Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]I think there was too many offensive minds coming together and BB said keep it simple, OB was never liked (by the fans and I know he wasnt Bradys favorite OC) OB always always had vanilla play calling. Our defense had its chances and let it slip, we had costly penalties at the wrong time also. I think you're right in your overall assessment and BB may have just over thought it. We hobbled into the SB and Giants dominated teams coming in. Just like the almost perfect season, this SB was another one full of small mistakes that led to us losing the game, personally I don't think the Giants beat us, we just didn't use our chances to beat them. As stupid as that sounds.
    Posted by freediro[/QUOTE]
     
    I don't think it sounds stupid at all.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    I know this sounds petty but I do think alot of fans' trouble with accepting  the loss in the Superbowl is simply because it was to the Giants.  The same team that we were expecting to exact revenge/payback for the 2007 game and the perfect season.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": The irony is that the safety occurred on a play action pass!
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Calling a play action while backed up in the end zone and at the beginning of the game when you've done nothing to set up the play action = f'ing stupid call. When was the play action effective? Short yardage, red zone and after a decent amount of running game paved the way for it.

    That said there was no reason for the safety. He wasn't under pressure and there was no reason why he couldn't have slid sideways out of the pocket then thrown. Who knows? Maybe he was nervous because it was a dumb f'ing call at completely the wrong time in completely the wrong situation.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here! : When did I say he didn't do any of this... It lead to a direct 2 points and it made the game harder for the defense. A good defense should be able to recover from it but that pats didn't have that.
    Posted by csylvia79[/QUOTE]

    What it did was force us to have to get a TD at the end of the game instead of a FG for a tie.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": [QUOTE]I know this sounds petty but I do think alot of fans' trouble with accepting  the loss in the Superbowl is simply because it was to the Giants.  The same team that we were expecting to exact revenge/payback for the 2007 game and the perfect season. Posted by Salcon[/QUOTE] I agree it at least makes it hurt more. The giants really do have bragging rights over the pats as the team the dynastic pats team just couldn't beat.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]I know this sounds petty but I do think alot of fans' trouble with accepting  the loss in the Superbowl is simply because it was to the Giants.  The same team that we were expecting to exact revenge/payback for the 2007 game and the perfect season.
    Posted by Salcon[/QUOTE]

    I live in upstate NY and I don't know any Giants fan who wasn't nervous the whole game. The only obnoxious ones I know are the Jets fans who morphed at the end of the season. I see it all the time up here. Last year...Bills shirts first 1/3 of season, Jets for the second and Giants towards the end.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": How would we know the difference between using Brady as a crutch and riding your best player to victories? I guess I think it's smarter to use a hall of fame talent like Brady as a crutch than to lean on a mediocre running back like BJGE. If the coaches didn't rely on the passing game so much would they have won relying heavily on the Benny and Danny show? I think if we did that we would have had an offense like KC's. They ran a lot with meidiocre backs and, unsurprisingly, had mediocre results.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    What I meant by using Brady as a crutch in that he wasn't as creative in play calling as he could have been.  I agree that power running was not what the team was build for and that they couldn't have just relied on the run.
     
    Just that there was a lot of repeat set up and even I in my little bit of experience called a few play right where they were going.  If I can do that the other side of ball most likely is thinking the same thing. When CW and to a lesser extent McD was playcalling it just seem less obvious.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    Do you think BB wasn't aware of the opening offensive play ahead of time? I suspect that there was extensive discussion how they'd start the game depending on what their starting field position was. I doubt O'Brien was freelancing there. I think they called play action to set up the run later in the game. If that play had worked, the giants would have been wary about playing run too hard when BJGE was in.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    Glad that this was started with the thought of civility.

    I do think we are beating a dead horse (whoever had that clip of someone beating a dead horse I would not mind seeing it here again!).

    It is CLEAR the D was not good enough.

    It is CLEAR the O choked at some key points (starting with the first gut wrentching play from scrimmage and ending with the almost good pass and almost good catch).

    It is CLEAR that even one additonal key play from EITHER the O or D might have made the difference.

    Rarely sited (probably because it sounds like an excuse) but still CLEAR that having the best TE in the league significantly limited due to injury AND an All Pro O lineman - your best lineman - playing with inuries few football players could tolerate made winning this game particularly difficult.

    I think the coaching was solid under the conditions. Even on the Mario Manningham play where BB instructed to secondary to make sure Nicks did not beat us the coaching was sound.

    So it is CLEAR that it was a TEAM loss. Not an individual nor any one unit. It is CLEAR that two key injuries upped the degree of difficulty (imagine if JPP and Tuck were playing with the injuries that Gronk and Mankins had and ask yourself what implications that would have had for the game).

    So can we STOP reliving it, rehashing what we ALREADY know, and START to take a look at what promises to be an exciting season? We may not win the SB this year but we look to have one of the teams most likely to compete for it.

    If you want to keep rehashing lets go back to 1976 and start rehashing the playoff game agasint the Raiders. Any takers on that one?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here! : What I meant by using Brady as a crutch in that he wasn't as creative in play calling as he could have been.  I agree that power running was not what the team was build for and that they couldn't have just relied on the run.   Just that there was a lot of repeat set up and even I in my little bit of experience called a few play right where they were going.  If I can do that the other side of ball most likely is thinking the same thing. When CW and to a lesser extent McD was playcalling it just seem less obvious. Posted by csylvia79[/QUOTE] Forget the run or run-pass balance for moment. Thinking purely about the variety of pass plays, do you think they were creative in the passing game?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here! : Calling a play action while backed up in the end zone and at the beginning of the game when you've done nothing to set up the play action = f'ing stupid call. When was the play action effective? Short yardage, red zone and after a decent amount of running game paved the way for it. That said there was no reason for the safety. He wasn't under pressure and there was no reason why he couldn't have slid sideways out of the pocket then thrown. Who knows? Maybe he was nervous because it was a dumb f'ing call at completely the wrong time in completely the wrong situation.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    I agree that it was a bad call by the OC

    I don't think he could have slipped out of the pocket.... the D end would have had it easy to collapse toward Brady.  I may be wrong but I really think due to the bad play call and design of the play the best we could get out of that was 2.  All the receivers where covered and they had two qb spy on the play.  Only 4 man rush.

    If he tried to go near the receivers to get an inc, they could have been looking at a pick 6.

    No Matter we got the middle of the road outcome... best was inc... worst  pick six... mid 2 points.  With that call I think it was lucky for it to be the 2.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here! : I agree that it was a bad call by the OC I don't think he could have slipped out of the pocket.... the D end would have had it easy to collapse toward Brady.  I may be wrong but I really think due to the bad play call and design of the play the best we could get out of that was 2.  All the receivers where covered and they had two qb spy on the play.  Only 4 man rush. If he tried to go near the receivers to get an inc, they could have been looking at a pick 6. No Matter we got the middle of the road outcome... best was inc... worst  pick six... mid 2 points.  With that call I think it was lucky for it to be the 2. Posted by csylvia79[/QUOTE] I don't think Brady had many good options so heaving the ball away wasn't a bad decision. I think you can debate the play call, but you also have to wonder why seven backers couldn't stop four rushers. On the play call' was it possible the coaches were trying too hard to be cute/unpredictable? Would being mo predictable have helped us?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": Forget the run or run-pass balance for moment. Thinking purely about the variety of pass plays, do you think they were creative in the passing game?
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I don't think the passing game was real intricate.

    Most likely because they had to use a TE to help block on most plays no. Gronk being hurt he couldn't  do his middle up pattern.

    Maybe they where just force to use the play style they did.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]Anyone else having trouble ignoring Babe?  I click ignore, then on the next page all his posts are visible again.  Doesn't happen with any other poster.  He must be a boston.com sponsored hit generating employee.  
    Posted by Mighty2013[/QUOTE]

    That happens to me as well. I have been convinced for a while that Babe is a paid employee only here to generate website hits. Nobody could insult as many participants on this board as he does and not be banned.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    That Safety doesn't get called 999 out of 1000 times.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": I don't think Brady had many good options so heaving the ball away wasn't a bad decision. I think you can debate the play call, but you also have to wonder why seven backers couldn't stop four rushers. On the play call' was it possible the coaches were trying too hard to be cute/unpredictable? Would being mo predictable have helped us?
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    That is really hard... i know when saw the play live and Brady droped back I was scared "honestly." I fear the giants ability to get to the QB. 

    Should 4 guys be able to beat 7.  Really no but the gaints have two guys on that line that are known to need doubled team.  So when they are both not tired and rearing to go 7 might not be enough. 

    I think a run for one or even two yards there at least lets brady back up and not be in the inzone with the same play.

    It was a risk... it didn't work... maybe the giants filmed US!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here! : You don't blame Brady for the safety? I've shared the blame all around but still get trashed as a Brady basher. As for the offensive play calling...I doled out some there too along with the obvious to a 2 year old 'we're going to pass' or 'we're going to run' formations. I was met with a rant about how I think I'm better than BB --blah blah blah. I WANT MY PLAY ACTION BACK!!!!!! I am civil with everyone but two people and with them I only give what I get.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    Not in the slightest.

    Who calls a PA when the run has not been established yet against, the best pass rush in football on your own 6 yard line in which your receivers are running 15-20 yard routes? Oh yeah on the 1st play of the most important game of the year. 

    This is exactly what I am talking about. Poor play calling puts brady in a difficult situation to execute. If Weiss was our OC we would maintain TOP(by using safer plays,screens runs etc,.), use field position to our advantage, try and keep the defense guessing and put Brady in a position to "hit the open man".
     
    You can't hit the open man when the defense is dropping 7 and rushing 4 all day because they know for a fact you are going 4 or 5 wide every play.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CoolPat. Show CoolPat's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    Tom Brady is the new Peyton Manning. Laughing
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": How would we know the difference between using Brady as a crutch and riding your best player to victories? I guess I think it's smarter to use a hall of fame talent like Brady as a crutch than to lean on a mediocre running back like BJGE. If the coaches didn't rely on the passing game so much would they have won relying heavily on the Benny and Danny show? I think if we did that we would have had an offense like KC's. They ran a lot with meidiocre backs and, unsurprisingly, had mediocre results.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    No we wouldn't because we have Tom Brady and they have Matt Cassel. Running more would open up the pass and leave us indefensible. We play into a defense like the gints hands when we have thrown 135 pass att's to 55 rush att's in our last 3 losses in a row....2 of them being SB's

    Saying Benny wasn't good enough to handle more carries in the afc game or the SB is wrong my man. He averaged over 4 ypc in both games but only received 10 and 12 carries.

    If BB didn't think Benny was a good Rb for his team he wouldn't have used him as his lead back for 2 years in a row, in which he produced 1,700 yards 24 tds and zero fumbles.




     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    You can certainly argue that calling play action in a running situation is deceptive. Giants didn't buy it at all though.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    Let me repeat - can we stop rehashing this over and over and over again?

    Or maybe let me make this suggestion: can we stop reevaluating this over and over and over again?

    Or at least - can we stop making the same points over and over and over again....?

    Or of nothing else: can we stop rehashing this over and over... and over...

    AND OVER...

    and OVER AGAIN?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!:
    [QUOTE]Do you think BB wasn't aware of the opening offensive play ahead of time? I suspect that there was extensive discussion how they'd start the game depending on what their starting field position was. I doubt O'Brien was freelancing there. I think they called play action to set up the run later in the game. If that play had worked, the giants would have been wary about playing run too hard when BJGE was in.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Hence the change in philosophy from Weiss to OB. We used to use the run to set upo the pass, now we use the pass to set up some token run plays.

    Weiss either runs that ball or uses a high% screen/ short route in that situation. 10x out of 10.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    I could come up with plenty of what ifs and if this or that happened, but we lost and it hurt again! This time it hurt my brain not my heart. I know we are all civil men, no offense but I am getting depressed here and I want to just look forward. Brady could still win another if not 2 SB if we get back to a solid running game, something lacking in our last 2 SB appearances.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    Oh, but first, before we stop rehaching this AGAIN how about talking about how Brady played, or about the D not doing this... and that.. and the other thing... and the coaching....

    I'm sure we could say it all again before we STOP saying it all over and over and over again..
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!

    In response to "Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we have a civil debate to end all this bickering in ever thread here! : No we wouldn't because we have Tom Brady and they have Matt Cassel. Running more would open up the pass and leave us indefensible. We play into a defense like the gints hands when we have thrown 135 pass att's to 55 rush att's in our last 3 losses in a row....2 of them being SB's Saying Benny wasn't good enough to handle more carries in the afc game or the SB is wrong my man. He averaged over 4 ypc in both games but only received 10 and 12 carries. If BB didn't think Benny was a good Rb for his team he wouldn't have used him as his lead back for 2 years in a row, in which he produced 1,700 yards 24 tds and zero fumbles. Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE] Running more could have also led to more punts. It doesn't necessarily open up the passing game. Sometimes it just kills drive. Why are you so certain that running more would help? Don't you think if it would have helped BB Would have done it more? How do you explain him not doing it more? You think he would have stood by and let O'Brien lose e super bowl if he knew what O'Brien was doing was wrong?
     

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