Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    Yawn.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    4Q,pal. I can smell a yets fan even through the internet. Even your team colors say it all slime green.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    No. What is he supposed to do ... win the SB every single year. Guy is a HOF'er and the book isn't completely written on AH yet either. I mean, he missed all of what was already a shortened offseason. 

    I would say the same about McCourty. Give the kid a bogey for a few weeks. He was excellent last season. He's already given up more long passes and almost as many TDs as he did last season all together ... but he is still a second year player. He is bound to have ups and downs. 

    On top of that, you can complain about some personell moves, but others have been dynamite. Gronk, Hernandez, Vollmer, Solder already looks very good, and so does Ridley. 

    But I mean ... grabbing Ocho and not having it work out, even if that is the end ... so what? Every other offensive pick or move he has made (Woodhead, Hern, Gronk, Voll, Solder, Ridley) adding of course bringing Branch back, have been fantastic. 1 or 2 misses out of like ten offensive "moves" is a great record. 

    Yeah, defensive moves, ok, hit or miss the last few drafts. Or at least it looks that way. The jury is out on DMC, but Chung, Mayo, and Spikes all look great. DMC, Dowling, AH, Carter, Anderson are still in a grey area. Even if we are hasty and count Cunningham as a bust, along with Butler, and a few others ... it still works out 50/50. 

    Overall his record is been way better than league average. NE, remains, IMO, only one defensive play-maker shy of being the best team in pro-football... if those "grey area" guys start to shape up ... then they will be. 

    You will have the league's #1 offense with a very good defense. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    Z said it all.  

    Remember guys, BB has fielded a winning team for ten straight years.  Because of that, he's had to work with low draft picks every year.  People complain all the time about him trading down and trading into the next year, but that's the only way he's been able to get half-way decent picks to use or to get enough picks to play the odds game and draft quantity hoping to find some overlooked quality. 

    There's no coach in the NFL I'd rather have now.   I mean, who would you hire if you fired BB?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?:
    [QUOTE]No. What is he supposed to do ... win the SB every single year. Guy is a HOF'er and the book isn't completely written on AH yet either. I mean, he missed all of what was already a shortened offseason.  I would say the same about McCourty. Give the kid a bogey for a few weeks. He was excellent last season. He's already given up more long passes and almost as many TDs as he did last season all together ... but he is still a second year player. He is bound to have ups and downs.  On top of that, you can complain about some personell moves, but others have been dynamite. Gronk, Hernandez, Vollmer, Solder already looks very good, and so does Ridley.  But I mean ... grabbing Ocho and not having it work out, even if that is the end ... so what? Every other offensive pick or move he has made (Woodhead, Hern, Gronk, Voll, Solder, Ridley) adding of course bringing Branch back, have been fantastic. 1 or 2 misses out of like ten offensive "moves" is a great record.  Yeah, defensive moves, ok, hit or miss the last few drafts. Or at least it looks that way. The jury is out on DMC, but Chung, Mayo, and Spikes all look great. DMC, Dowling, AH, Carter, Anderson are still in a grey area. Even if we are hasty and count Cunningham as a bust, along with Butler, and a few others ... it still works out 50/50.  Overall his record is been way better than league average. NE, remains, IMO, only one defensive play-maker shy of being the best team in pro-football... if those "grey area" guys start to shape up ... then they will be.  You will have the league's #1 offense with a very good defense. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    They're more than one defensive play maker away from winning. During the championship years there were a lot of close low scoring games. Some of those were thrillers that came down to the last possession. That dynasty team had a lot of defensive playmakers. I wouldn't count any of the Pats D as playmakers not one. There's lots of blame to go around but it just shows how tough it is to win a championship and how lucky we were as fans for a long time. Also; take a look at the all time draft busts and you'll see they're mostly before 2000. Even teams like Cinci have gotten better after drafting so there's not as much value as there once was; guys are going pretty much where they should in the draft. I'm not saying the NFL is like the NBA where the first three guys are ringers and then a bunch of space takers but its something like that. The Pats are victims of their own success in this regard.

    I'm not hating but I have a bad feeling about this season; I honestly think Brady might get a career ending injury with all the lineman who are now Kobra Kai leg sweeping and ponying up puny $15k fines for the effort. There is no pass rush and I don't think they'll find one except for smoke and mirrors and with that goes the season.

    Let's see if they can stop the ground game this week; I have the feeling they can't.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3993225. Show user_3993225's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now? : That dynasty team had a lot of defensive playmakers. I wouldn't count any of the Pats D as playmakers not one.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron[/QUOTE]

    I guess you forgot about the all-pro defensive lineman and all-pro middle linebacker and the rookie corner who made the pro bowl.  I agree that the defense is a little thin at a few positions, but arguing that there are NO playmakers is just silly.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    I don't know if BB is a genius or no, but he is a great football coach and knows his Xs and Os inside out. I have full confidence he will get as much out of what he has as anybody else ever could.

    As a GM he has not been extraordinary in the least.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dodie2g. Show dodie2g's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    Yeah! I think people usually do that after a lost :D
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatFanInBA2. Show PatFanInBA2's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    In Response to Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?:
    [QUOTE]Bad Acquisition Number One, wide load Haynesworth, has had zero impact and the season will be twenty five percent over after this week's game. Same deal with Bad Acquisition Number Two, Chad Johnson, who dropped a sure touchdown pass last week and, like Haynesworth, has had no positive impact on this team. And to top it all off, our "defensive genius" has assembled one of the worst defenses in football. An unsuspecting person might think Belichick is looking for the Francona treatment.
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    Disagree!

    I would rather have a coach who has the B#&&s to go try different things to improve than one that does not take any chances. Have his FA acquisitions panned out? not YET. May not - but atleast he made a bold move. I am actually a fan of him going on 4th and 2 at Indy and for Chung to attempt the fake punt last year. These did not work out, and I was badly disappointed, but I am sure glad we took a risk.

    In any case, who would you rather have coaching the Patriots? Mangini? Rexy perhaps? 

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    I don't give a rat's a$$ if you call him a cumquat.  There's no one I'd rather have running the football operation of this franchise, either on the field or overseeing the personnel transactions.  It'll take more than a loss to a resurgent football team to turn my opinion of BB.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    Another lame thread.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    to answer the question.

    no.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now? : They're more than one defensive play maker away from winning. During the championship years there were a lot of close low scoring games. Some of those were thrillers that came down to the last possession. That dynasty team had a lot of defensive playmakers. I wouldn't count any of the Pats D as playmakers not one. There's lots of blame to go around but it just shows how tough it is to win a championship and how lucky we were as fans for a long time. Also; take a look at the all time draft busts and you'll see they're mostly before 2000. Even teams like Cinci have gotten better after drafting so there's not as much value as there once was; guys are going pretty much where they should in the draft. I'm not saying the NFL is like the NBA where the first three guys are ringers and then a bunch of space takers but its something like that. The Pats are victims of their own success in this regard. I'm not hating but I have a bad feeling about this season; I honestly think Brady might get a career ending injury with all the lineman who are now Kobra Kai leg sweeping and ponying up puny $15k fines for the effort. There is no pass rush and I don't think they'll find one except for smoke and mirrors and with that goes the season. Let's see if they can stop the ground game this week; I have the feeling they can't.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron[/QUOTE]


    this is what i mean...exactly....im not really seeing your objective points to this silly thread...your main point seems to be that our defense sucks...and based on that brady will get an injury and we will never make the playoffs......its week 3 we are 2-1... lets see if the team can evolve...

    look at lasts years winner.... they needed help to get in (luck) but once they did they were playing well and there you go... 
     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    First of all, "we" haven't been calling him a genius.

    Like everything else, that label started with the media and it dates all the way back to his DC days with the Giants.

    Belichick certainly never called himself a genius and if any fans did it was because they heard some hyperbolic media type say it first.

    Second........his record SINCE the last Super Bowl win is 80-29 including post-season. The Patriots have been in the playoffs every year except one during that period (the one year was an 11-5 season with their backup QB who hadn't started a game since high school playing all 16 games).

    OK, they haven't won a Super Bowl since then and since the end of the 2007 season their defense hasn't been that good.

    But first of all, winning a Super Bowl is hard. That's why six Lombardi Trophies (Steelers) is the most any organization has. It takes talent and, especially now with the salary cap and crazy rules changes that seem to evolve from game-to-game in some cases, it also takes luck. The Pats had some luck in 2001 and 2003, didn't need any in 2004, and had nothing but bad luck crop up at the worst possible times in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 post-seasons.

    Since the Super Bowl loss in 2007/2008 he's been trying to rebuild the defense while also trying to keep up with the evolving nature of the game, which emphasizes fantasy football-type styles of play.

    He's missed on a lot of key draft picks since 2008, but he's also hit on a lot of them. In other words, he drafts just as well as the other good teams and much better than most of the bad ones.

    I for one still agree that adding extra picks and using them either in trades for veteran players or to move up and down the draft board is the smart approach to take if you're always (and I mean ALWAYS) selecting late in every round because the team won 10, 11 or 12 games the year before.

    Of course, some people will never stop bringing up Clay Matthews, et al. It's the nature of the business. These are the same people who wanted them to draft busts like Vernon Gholston and Gerry Hughes, too, but those guys never seem to get mentioned.

    I don't like the fact that their defense doesn't stop the pass well enough right now, but I'm also patient enough to realize that they haven't had enough healthy guys to really be able to tell what they've got this year. It's also very possible that Belichick realizes that Brady and the offense can win the team enough games early in the season so that he can afford to take his time with Haynesworth, Ellis and the other new guys, make sure they're healthy, make sure they "get" the defense, and then unleash them, fresher and healthier, later in the season. (That could be the case--it's just an educated guess on my part, but it makes sense.)

    But I'll go back to my original point: 80-29 since they beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl. ANY fanbase should be happy with that, even if the Lombardi Trophy hasn't yet come with the package.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    From an outsiders perspective and after some thought, I think this is a valid question. 

    for years I have been hearing about how crappy the colts defense has been.  and really its true.  Yet the colts have had more success over the past 5-6 years than the pats.    

    Belichick is regarded as some kind of wicked defensive genius who's dialed up nothing but excellence.  Most on this board believe Brady is the best QB of his time (debateable), some think he may be the best ever. 

    if Belichick is the defensive genius, then the combo of Brady and Belichick have delivered more success than it has.  

    Babe and I disagree on the Brady Manning argument and we are probably splitting hairs, but what I think he'd agree with me that what really matters isn't scheme, but rather its personnel.  

    Great players make coaches look smart.  For example, I think the baltimore ravens have had 4 different dc's since their superbowl victory, but somehow the defense has remained relevant and very good.  Scheme?  Coaching?  no. 

    Players.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    That's the point.  If Dungy was so overrated as a defensive coach, but his defensive philosophy has allowed the colts to have more success than the pats since 05, what does that say about Belichick. 

    Frankly, nothing good.  He had his great d intact through 2008.  Granted 08 was without Brady and so that season is gone, but 05,06,07 nothing.  09,10 nothing. 

    the combo of Brady and Belichick (if belichick is a genius) should have produced more.
     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now? : I guess you forgot about the all-pro defensive lineman and all-pro middle linebacker and the rookie corner who made the pro bowl.  I agree that the defense is a little thin at a few positions, but arguing that there are NO playmakers is just silly.
    Posted by 423206852231dc13f5b2e36577a3bcfa[/QUOTE]

    You should have thrown in Merriweather as well. You mentioned three players. None of them are game changers. That's great they won the popularity contests last year.

    VW is a beast but NT is not a playmaker position. Jerod Mayo is wildly overrated. He gets lots of tackles but after the guy already rushed five yards. McCourty can't play four other positions in the dime and doesn't really change the game by himself; he's no Ty Law. This defense is terrible and has been for a while. If it weren't for turnovers this defense would have really stuck out last year as awful. In my mind playmaking is when you go out and physically manhandle your assigned player so bad you can help another or they don't go near you. Nope we have none of those. I'm not buying it.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?

    In Response to Re: Can we stop calling Bill Belichick a "genius" now?:
    [QUOTE]That's the point.  If Dungy was so overrated as a defensive coach, but his defensive philosophy has allowed the colts to have more success than the pats since 05, what does that say about Belichick.  Frankly, nothing good.  He had his great d intact through 2008.  Granted 08 was without Brady and so that season is gone, but 05,06,07 nothing.  09,10 nothing.  the combo of Brady and Belichick (if belichick is a genius) should have produced more.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    It took Gruden to win with Dungy's team in Tampa. Dungy is the beneficiary mostly of the wuss rules that his team put in effect the minute he left the physical Tampa team for the Indy glass wuss team. I love Colts fans; they single-handedly ruined the game of football making it flag football and then brag how great they are defensively. You take Freeney away from that team and its like losing Manning on offense. They're totally dependent on one guy. Kudos to them for signing a player that good; the Pats certainly can't find one.

    Brady and BB would have produced more if football stayed football. Throw out the entire history of the league so we can do some "emphasizing" to make sure the Colts get a SB. The Colts used to be the only easy win on the Pats schedule until they got their own sorry division.

    Is there any way we can get NE in a division with a combined payroll approximately that of NE? You know like the Colts? A win is a win right?

    BTW you're embarrasing yourself comparing Dungy to BB; not even an Indy fanboy would want Dungy over BB if you're life depended on a good defensive game plan.
     

Share