choice.  The conventional reasoning is "you have to challenge there" but it was right in front of him and it was pretty clear on the initial replay he made the catch.  That extra time out changes everything in the last 2 minutes.

    Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Atj, it is possible for both to be true.

    The same way everyone sais an All pro like Wes should make the catch, which is true is the same argument I can make for coach.

    Is B.B. at the top of the coaching food chain or not?  Is he considered one of the best by his peers?

    So he also should be held to the same high standard thats placed on Wes and the same highh standards thats places on Brady, esp. if the qb is hurt and you keep chucking it.

    the fact is the players didnt execute and the Gameplan could have been better.

    They dont have to contradict as they are both relevant.

    They lost as a Team and the Leader of the Team will Ultimately be blamed at the end of the day.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Welker took the blame for the loss,,,we all know he catches that ballits a first down forcing giants to take their last timeout. Pats run twice, and get another first down its Brady knee time.....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Atj, it is possible for both to be true. The same way everyone sais an All pro like Wes should make the catch, which is true is the same argument I can make for coach. Is B.B. at the top of the coaching food chain or not?  Is he considered one of the best by his peers? So he also should be held to the same high standard thats placed on Wes and the same highh standards thats places on Brady, esp. if the qb is hurt and you keep chucking it. the fact is the players didnt execute and the Gameplan could have been better. They dont have to contradict as they are both relevant. They lost as a Team and the Leader of the Team will Ultimately be blamed at the end of the day.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    I asked you not to try to explain or justify because I knew that you couldn't and this post amplty demonstrates that very thing. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Im sorry Atj, is this the part where im supposed to keep quiet on my on thread and allow you to make a point that ends the conversation..?

    I'll put my fingers to the keyboard when i want, thank you.

    What is it with everyone thinking they can control people? Say your peice and move on or keep talking, but please dont tell me about what you asked me to do.

    Im not your servant

    Agree or disagree but dont be a d ick please, we have enough of those in here already.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    I believe the Pats D forced 4? fumbles. Giants recovered 3 and were given the other back on the 12 men on the field call.

    The majority of talent on the Pats is on the Offense. That Offense scored 17 points, well below the season average.

    The Offense against the Ravens was sub-par as well.

    If you are insistent on throwing the ball the majority of the time you are going to have trouble against strong pass rushing teams if your O line is not amoung the elite....

    Giants
    Ravens
    Jets
    Steelers
    Ravens
    Giants

    I don't mind them throwing, ya got Brady, why not. However the O line needs to get better so your franchise and your game plan has plenty of time.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Homecheese, you dont think B.B. was part of the gameplan that was made up for the SB?

    DO you realize that on Tuesday B.B. comes in with the gameplan and tells his coordinators how he wants to attack and what plays are gonna be used and then they practice those plays during the week?

    Once B.B. saw we had the ball on the 4 yard line, maybe him, being the head coach and all could have said, "Wait a minute Billy, do we really wanna go playaction here from the 4?" lets call a dive up the middle and try to get off th goal line or run a quick hitter to Wes or Hernandez"

    Thats a one minute convo...  Most fans knew it was a bad play call....and the coach did not?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Bill Belicheck. Every player on the team probably feels they could have done more to contribute but the fact is, they didnt. The coaches job is to put the players in positon to make plays. 1.) After your field position was established at the 4 yard line, why didnt B.B. overide the call that was a playaction, 7 step drop into the endzone with 3 long developing routes? 2.) Why did he play the defensive tackles out wide closer to the ends? I assume its because he wanted the ends to get one on one matchups. It looked ok the first drive. After that, the Giants caught on and gashed us while double teaming Wilfork. 3.) When we were getting gashed(because we had to stay in cover 2) B.B. decided to take out Deaderick and put in Ellis to better the run defense. Cant say if it worked because the Giants were passing too but taking out Deaderick ensured he wouldnt get any more sacks. Ellis never sniffed Eli 4.) Above I pointed a clear change in the defense as a result of not being able to stop the run that made us less effective in rushing the passer. 4.) 12 men on the field on defense!?!?  This is what happens when you tell your CB to keep switching back from CB to Safety. eventually they are gonna get confused. Molden thought he was in at Cb, but it was someone else. 5.) Knowing how the Giants covered the middle of the field, how many passes were called outside the hash marks??  2, one to Deion and one to Ocho?!  Does Ocho have a one catch limit that he cant get any more balls thrown his way? 6.) Run the ball with your Lead Back. I get why Danny was in there for the passing game but he got too many carries and did nothing with it. This falls on B.B., not Brady..ahem, Rusty. 7.) Coach Ferrel said he had a hard time adjusting when we went no huddle and was surpised that we didnt run that offense more.( I think they were scared to go 3 and out, and already behind in T.O.P. so they backed off) 8.) After contuining to give up runs, we never brought a safety down in the box for fear of getting burnt over the top. I get it, but it didnt help with our offense sitting on the sideline all night. 9.) B.B. challened the Manningham catch which was clearly a catch with the first replay showing both feet hit the ground. Could have used the extra T.O. 10.) A coaching staff of B.B., Obie, Joshy, Matty P should not be outcoached by Coughlin, Ferrel and McBride. They had a few plays where things were going good and then resorted back the stale playcalling we've been accustomed to and lost the game On 3rd and 11 after the wes drop, Brady had Edleman, branch, Ocho and Nate Soldier on the field as recieving options. Really?  Those are the guys you count on in the clutch? Why not go back to Wes again and let him make up for it like most Qb's do?  Well, he doesnt call in the personell. I am not mad about the loss as i saw a team in the giants who were destined to win. I believe even is Wes makes the catch, something else may have happened. We were that unlucky that night. It wasnt in the cards. Brady n Wes failed on routine play and Eli and Manningham executed a great play. Game Over Now, Why is it that B.B. seems to be always outcoached in big games as of late and his gameplans leave you scratching your head??? Anybody?  oK Rusty has his hand up......anyone else....lol
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    This is the silliest post ever.  The loss is due to the fact that ONE team has to lose, it's the one with the least points, and some things didn't go right.  Welker is not evil for not making that catch, Brady isn't evil for throwing the pick, Gronk for not catching it or knocking it down, etc etc etc.  Stop being a colostomy bag.  The team collectively didn't make enough plays.  They are  still a great team.  The stupid infighting here is the worse part of the loss, which is weird because I thought it would be trolls.  Nope, it's "FANS" like you, Mr. OP.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]I believe the Pats D forced 4? fumbles. Giants recovered 3 and were given the other back on the 12 men on the field call. The majority of talent on the Pats is on the Offense. That Offense scored 17 points, well below the season average. The Offense against the Ravens was sub-par as well. If you are insistent on throwing the ball the majority of the time you are going to have trouble against strong pass rushing teams.... Giants Ravens Jets Steelers Ravens Giants I don't mind them throwing, ya got Brady, why not. However the O line needs to get better so your franchise and your game plan has plenty of time.
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting[/QUOTE]

    These days teams that reach the SB are rather evenly matched. In the end, none of the details you mention matter. What matters is putting yourself in a position to win in the end. We were in that position. The O failed on the Welker drop. The D failed on the endgame stop. So we lose.

    You can point fingers all day long on different things in a close game for either team on either side of the ball. What matters is who steps up in the end. It's the same story in all three losses to the Giants in recent years. Each and every loss features a last minute FAIL by the D and an Eli winning drive.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Dave, my opening post states "who the loss falls on" I didnt say who the blame was on.


    When did I mention Wes and others being evil?
    If anything I was the one here 2 days ago saying we LOST as a team.

    The reason for this thread is because people are still on here blaming O'bie, etc.

    I just said its all gonna fall on the head coach.

    Its one thing to disagree with me, which is fine, but atleast understand what I am saying.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Once again, yall are misunderstand my point. I am not laying blame anywhere Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Your title states otherwise. Every time someone disagrees with you you say that they misunderstand. Try being more clear!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Fair enough, I just think that after 2 weeks everyone should be on the same page.

    I dont think the play call came in at the time, I think they had a scripted drive.

    My point was after Bill saw where we got the ball he should have known the 1st play of the game and realized that wouldnt work.

    Brady made a bonehead play but how many games have we started like that?


    Like you said, why try a playaction on the 1st play before you established the run?  If we were a Running team I would understand but they werent looking for us to run in that scenario. Nobody bit up on the fake and everyone was back in coverage.
     

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