Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    When you throw 75-80% of the time it's like telling your chess partner your next move. Against an average player you can win, against a top line player you can't.

    When a pass rushing team knows you are going to pass you have handed them your "next" move. They will come at you hard every snap putting tremendous pressure on your O line.

    You have 2 choices....

    Begin to run the ball to counter the rush....

    or

    Build an O line that takes no prisoners....

    Against teams like the Ravens, Jets, Steelers, Giants, 49ers and the like you run into trouble. These teams come at you like you harmed a family member.

    Against the Giants in 08, Ravens in 10, Jets in 11 and Giants in 12 we passed the majority of the time and the pass rushing teams capitalized on this and we didn't score much and lost.

    Going forward we either...

    Run the damn ball.....

    Or build a Peyton Manning type of O line that can defend Brady like the US Secret Service.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on



    Belichick bought the groceries.  I think he cooked up an okay game plan, but with those ingredients, it's hard to win MasterChef. Especially true when the Gronk goes bad and you need to cook with it anyway.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Capn, what i am saying is This. The gameplan could have been better but it wasnt the reason we lost.

    We loss the game collectively as a team by not making enough plays on defense( no 3 and outs) and not making the plays on offense.


    When I say B.B.'s name and how it falls on him is that years  from now I believe it fall on B.B. as nationally people wont care about Wes' drop, or remember , they will just remember B.B. losing another Sb to Coughlin in th rematch.


    I think B.B. did a good enough job with the plan to get the win and the players came up short.


    You think people are gonna blame O'bie 10 years from now...or Matty P, or do you think they will say something like " After creating a dynasty, B.B. is 0-2 after spygate and loss 2 heartbreakers to his longtime coaching buddy Coughling"

    Im just saying how its gonna go.  Dont shoot the messenger.


    Here are my keys to the loss besides the Wes.

    Defense couldnt stop the run.

    Offense did nothing to offset the attention Gronk was getting , mainly not throwing outside when Chad could have gotten that 10 yard comeback all day.

    Sure we still have a chance to win, but we all know once Eli got the ball with 3:47 it was over. That was the biggest thing to avoid in this game and we still let our lousy defense try to end the game.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Nomore pension, Great points, I agree.


    Either get the big Dallas of the 90's offensive line or get the Stud running back that WILL get the carries.

    I think we all know B.B. is no dummy, so its pretty easy to say he doenst think that highly enough of Benny to feature him, so we need another Corey Dillon
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]When you throw 75-80% of the time it's like telling your chess partner your next move. Against an average player you can win, against a top line player you can't. When a pass rushing team knows you are going to pass you have handed them your "next" move. They will come at you hard every snap putting tremendous pressure on your O line. You have 2 choices.... Begin to run the ball to counter the rush.... or Build an O line that takes no prisoners.... Against teams like the Ravens, Jets, Steelers, Giants, 49ers and the like you run into trouble. These teams come at you like you harmed a family member. Against the Giants in 08, Ravens in 10, Jets in 11 and Giants in 12 we passed the majority of the time and the pass rushing teams capitalized on this and we didn't score much and lost. Going forward we either... Run the damn ball..... Or build a Peyton Manning type of O line that can defend Brady like the US Secret Service.
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting[/QUOTE]

    Yup, exactly, and running the ball more makes the passing game deadly with a good QB.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    Cutting through all the crapola; this loss falls squarely on the dirty no good baastahd Pollard.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Im sorry Atj, is this the part where im supposed to keep quiet on my on thread and allow you to make a point that ends the conversation..? I'll put my fingers to the keyboard when i want, thank you. What is it with everyone thinking they can control people? Say your peice and move on or keep talking, but please dont tell me about what you asked me to do. Im not your servant Agree or disagree but dont be a d ick please, we have enough of those in here already.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Regret that you see me pointing out the contradicitons in your own thread as me 'being a d ick'.  And I would never presume to tell you that you couldn't post; just asked you not to try to defend the contradiction.

    That said, I can see how you could interpret it that way so let me rephrase.

    Your initial post was pretty clear:  the responsibility for the fault lies at the feet of Belichick.  OK, I can understand that contention.  I don't necessarily agree but I can understand it.

    What furrowed my brow was the post later in the thread wherein you claimed not to be trying to do precisely what you did in the first post:  affix blame. 

    You don't see it as a contradiction; I do.  So we disagree on who's at fault and we disagree that you contradicted yourself. 

    Hopefully this post does not place me in the "d ick-who-frequently-posts-here' category'. 
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Ridiculous premise.  BB doesn't have wires connected to Bill O'Brien's brain or Brady's brain or Welker's brain, etc. Sorry. The defensive gameplan was very good, the offensive gameplan flawed as usual. The only blame for him is not taking over O'Brien's headset and bitchslapping Brady's wishes to try to throw more to pull away in the game. You wan't to blame him for that, fine. Frankly, I have no idea how this team can look at their fans with a straight face using that same crappy, finesse base offense for another season and expect me or anyone to think that it's going to lead to a SB win. They have literally handed over 3 SBs in 5 years because they didn't want to commit to a run or run it with a lead. I am at the end of my patience rope with the pretend game, so if they don't change this next year, I am done as a fan, until BB and Brady are gone.  That simple. Best coach and QB when they want to be. Period. But, BB can't do it all and control Brady's mind or take over the OC role duuring a game, drugging O'Brien and taking his headset. But, he can change the ideology of the offense, yes. In other words, BB, please slap Brady and now McDaniels.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
    Does anybody know how many times TB actually use an audible to change up the play if he sees a hot read or not liking the defensive alignment in a running play? Unless going to a slot reverse in an empty backfield, what does he call if not the play sent in by O'B?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

     Blaming individual players for what was a team loss will not get us back to the superbowl next year.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]I could make the same excuse for arguable, NE Def MVP, Andre Carter's injury and how it negatively affected the diversity of NE's front 7. Just because Gronk wasn't 100%, doesn't mean our entire ability to sustain a drive or try to run, goes out the window. Stop it. This is a deep rooted, serious, serious problem because it's ideological and might be egotistical, unable to be reeled back in.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    I think you're selling short the impact of having a HOF caliber weapon on O hobbled for the sake of your "spread" rant. Diversify, at least a little.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on : You have no idea how BB gameplans. NONE.  Nor do I, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see BB; A Football Life with BB and Brady in the same room, O'Brien not in the room, and Brady then saying "I am going to stop by Bill O'Brien's room now" on the way out the door,. and to connect the dots. Translation? Brady has more power in gameplans, suggestions, decisions on offense, etc, than Bill O'Brien did. That's a problem, especially if O'Brien can't be comfortable or he was a bad hire and we needed someone to slap Brady like Weis used to do. BB is not an offensive guy, so he's clearly leaning on Brady a lot in the gameplanning, adding plays to a playbook, and whatever else. Stop doing two things, because it's VERY annoying: 1. BB is not an offensive coach.2 2. Brady is not a rookie or some 2-3 year QB who needs to be told what works and what doesn't. The irony of this last statement, as we've now seen proven, is that HE DOES need to be told and reined in. When I hear him publicly say "I don't like being under Center" and we rarely then  see it, this means he controls the offense either by BB defering to that, or because he's Tom Brady and BB allows him to generally run things. See, people with higher educations can use rational deductions to make these kinds of conclusions. There are two QBs in this league that have been running an  offense for YEARS. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. It's very likely now, that both a Brees and a Rodgers are closer to what Manning and Brady earned, but IMO, I don't believe a Payton or a McCarthy, BOTH OFFENSIVE coaches, defer or allow each Brees or Rodgers to have as much power as Brady here. Just a hunch on that one, but it's very obvious to me that Brady is the OC here.  Since Weis left, he was buddies with McDaniels because of the age factor, and because McDaniels offense allowed Brady to throw more.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    So your argument is the guy that drafts all of the offensive players completely defers to his QB and different OC's that are all in that QB's pocket when designing offensive gameplans and that he has been doing this for the past 7 years.  Really?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on : Don't get your point. "Diversify" what?
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    Diversify the rant. Point out something other than the "spread" issue as an issue. You've made 10,000 posts on the same thing and don't have a single person agreeing with you on it. A handful agree on parts of it.

    Do you think BB is stupid? Because if you're right I think he could sort of convince Brady and OB to knock it off if he agreed with your analysis. This tells me he must not be "getting it" the way you do.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on : What is that now?  Try framing sentences and making sense with the question. If you're going to mock me, please make sense. lol
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Okay I'll try again.  Your premise is that for the last 7 years (2005-now) that Bill Belichick the coach defers to Tom Brady when designing the offensive gameplans as well as his offensive coordinator (McDaniels or O'Brien) who is Tom Brady's b1tch.  I find this hard to believe for a few reasons:

    1) BB drafts the offensive players and has complete control over offensive personnel.  Do we really think he makes these kind of decisions without any idea of how he wants to run the offense as coach?

    2) Many people on this board (you and I included) as well as many other people consider BB to be the greatest coach of all time.  I don't think you can give him that title if you think he completely cedes control of an entire side of the football to other people.  I sincerely doubt that any outside observer who thinks BB is a great coach believe that he is as far removed from the offense as you like to imply.

    3) There is evidence that BB leverages his defensive expertise when coaching his offensive players.  It has often been noted that when Dick Rehbein died that he and Weis did not name a new QB coach and took over responsibilities themselves.  Former QB's have gone on record saying that the film sessions that BB had with his QB's about defensive players, their tendencies and how to attack them were some of the most unique and informative sessions they have ever had specifically because of his mastery of defensive strategy.

    4) There is evidence that BB is one of the most competitive if not the most competitive coach in the NFL.  Your premise is that it is obvious to anyone with a brain that the offensive philosophy of the last 7 years has prevented the team from winning more games/SBs.  For your premise to be true that means that either BB is an idiot (which you don't believe) or that BB cares more about catering to his QB than winning (which I don't believe).

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on : Does BB, a defensive coach, micromanage Charlie Weis? If that answer is no, which I know it is, then why would he hire and then micromanage McDaniels or O'Brien? He wouldn't. They're hired with the title for a reason. Sure, he might bring them along slowly before giving full power, but they're hired for a reason. So, I am complaining basically about the hire and his lack of interevening when he needed to, I suppose.  We always hear BB talking to his defense, right?   We hear clips RIGHT NOW on 98.5 which showcases BB speaking to the D. WE NEVER SEE BB TALKING TO THE OFFENSE OR O LINE.  BB is not an offensive coach. He's deferring to much to Brady to make final choices. Yes, that is my premise. I disagree with that and so, yes, I do put blame with BB on that. If this is not the case, which it may not be, then we have a simple ideological failure on offense via BB, a defensive minded coach, which would mean we need a Charlie Weis in here or a mature McDaniels who is not going to treat Brady like a buddy. O'Brien didn't succeed, overall. 2009, no big deal. He was learning. 2010, great job until the playoff game. Most of this year, AFC title game and SB = Fail I can just see now, after the AFC Title game in 2007 or this year and it's probably almost the same conversation, something like this going down: Tom Brady - "Just give me another chance to make it right. I know I was bad in the AFC title game, but I know if I just try harder and we execute better, I can be a better QB and win the game with a pass based gameplan." We saw Brady tell Kraft "I'll be better in the SB". But, he wasn't, YET again with a lead, a horrendous INT and 40+ passes. How much evidence do we need here?
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    He wasn't better????

    WHAT?

    He completed 16 straight passes with 2 tds during that run. How is that not better?

    "horrendous int" ??? He had a 6ft 6 90 catch TE with 27 tds in his 1st 2 years down field with a fuking DE/LB on him....How the heck is that a horrendous int?

    I just heard Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan( 2 of the best) slam all fans and media who say that was a bad decision. They said they would "make that throw a 1000 out of a 1000 times"

    The only part that upsets me about our team is we don't run the ball enough, period. Especially when Brady clearly aggravates his previously sprained left shoulder and we still throw with a lead as much as we did.(Game plan and coaching staffs fault not the QB)

    The Giants won because they ran the ball with there lead back 7 times more then we did for less effective yardage. It didn't matter they weren't running as well because they won T.O.P by doing it, and got the ball in the end because of it.

    Watch the end of the 3rd qtr and all of the 4rth. we go 3 n out with heavy pass offense. The Giants ran the ball 4 straight times in the 4rth and played the clock perfectly( btw those runs didn't end up in great yardage but they did it anyway)

    Brady played a great game as did our defense. Our predictable one trick offense was eventually slowed to a halt.....just like it has been in every big game since 07.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on

    In Response to Can we be Honest and Say who the Lost Ultimately Falls on:
    [QUOTE]Bill Belicheck. Every player on the team probably feels they could have done more to contribute but the fact is, they didnt. The coaches job is to put the players in positon to make plays. 1.) After your field position was established at the 4 yard line, why didnt B.B. overide the call that was a playaction, 7 step drop into the endzone with 3 long developing routes? 2.) Why did he play the defensive tackles out wide closer to the ends? I assume its because he wanted the ends to get one on one matchups. It looked ok the first drive. After that, the Giants caught on and gashed us while double teaming Wilfork. 3.) When we were getting gashed(because we had to stay in cover 2) B.B. decided to take out Deaderick and put in Ellis to better the run defense. Cant say if it worked because the Giants were passing too but taking out Deaderick ensured he wouldnt get any more sacks. Ellis never sniffed Eli 4.) Above I pointed a clear change in the defense as a result of not being able to stop the run that made us less effective in rushing the passer. 4.) 12 men on the field on defense!?!?  This is what happens when you tell your CB to keep switching back from CB to Safety. eventually they are gonna get confused. Molden thought he was in at Cb, but it was someone else. 5.) Knowing how the Giants covered the middle of the field, how many passes were called outside the hash marks??  2, one to Deion and one to Ocho?!  Does Ocho have a one catch limit that he cant get any more balls thrown his way? 6.) Run the ball with your Lead Back. I get why Danny was in there for the passing game but he got too many carries and did nothing with it. This falls on B.B., not Brady..ahem, Rusty. 7.) Coach Ferrel said he had a hard time adjusting when we went no huddle and was surpised that we didnt run that offense more.( I think they were scared to go 3 and out, and already behind in T.O.P. so they backed off) 8.) After contuining to give up runs, we never brought a safety down in the box for fear of getting burnt over the top. I get it, but it didnt help with our offense sitting on the sideline all night. 9.) B.B. challened the Manningham catch which was clearly a catch with the first replay showing both feet hit the ground. Could have used the extra T.O. 10.) A coaching staff of B.B., Obie, Joshy, Matty P should not be outcoached by Coughlin, Ferrel and McBride. They had a few plays where things were going good and then resorted back the stale playcalling we've been accustomed to and lost the game On 3rd and 11 after the wes drop, Brady had Edleman, branch, Ocho and Nate Soldier on the field as recieving options. Really?  Those are the guys you count on in the clutch? Why not go back to Wes again and let him make up for it like most Qb's do?  Well, he doesnt call in the personell. I am not mad about the loss as i saw a team in the giants who were destined to win. I believe even is Wes makes the catch, something else may have happened. We were that unlucky that night. It wasnt in the cards. Brady n Wes failed on routine play and Eli and Manningham executed a great play. Game Over Now, Why is it that B.B. seems to be always outcoached in big games as of late and his gameplans leave you scratching your head??? Anybody?  oK Rusty has his hand up......anyone else....lol
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Are you serious? The coach does not play. The game was lost because of poor decisions and bad execution by the offense ON THE FIELD. The game was ours to win.
     

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