Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    Probably is but he's superior to plenty of other players at his position and sure the heck wouldn't mind him on the Pats.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated....... : Generally speaking, agree.  Week 1 is hard to guage. It's like test driving your XMas presents for the first time all at once. If NO's had a better rushing attack with better blocking TEs, you see a stronger rushing team expose him on the edge, though. A team like Pitt in last year's SB, dominated him in that area.  He made that great strip sack play, but they ran all over him for most of that game. That's all I am saying. Very good young player who can make plays, no doubt.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Agreed!
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    I wish we had an overrated LB with 13.5 sacks last year to go along with Mayo.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    Two things here:

    1) Bumping old posts to make some obvious point (or to ridicule someone you don't like) is lame.

    2) I don't know who is doing all this "rating" you're so worried about or where, exactly, Mathews is "rated," but he does the one thing he does very well . . .  if that's what you're looking for.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    I made very similar comments after last years SB. I specifically watched Mathews a lot after he got so much play on these boards. I did not think he set the edge, thought he over pursued to fault, and could not play the pass.
    He gets to the QB. No question.
    But the Pats were spot on. In this defense he is not a 3 down player, and they weren't using a #1 on a defender that does not play 3 downs. Would he have been a great 2 down player on the edge for the Pats? 100% yes. But the Pats don't draft players like that in round #1.
    You can argue with the logic. But you cannot argue with the Pats scouting report. They were spot on.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    "Keep in mind that Matthews wasn't very good as a rookie until Dom Capers got up there last year."


    Matthews had 10 Sacks and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie.  I'd call that very good.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]"Keep in mind that Matthews wasn't very good as a rookie until Dom Capers got up there last year." Matthews had 10 Sacks and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie.  I'd call that very good.
    Posted by BSII[/QUOTE]

    Rusty holds players to very high standards unless they play here in N.E.

    he is over on another thread saying Dunlap was not the better pick than Cunningham and that his 8.5 sacks as a rook mean nothing cuz he does nothing else...


    This Just In!  The Pats need a pass rush. I dont care if the player doesnt know how to tie his shoes, if he can get after the Qb, thats a plus.  We have s ucked at getting pressure for years now and how many wasted pics? So YES, I would use a pick on a one dimensional player like that anyday.  This is supposed to be why you trade out to get more picks in the 1st place.  Im gonna chalk it up to bad luck, but man...it took a sytem change to generate a pass rush after all the failed attempts....smh
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated....... : Rusty holds players to very high standards unless they play here in N.E. he is over on another thread saying Dunlap was not the better pick than Cunningham and that his 8.5 sacks as a rook mean nothing cuz he does nothing else... This Just In!  The Pats need a pass rush. I dont care if the player doesnt know how to ties his shoes, if he can get after the Qb, thats a plus.  We have s ucked at getting pressure for years now and how many wasted pics? So YES, I would use a pick on a one dimensional player like that anyday.  This is supposed to be why you trade out to get more picks in the 1st place.  Im gonna chalk it up to bad luck, but man...it took a sytem change to generate a pass rush after all the failed attempts....smh
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    In both cases these players could be construed as guys BB should have picked but didn't. Rusty relies on his infamous "context" in this regard which is code for "spin". He certainly can't say they couldn't get to the QB, so he says  they can do nothing else.  Same old, different day.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated....... : Freeney is a track star who probably never had more then 35 tackles in a year. Can you honestly say Russ that you wouldnt want Clay on your team? Is he not a major upgrade over Ninkovich or Cunningham??  C'mon man, take out the draft factor and comparisons to what we got in Gronk, etc and evaluate him straight up and say he is not a Player.  Then you will prove yourself to be the Ultimate Homer.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    Skip Rusty, I'll say it, I don't want that show boat on our team.  He's one guy and he's very good but so are many others and its a team game, not boxing.  I am satisfied with how this team has been developed and I'm looking forward to the season.

    All the wishing that goes on around here is silly.  I hate to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld but you play football with the team you have not the team you wish you had.  In 2001, with a collection of cast offs and many unknown, unrecognized players the PATS went to the SB and had their first win.  We didn't need Clay Matthews or someone just like him then and we don't now.  As Bill, whom you seem to wish to denigrate might say, he's not here.

     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    ok, that is totally fine. Look im not here to praise Clay and say I wish I had him, I was just responding to a thread that was brought up and trying to understand why Russ chooses to downplay him so much.  Im happy Bill has done something to adress our pas rush and Im super excited about Gronk, make no mistake.

    It doesnt mean Im gonna lie about what my eyes are telling me.  Rusty is acting like Clay blowing up running backs a few times a game is a bad thing. Name one OLB that we have that does that? Im just trying to play devils advocate because Russ makes stuff up to support his theory. Instead of saying, nice player but no thanks, he sais things like Clay didnt come on until capers got there, despite having a pro bowl berth as ar rookie w/ 10 sacks...If he did that here in N.E. he would be a Godsend, No?
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

            Bumped the old thread to make a point that hind sight is 20/20.... cleary if BB was 100% certain of the player Clay would become and the pronounced weakness of the pass D to generate a pass rush. He would of taken Clay. Proof is in the numbers, you can't call him a overated. In his first 2 years...
    Tackles    111
    Sacks    23.5
    NTs    1
    Forced Fumbles    3
    Defensive touchdowns    2

            But hey!? We are fans and we all love the pats. (most of us anyways) but second guessing BB on every move, you will come up with endless reasons to love him more or doubt him more. 

            I could sit here and make a case on how BB could of picked up every major talent that has come into the NFL for the last 3-4 years by either trading up or trading players. You can't have all the blue chips, you just can't thats why they have a cap. GM's aim for above average at every position and a few expectional players that take you to the SB.

            stop being spoiled! You can't have it all, and where would the fun be if we did?

    PS. Been reading forums for a long time, a new all-time low in cry-baby BS forced me to speak up. (er...type up!)
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]I watched alot of USC games and I feel Clay Matthews is that Ted Bruschi, Mike Vrabel type, average talent but an overachiever who plays with 150 percent on every play.  But I also think Clay Matthews is a bit overrated and might not reach the level of a Vrabel or Bruschi who by the way took years to develop into a quality starter.   Clay Matthews was a walk-on (he came from money so he didn't need a scholarship so I'm sure he turned down several scholarships to other colleges to play at USC) but he only started one year and he played with two other first round picks in Cushing and Maualaga.       Clay Matthews may be a safe pick but he'll never be the blue chip caliber player of a Jarod Mayo, that's why if the Patriots get a chance to select Ray Maualaga they should who has the ability to be the steal of the draft if he drops to the Patriots spot. 
    Posted by DuncanOrange[/QUOTE]

    I think you're dead wrong. When this guy came out his game was not one of a over achieving type of guy that guy by on lesser talent. This was a guy that ran fast, moved exceptional, jumped through the roof, short shuttled around everyone and lifted like Superman. So he comes into the nfl and what does he do? Match his great workout numbers with outstanding production and a relentless obsession for hitting any and everything with the football. How is that overrated? The guy literally see's triple teams, beats doubles and destroys single match ups. He won a Super Bowl and played a large roll in that. I love Bruschi and Vrabel, but this guy is in another league right now. Will he stay there? I doubt it, the nfl is a cruel place, but he sure is there now.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated....... : Rusty holds players to very high standards unless they play here in N.E. he is over on another thread saying Dunlap was not the better pick than Cunningham and that his 8.5 sacks as a rook mean nothing cuz he does nothing else... This Just In!  The Pats need a pass rush. I dont care if the player doesnt know how to tie his shoes, if he can get after the Qb, thats a plus.  We have s ucked at getting pressure for years now and how many wasted pics? So YES, I would use a pick on a one dimensional player like that anyday.  This is supposed to be why you trade out to get more picks in the 1st place.  Im gonna chalk it up to bad luck, but man...it took a sytem change to generate a pass rush after all the failed attempts....smh
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Yeah I read that, hilarious! Your credibility takes a hit when all you do is put on your Patriot Blue Glasses and start seeing things.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]I had sunday ticket from 2003 until now,. I just think you go too far to diminish what he does.  I saw him setting the edge last night and dont agree that he only makes plays in the backfield, and even so , thats a good thing.  I would take blowing up a few plays a game in the backfield, you wouldnt? I am not saying we should have got him either, but give the man his due In the superbowl in the most crucial play, he told the defense that the offensive was staring at him in the huddle and he had a feeling they were coming at him....he told a lineman to be ready.  Right before the snap he calls a play to the lineman and has him adjust then BOOM right at the snap, the play comes to him and he blows up the runner in the backfield and that was a big point in the game...this right after his linebackers coach told him on the sideline "look Woody(charles woodson) is gone, guys looked to him but its time for you to step up, the time is now" and he goes out and does that.....you cant talk about cerebrals if you want...but I would take him any day.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    Yes, but if he was a Patriot I am sure that Rusty Trombone would be clamoring defensive player of the year. I have witnessed many homers in my lifetime continue to beat the drum but the King takes the cake.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

     I guess the question I would ask is whether he'd excel on the Patriots? I think for most folks the answer to that is clearly YES. If I'm not mistaken we had a shot at both him and Woodley and passed on both.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]"This just in!" JayShizzle doesn't get the difference bwteen a 3-4 in GB or Pitt and the one BB runs. Just kidding, Jay, but what you keep saying sort of makes it seem like you think that. The pass rush doesn't just come from the edge in a 3-4. Why do you think he got Haynesworth and Ellis and wasn't hell bent on scouring the draft of FA for an OLB? If he had decided to keep the 3-4 base, he probably would have been more aggressive in this area to add to the Nink, Cunningham type of mix.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Because we are playing more 3-4 now.  You can make it out to be more complicated than it is, but I will just end it with this.  If Bill had a chance to add Clay right now to team, would he not?  Are his shortcomings more obvious than a Ninkovich who is a hard worker but also limited and doesnt set the edge as evidence from a game last year where Wilfork had to be moved to end to stop the bleeding of Nink getting devoured by Jake Long in the run game?

    Im done talking about Clay, he aint here....but I cant entertain this talk about a different 3-4.  If anyone understands the diff. between our read n react 3-4 and pitts attacking 3-4 I do, but it doesnt mean you cant take one player and put him in the other system. J.Harrison or Woodley wouldnt fit here either according to your logic.  I dont like Merriman, but wouldve took a chance at him had he been healthy.  Playmakers are playmakers and its not like our OLB's are Superb against the run either...so I cant understand your disdain for playmakers
    when we are lacking for them outside of Mayo
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    You remind me of a douchey college undergrad who continues to argue about politics long after he's demonstrated he has no idea what he's talking about.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    This is ridiculous. Clay Matthews is arguably the best pass rushing linebacker in the NFL, and Bellicheck made HUGE mistake not taking him. Bill is a great coach, but that was a bad decision.
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]You remind me of a douchey college undergrad who continues to argue about politics long after he's demonstrated he has no idea what he's talking about.
    Posted by e4smith[/QUOTE]

      I hope this was in regards to  RWTG guy lol
     
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    Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......

    In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated.......:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Clay Matthews Is Overrated....... : How is using a context, which is the barometer for every situaiton, or in this case for young 3-4 OLBs or just all young 4-3 OLBs, not allowed to be included? or called "spin"? Or, for this discussion, for the reasons why BB wanted to maneuver around dififerently in the 2009 draft and 2010 draft and not take one human being to play one position in his complex, team based 3-4 system? Logical reasoning is "spin"?  Even with facts when you lose on this, Babe.  You're irrational. I'll give an example: This is the equivalent of someone being an average/solid goalie in hockey during the season because the goalie plays on a offensive minded team, so his stats aren't that great looking. Exaple: Grant Fuhr Then, you would say "Grant Fuhr" sucks because his regular season numbers aren't on the same level as Tiny Thompson in the 1930s.  lol In other words, your argument, specifically centered around stats in different eras inn different hockey sytems, is a very poor argument.  The contexts would be the era he played in an the fact his team wasn't a defensive minded team, but in the playoffs, he was a great money goalie who won 4 Cups.  So, would you rather lean on regular season stats or realize Fuhr was great, but lacked eyepopping stats because of the team he played on? It's the latter for me, and for you, you would hang on the first argument. 2+2 =4, but there are other ways to get to 4, too.  You ignore contexts for your argument, which proves you either have no clue about these other elements, or exclude them specifically to hang onto a very weak premise, and it's the LATTER every single time with you. Every time. Don't start taking night classes now, Gramps.  You wouldn't pass an entry level History course.  No way. Of course you have to include potential logical reasons for why BB didn't leap at Clay Matthews in 2009 for his 3-4 defense.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I assure you I would blow you to smithereens in a history contest wonderboy.


    The problem with context in your case is that it is mostly just your opinion.

     

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