Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    Ther have been a lot of discussions here on this subject. I have to admit I get confused. Maybe there is and then again maybe there isn't. But as we are going into FA period i think maybe it would be good to flush out how everyone thinks is the best way to proceed

    Teams now have $130M in Total Cap - I see wher the Pats ahve $4.7 M? carryover and the Cap increase is $5M? So the Pats have about $10 M (tenth most or least ? in the leagure).

    They have to have about $4.7m for rookies?

    and they have about $10M in dead money, mostly Hern

    We also need to keep about $8-10M for 2014 emergency signings

    There are 3 contracts that can be restructured - VW, Mankins, Gost. Only VW could be released. Mankins might but would want another year.

    And then every position has its own value. Every player is one mini cube of the over all Rubics cube. There are 8 corner cubes with 3 diffenent colors , and then the edge cubes and then the one sided cubes in the planes.(which BB keeps as few as possible)

    As the cap rises , players who get great ontracts now, may not be happy in a few years when the Cap really goes up

    The other issue to keep in mind is that over the first 5 years of the CBO the teams are required to pay out in cash a certain amount of money. So there really is no savings in not signing contracts, in fact if you dont spend enough , a team may have to fork over money with out getting any player services in return. As i see it, the better strategy is to spend in cash as close to the nominal cap  # every year.

    When a team is up against any of the CBO's limits you may not be able to get enough good players and that could be Cap Hell. Otr they have a fw stars but no depth

    I think maybe it shouldnt be called Cap Hell, but Cap Paradoxes as there are many ways to manage the cap space but there are alwasy trade offs in any contract you sign.

    Last year i heard how the the Pats should ahve used more of there free cap money to sign more players. Set aside whether or not any player could have satisfied any particular need. With all the injuries I am glad they had a lot of free cap money, and with the hern thing I am glad they have the $4.7M carry over. And the Pats really cannot save money for themselves as they must pay out in cash a certain amount of money no matter what or it geventually goes to a fund for payment to the players

    So how would you structure the Pats Cap space for 2014?

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    Cap hell or whatever the hell exists with teams who are up against the cap, have only average years and are forced to cut good players from their average teams just to get back into a position to start over....Jets, Cowboys, Steelers, now the ravens, the Saints, the Giants all come to mind. Only the Saints made the playoffs but they just cut I think 4 pro bowlers(were they all pro bowlers?) and still can't get close to a Jimmy graham extension. Steelers have an expired defense and one of the worst o lines in football year after year and can't sniff the playoffs and are up against the cap = bad situation.

    A team like the Bronco's or Pats or are coming off afc and SB appearances and will have ample cap room to fill some small holes for what is already a very good team. They are in good situations as are others. Then you have cheap teams who suck but are 40 million under the cap like Brownies, Bucs, bengals etc... 

    Anyway, the Pats would have a million in dead money if not for the murderer and a big time hole filled as well(a great move TE whle gronk recovers) it is bad luck unless your name is Nostradamus. After the cuts and restructures the team is staring down 20 million easily coming off 3 straight afc championship games with the 3rd youngest team in the NFL and 27 million returning from injured reserve. I can't imagine too much of a better scenario barring coming off a Super Bowl win.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    I don't agree that any team needs to carry 8-10 million into the season for emergency signings, I understand players get injured, but they often are replaced with cheap undrafted free agents. Plus if you spend some of that 8-10 million during free agency, you may be able to sign a younger - better, player...that may not get inured as easily. I look at a guy like Kelly as an example - here was a guy on the wrong side of 30, coming off a down season and who had already blew out one knee previously...what happens? He goes down after four games with a non contact devastating knee injury. You can throw Adrian Wilson in there as well...coming off a poor season in which he got benched, on the wrong side of thirty and what happens?? He goes down with a season ending injury after showing that he was benched last season for a reason...he couldn't play anymore.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    While the Pats aren't as bad off as many teams this year, they have one of the most difficult cap situations they've had to deal with in recent memory.  The big problem is (which was completeley beyond their control) not only is Hernandez tying up a lot of money, we also need to find and pay a replacement for him.  Also we have 2 very expensive elder players in Mankins and Wilfork.  Wilfork I can see getting a restructure as I think he will be amendable to that.  Mankins though?  He's as tough a nut in negotiations as he is on the field, and I can't see him doing anything that is "team" friendly.  As expensive as he is though, we're better off with him than without. 

    Soap is gone, that's 3 million right there.  I can also see Gregory getting a restructure, or being released and if so that's another 3 million.  Adrian Wilson unless he's made a miraculous recovery and is defying age, will also be released freeing up yet more money.  It's going to be tight, that's for sure.  Especially if we sign Talib and you can bet that's in talks right now as I type this.  Hopefully we'll have some good luck this year to make up for all that bad luck last year, and the necessary peices will fall into place in a financially comfortable fashion. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to agill1970's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While the Pats aren't as bad off as many teams this year, they have one of the most difficult cap situations they've had to deal with in recent memory.  The big problem is (which was completeley beyond their control) not only is Hernandez tying up a lot of money, we also need to find and pay a replacement for him.  Also we have 2 very expensive elder players in Mankins and Wilfork.  Wilfork I can see getting a restructure as I think he will be amendable to that.  Mankins though?  He's as tough a nut in negotiations as he is on the field, and I can't see him doing anything that is "team" friendly.  As expensive as he is though, we're better off with him than without. 

    Soap is gone, that's 3 million right there.  I can also see Gregory getting a restructure, or being released and if so that's another 3 million.  Adrian Wilson unless he's made a miraculous recovery and is defying age, will also be released freeing up yet more money.  It's going to be tight, that's for sure.  Especially if we sign Talib and you can bet that's in talks right now as I type this.  Hopefully we'll have some good luck this year to make up for all that bad luck last year, and the necessary peices will fall into place in a financially comfortable fashion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree these 3 make it difficult now and for a few years - have a few more like this and you get to real cap hell ,

    Hern - as you said

    Mankins - he hasnt exactly had great playoffs either, aand is 32?

    VW - Good chance it is all over for him.

    What is the story on Kelly?

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to agill1970's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While the Pats aren't as bad off as many teams this year, they have one of the most difficult cap situations they've had to deal with in recent memory.  The big problem is (which was completeley beyond their control) not only is Hernandez tying up a lot of money, we also need to find and pay a replacement for him.  Also we have 2 very expensive elder players in Mankins and Wilfork.  Wilfork I can see getting a restructure as I think he will be amendable to that.  Mankins though?  He's as tough a nut in negotiations as he is on the field, and I can't see him doing anything that is "team" friendly.  As expensive as he is though, we're better off with him than without. 

    Soap is gone, that's 3 million right there.  I can also see Gregory getting a restructure, or being released and if so that's another 3 million.  Adrian Wilson unless he's made a miraculous recovery and is defying age, will also be released freeing up yet more money.  It's going to be tight, that's for sure.  Especially if we sign Talib and you can bet that's in talks right now as I type this.  Hopefully we'll have some good luck this year to make up for all that bad luck last year, and the necessary peices will fall into place in a financially comfortable fashion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Connoly had a -12.9 grade as a guard for the season and saves 3 million in cap room... Harmon will start next year imo as he posted a respectable +1.2 grade on 430 snaps his rookie year. 

    Mankins is still one of the best guards in the league and turned in one of the best performances of the post season against Indy. I say we extend him for 3 more years.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ther have been a lot of discussions here on this subject. I have to admit I get confused. Maybe there is and then again maybe there isn't. But as we are going into FA period i think maybe it would be good to flush out how everyone thinks is the best way to proceed

    Teams now have $130M in Total Cap - I see wher the Pats ahve $4.7 M? carryover and the Cap increase is $5M? So the Pats have about $10 M (tenth most or least ? in the leagure).

    They have to have about $4.7m for rookies?

    and they have about $10M in dead money, mostly Hern

    We also need to keep about $8-10M for 2014 emergency signings

    There are 3 contracts that can be restructured - VW, Mankins, Gost. Only VW could be released. Mankins might but would want another year.

    And then every position has its own value. Every player is one mini cube of the over all Rubics cube. There are 8 corner cubes with 3 diffenent colors , and then the edge cubes and then the one sided cubes in the planes.(which BB keeps as few as possible)

    As the cap rises , players who get great ontracts now, may not be happy in a few years when the Cap really goes up

    The other issue to keep in mind is that over the first 5 years of the CBO the teams are required to pay out in cash a certain amount of money. So there really is no savings in not signing contracts, in fact if you dont spend enough , a team may have to fork over money with out getting any player services in return. As i see it, the better strategy is to spend in cash as close to the nominal cap  # every year.

    When a team is up against any of the CBO's limits you may not be able to get enough good players and that could be Cap Hell. Otr they have a fw stars but no depth

    I think maybe it shouldnt be called Cap Hell, but Cap Paradoxes as there are many ways to manage the cap space but there are alwasy trade offs in any contract you sign.

    Last year i heard how the the Pats should ahve used more of there free cap money to sign more players. Set aside whether or not any player could have satisfied any particular need. With all the injuries I am glad they had a lot of free cap money, and with the hern thing I am glad they have the $4.7M carry over. And the Pats really cannot save money for themselves as they must pay out in cash a certain amount of money no matter what or it geventually goes to a fund for payment to the players

    So how would you structure the Pats Cap space for 2014?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    "Cap Hell" is a Queenie created soyndbyte that applies to every other team but the Patriots-most notably of course any team who won the most recent SB and any Pats rival particularly the Ravens and Steelers

     

    it is also mostly a figment of his 152 IQ

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    Here's a question for the group:

    Who believes the Pats are in "cap hell"?

    I believe this is mostly a fan thing because I see no outward sign from the team they are overly concerned going forward.  Otherwise, we'd see all sorts of stuff happening now like we see with other teams.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here's a question for the group:

    Who believes the Pats are in "cap hell"?

    I believe this is mostly a fan thing because I see no outward sign from the team they are overly concerned going forward.  Otherwise, we'd see all sorts of stuff happening now like we see with other teams.

    [/QUOTE]

    I dont

    I think they have manageble issues

    but hern, mankins. VW make it hard

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    They may be adding a few more shekels to the pot.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/25/source-cap-will-be-higher-than-132-million/

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    I think I would like it a lot better if they increased the Roster with these cap increases.  Stop the outrageous player salaries, increase the player minimums and have more roster depth instead.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    Before they even make one move based upon John Clayton's estimate on the salary cap for 2014 of 132mil, this munber would put the Patriots at 13mil under the cap Approx., this number is before any cuts or restructures are completed. This also doesn't take into consdieration the cap number which the Patriots will receive once the courts settle Hernandez contract issue in June, which is considered a high possibility that the Patriots will all of the future money owed Hernandez there by removing the cap number presently being consumed by that contract. So they are slightly hamstrung for the immediate future, by the opener they will have more than an ample amount of money too spend on Free Agents and rookies.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric1. Show KyleCleric1's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    Pats have now about $11.7M, projected by Miguel.

    They'll probably tender Aiken a 1.389m tender for restricted free agency so that'll take away 894k of cap space.

    The Pats could get cap space by:
    cutting Isaac Sopoaga - $2,080,000
    cutting Adrian Wilson - $746,666
    cutting Dan Connolly - $2,580,000 or extending him -  >$1,000,000
    cutting Steve Gregory - $2,305,000
    cutting Tommy Kelly - $1,736,250
    extend Vince Wilfork - >$4,000,000
    extend Stephen Gostkowski - >$1,000,000
    extend Devin McCourty - >$1,000,000
    convert Logan Mankins base salary to bonus - >$3,000,000

    Pats could probably also convert salary to prorated bonus for a few other vets like Gronk, Mayo, Vollmer, and Arrington as well.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to KyleCleric1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pats have now about $11.7M, projected by Miguel.

    They'll probably tender Aiken a 1.389m tender for restricted free agency so that'll take away 894k of cap space.

    The Pats could get cap space by:
    cutting Isaac Sopoaga - $2,080,000
    cutting Adrian Wilson - $746,666
    cutting Dan Connolly - $2,580,000 or extending him -  >$1,000,000
    cutting Steve Gregory - $2,305,000
    cutting Tommy Kelly - $1,736,250
    extend Vince Wilfork - >$4,000,000
    extend Stephen Gostkowski - >$1,000,000
    extend Devin McCourty - >$1,000,000
    convert Logan Mankins base salary to bonus - >$3,000,000

    Pats could probably also convert salary to prorated bonus for a few other vets like Gronk, Mayo, Vollmer, and Arrington as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    By my calculations you have just given the Pats 30 million in cap room for 2014 with 4 great players coming back from injury(Gronk, mayo, VW, Volmer) on the 3rd youngest team in the league fresh off 3 straight afc championships games.

    this team sucks.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to KyleCleric1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pats have now about $11.7M, projected by Miguel.

    They'll probably tender Aiken a 1.389m tender for restricted free agency so that'll take away 894k of cap space.

    The Pats could get cap space by:
    cutting Isaac Sopoaga - $2,080,000
    cutting Adrian Wilson - $746,666
    cutting Dan Connolly - $2,580,000 or extending him -  >$1,000,000
    cutting Steve Gregory - $2,305,000
    cutting Tommy Kelly - $1,736,250
    extend Vince Wilfork - >$4,000,000
    extend Stephen Gostkowski - >$1,000,000
    extend Devin McCourty - >$1,000,000
    convert Logan Mankins base salary to bonus - >$3,000,000

    Pats could probably also convert salary to prorated bonus for a few other vets like Gronk, Mayo, Vollmer, and Arrington as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    By my calculations you have just given the Pats 30 million in cap room for 2014 with 4 great players coming back from injury(Gronk, mayo, VW, Volmer) on the 3rd youngest team in the league fresh off 3 straight afc championships games.

    this team sucks.

    [/QUOTE]


    the main reasons haven't changed either: average conference, bad division and great QB who is going to be 37 soon

    eventually these favorables will run dry...although the 3 semi-pro teams in that division may NEVER get it together

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    The only team that's in cap hell is Dallas.  Everyone else is manageable.  New Orleans needs more space than usual because they want to nail down Graham.  But outside of that nobody is in cap hell.  Ware is going to be available.  Probably too costly.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Cap Hell ?? / FA Process Discussion

    In response to 42AND46's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to KyleCleric1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pats have now about $11.7M, projected by Miguel.

    They'll probably tender Aiken a 1.389m tender for restricted free agency so that'll take away 894k of cap space.

    The Pats could get cap space by:
    cutting Isaac Sopoaga - $2,080,000
    cutting Adrian Wilson - $746,666
    cutting Dan Connolly - $2,580,000 or extending him -  >$1,000,000
    cutting Steve Gregory - $2,305,000
    cutting Tommy Kelly - $1,736,250
    extend Vince Wilfork - >$4,000,000
    extend Stephen Gostkowski - >$1,000,000
    extend Devin McCourty - >$1,000,000
    convert Logan Mankins base salary to bonus - >$3,000,000

    Pats could probably also convert salary to prorated bonus for a few other vets like Gronk, Mayo, Vollmer, and Arrington as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    By my calculations you have just given the Pats 30 million in cap room for 2014 with 4 great players coming back from injury(Gronk, mayo, VW, Volmer) on the 3rd youngest team in the league fresh off 3 straight afc championships games.

    this team sucks.

    [/QUOTE]


    the main reasons haven't changed either: average conference, bad division and great QB who is going to be 37 soon

    eventually these favorables will run dry...although the 3 semi-pro teams in that division may NEVER get it together

    [/QUOTE]

    That's weird,  I know another team with playing in a wprst division with a great QB and they sucked last year. I guess there is more to an NFL PRO football team then 1 guy.

     

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