Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

    How about to form a militia.  The founding fathers didn't give a rip about hunting or self defense.  The 2nd amendment exists because of the history of nearly every government in the world becoming corrupt and oppressing the people. 

    When the British didn't like us not paying taxes and decided to march on down with their guns we didn't fight them off with sticks. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Thank You!  We all wanna live with out guns, but once over half of population have them, u bet your arrse, I need one too. Its too late to stop now. Everytime a mass murder happens, thousands more go get strapped.  I went to get certified last year because I know when people cant feed their families, they wont starve, they will invade your home and thats my reason. Also if corrupt gvmnt comes to take me to a concentration camp??  Idk, but I aint taking chances. I will go out in blaze. problem is most people get guns for their fellow citizens and not for the impeding revolution. Even most police want people to have guns. A cop told me this because it makes their jobs easier.

     

    Problem is most folks dont even know or cant fathom the gvmt being against them and those sheep are still sleep and thats why people still entertain voting instead of getting thse british bankers out our Money supply. We never defeated the british, they just let us have a country that and they take our money.

     Why u think JFK was killed??? he was against those secret societies and they offed him. Thats why its a joke if you think Obama controls anything. He is a puppet. The fact that he hasnt even been spit on let alone had an attempt on his life, means he is following the agenda.

    "Give me control of a countrys money and i care not what rules it makes"  ROckefeller!

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL!

    Trust me, dude, if the US government ever decides to come after you, whatever arsenal you've got is going to be like throwing toothpicks against a hurricane.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm inclined to agree.  I'd also like to take exception to the notion repeatedly expressed in this thread that if one is in favor of common sense firearms control legislation one must be a 'liberal' (whatever that means).  As I understand that term as used in this thread a 'liberal' has some fuzzy headed idealistic view of the world wherein if we all sat around the campfire holding hands, singing Kumbaya and passing around a doob all would be right with the world and no one would ever wish to harm anyone else.  If not, then that's certainly the impression I'm getting.  And, trust me, I'm nobody's liberal, particularly by that definition.  

    Common sense firearms control legislation, by my definition, might, just might mind you, address the issue of anyone being able to load up a box truck with legally purchased firearms in Virginia and selling them in New York, for example.  

    Oh, and I happen to be retired military, run my own contract security firm and have an ongoing partnership with four police departments.

    [/QUOTE]


    Most of us who are retired military know that guns in the hands of civilians is dangerous.

    Doesn't mean I'm an advocate of removing the right from the Constitution. Just means I'm aware that, under pressure, most people can't shoot straight...even some military men have accuracy problems under great stress.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    Dont bother on this argument - remember the Liberals are always right! As a resident of the Communistwealth of Masshysteria, all I can say is the newspapers and local TV news are all liars in all these reports of shootings and gun violence. AS Mass has the strictest gunlaws in the US obviously there are NO guns in the hands of criminals, so all these crimes must be made up!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

    How about to form a militia.  The founding fathers didn't give a rip about hunting or self defense.  The 2nd amendment exists because of the history of nearly every government in the world becoming corrupt and oppressing the people. 

    When the British didn't like us not paying taxes and decided to march on down with their guns we didn't fight them off with sticks. 

    [/QUOTE]


    'well regulated' militia. It's called The National Guard.

    [/QUOTE]


    According to you, but the 2nd ammendment existed before the National Guard.  It's safe to assume that if the founding fathers saw the National Guard as their idea of a well organized militia that was so critical to this country they put it in the constitution than they would have just gone ahead and created the National Guard.  They didn't.

    [/QUOTE]

    They didn't really like standing armies. The second amendment envisions a society where the military power (the weapons) are in the hands of the people, who are called to duty when war is declared, and then go back to their homes when it is over. We are so far from that vision now that talking about original intent when it comes to military policy or gun policy is absurd. The world just isn't the same as it was in the late eighteenth century. 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    I don't see why there is any fog regarding the reason for the 2nd Amendment.

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

    The right granted isn't to have a militia. The right granted is for people to KEEP and bear arms...... so they can establish a militia to keep a free state secure.

    The reason they give for granting the right has nothing whatsoever to do with limiting the right itself.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to AZPAT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How about just a LITTLE common sense.... You know... good, ole fashion common sense:

    1. Most violent crimes are commited in the heat of a moment.

    2. Most violent crimes are commited by men (around 86%): testosterone makes the male of the species more prone to acts of violence (that is why a bull moose during rutting season is more dangerous than a bear) and our culture teaches guys to be be tough, not to back down, etc.

    3. Most violent crimes are commited by men over 15 (testosterone kicking in...)

    4. Most violent crimes committed by men between the ages of 18 and 30 (no surprise there)

    5. While men who let themselves become violent kill, a handy gun is the weapon of choice when available.

    6. Alchohol use is correlated with violence (people are more likely to become violent when using alchohol than when not - no surprise).

     

    So common sense does point to the tag phrase that "people kill". But since most murders are done in the heat of the moment the clear truth is that had there been no gun available at that moment then the chance of an attempted murder drops and the success of a murder attmept drops (guns are more deadly than other available means to kill).

    There is also the huge, overwhelming correlation between men and murderers and also a very high correlation with age and so with testosterone levels as well.

    So perhaps only women and men over say 45 should be allowed to carry guns.  Of course there will not be an agreement on this. And I am not wanting to drum up a heated debate. But I am wanting to drum up a little reflection on cause and effect with the application of common sense.

    Who disagrees that a pedophile should not be let around kids? I expect no one here would disagree. So by the same token, common sense, no perpetrator of a violent crime - and no person who has been decalred mentally unstable - should be allowed to own or posses a gun. Doing so should be illegal for those persons. THat is perhaps a concept most reasonable people could agree with - or at least appreciate the reasons for.

    Similarly common sense says guns and alchohol do not mix. Guns in bars are just a tragedy waiting to happen. And so too at football games. Considering the number of drunk jerks (as opposed to someone is is just drunk) at sporting events keeping guns out while they let everyone drink till they can hardly walk is a good thing. A very good thing.

    Clearly we will not all agree here with any one perspective, including the ones I touch on. But to be blind to the most obvious and simple things, and to be antogonistic, demeaning and even angry towards someone who wants to reduce gun related violence is just ... well... lets say it is just being dogmatic and lacking common sense.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    OK... I'm for organizing a ban on testosterone. Seeing how THAT's teh obvious catalyst to this WHOLE problem. If we can't ban that, then let's outlaw men.

    "common sense, no perpetrator of a violent crime - and no person who has been decalred mentally unstable - should be allowed to own or posses a gun. "

    Question: Wjere have you been low these many years of attempts to crack down on owning guns? Al states require background checks before sales are complete. So, there goes your "common sense" contention as stated. It's already being done, and I have no problem with it. That is a reasonable step to take. But, while we're cracking down on legit folks trying to purchase a gun or any kind, where is the assault of criminals? The best I know of is the "trading them in for gift cards". Noble gesture, but the majority of guns truned in are NOT those related to crimes. Most have been old relics of nominal value, or thiose that have not been fired in a long time, or thoise that will not fire. Meanwhile, I'm still reading about shootings during home invasions, armed robberies, and criminal events gone bad (drug buys). Fact is that criminals WILL get guns.

    Here's a thought. Instead of making new gun laws, why not enforce those already in place? Let's add, say, 25 years to any sentence for armed robbery, if a gun is involved? Include this addition to other participants, even if they did not have a/the gun. You say most guns are acquired via breakins? OK, let's add the same 25 years to the sentence if a gun is stolen in the break in. Let's start making criminals fully responsible for their crimes, no more Nice Guy, let's look at how he was raised, his teachers had it in for him, Susie jilted him at the prom, too many booze commercials, excuses.

    Get tough on the criminal, NOT the public. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Az - while we obviously have different perspectives on some of this we might not be as far apart on some of it as your tone indicates. In fact, why use a demeaning tone at all?

    Here are some thoughts in response to some of your comments:

    1. This country already has a large population locked up and no indication of letting up. In fact prison populations in this cuntry are rising, not falling. Even as you insist regarding gun laws we already have some reasonablly tough criminal law (we might both agree that we could each find some apect that could use adjusting).

    Regarding the above: According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010

    The imprisonment rate varies widely by state; Louisiana surpasses this by about 100, but Maine incarcerates at about a fifth this rate. A report released 28 February 2008, indicates that more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States are in prison.[5] The United States has less than 5% of the world's population[6] and 23% of the world's prison population

    According to Wikipedia (and I am not insisting on the exact value of this source but mearly that it is verifiable and likely reasonably accurate): The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world

     

    Regarding gun laws - there are many states where guns can be purchased without the sort of background checks you imlpy are required. Gun shows in some areas are notorious for being able to circumvent such regulations.

    So while I do not demean you (as your tone with comments like "where have you been" and "lets outlaw testosterone") , I do wonder why you took a hostile approach to me and to what I had to say. Seems like there is a pattern of responses like yours. Wouldn't it make more sense to acknowledge each others approaches and perspectives and see if in fact there is common ground? Because if we are all honest and not hypocritical there must be some overlap.

    Going back to the testosterone thing - are you saying that you do not believe that it is a factor in behavior at all? If it does have an effect (being a pretty potent drug, though made naturally by the body, it should not surprise anyone who has taken a position that SOME drugs should be illegal) then why not talk about it in reasonable terms? It is not a matter of changing what our bodies do but of controlling our impulses when we start to consider doing evil things. You know, like taking out a gun and shooting a girl friend or wife. If a person shows that they cannot control violent impulses then they should not be allowed to have a gun... or pilot a plane perhaps. Just like if a person drinks and drives and killswhile DUI they should not be allowed to drive a car (and depending on specifics perhaps they should be in jail? - that one can be discussed)...

    To others reading all the good and bad running through this thread... instead of getting dismissive and demeaning how about having conversations where points are considered and not simply dismissed with such ignorant labels as "you liberal" or "you conservative jerk"?

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    <But it is culture that determines people's attitudes toward the amendment and that makes it so difficult in our current political landscape to interpret it less rigidly or change it.>

    I'm inclined to concur in this view.  Otherwise how could we have a 5-4 divided Supreme Court on whether or not the following sentence is about individuals or well-regulated militias:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    You could have a divided view because justices have a political agenda that supersedes what is written.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

    How about to form a militia.  The founding fathers didn't give a rip about hunting or self defense.  The 2nd amendment exists because of the history of nearly every government in the world becoming corrupt and oppressing the people. 

    When the British didn't like us not paying taxes and decided to march on down with their guns we didn't fight them off with sticks. 

    [/QUOTE]


    'well regulated' militia. It's called The National Guard.

    [/QUOTE]


    According to you, but the 2nd ammendment existed before the National Guard.  It's safe to assume that if the founding fathers saw the National Guard as their idea of a well organized militia that was so critical to this country they put it in the constitution than they would have just gone ahead and created the National Guard.  They didn't.

    [/QUOTE]

    They didn't really like standing armies. The second amendment envisions a society where the military power (the weapons) are in the hands of the people, who are called to duty when war is declared, and then go back to their homes when it is over. We are so far from that vision now that talking about original intent when it comes to military policy or gun policy is absurd. The world just isn't the same as it was in the late eighteenth century. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The intent means nothing. The statement of fact is that people have the right to KEEP and bear arms.

    It is impossible to construe the word KEEP in that context as anything other than to own and hold privately.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Legalizing drugs would probably have many times more the impact on homicide that tougher gun laws would.

    [/QUOTE]


    Rephrase this, I don't know who's side your on.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm on the side that abides by the Constitution and follows the procedure in place to change it.

    As far as drugs, many of the homicides occur because druga are illegal. Change that, and watch the deaths drop.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zeitgeist49's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Many  countries  throughout  the  world, like  Japan, England, Switzerland, France, Sweden  and  many  others  have  much  stricter  gun  control  laws  than  the  U.S.  And  the  results  are  indisputable.  In  1980,  Japan  which  banned  hand  guns,  had  8  murders  by  handgun.  The  U.S.  in  1980  had  over  16,000.  And  in  the  last  few  years, Americans  murder  each  other  with  handguns  at  a  rate  of  about  34,000  a  year.  Do  your  own  research.  The  point  is  having  stricter  and  more  reasonable  gun  laws  doesn't  eliminate  murder.  It  just  severely  reduces the  number  of  murders.  And  total  population  numbers  are  not  a  good  argument  against  gun  control.  Just  take  a  look  at  the  percentages  of  populations  that  are  murdered  by  handgun.  There's  a  reason almost  all  industrialized  nations  have  stricter  gun  laws.  They  work.  But  they  don't  eliminate  murder  altogether.  Guns  are  a  big  money  making  industry  in  the  U.S.    That's  why  there  will  never  be  sensible  hand  gun  legislation.  Our  politicians  are  all  bought  and  paid  for.  The  other  dynamic  is  that  unless  an  individual  has  personally  suffered  because  of  gun  violence, they  don't  see  it  as  a  big  problem.  They  just  choose  to  live  in  their  insulated  world. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The global rate of homicides is 7.6 per 100k. The US rate is 4.2. Not too bad a price to pay for freedom.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, I believe you are honest in your attempt to add some numbers to this discussion (for some at least it is a discussion and not a new opportunity to bash). But the numbers are a little misleading. The world as a whole has a very wide range of levels of cultural violence. There are significant areas that have high rates of violent crime and murder due to the state of their culture. But if you compare the USA to Europe and Japan and essentially the developed world there is a different story: the rates of murder in the USA are actually higher when compared with our more "civilized" peers.

    TO all I recommend the book THE BETTER ANGELS OF OUR NATURE: Why Violence Has Declined by Stgeven Pinker. It is not a short book and contains a good bit of cited studies and some reasonable correlations between possible cause and effect. When its arguements are looked at in total it presents a case which is both interesting and potentially invaluable.

    Reducing violent crime has never been simply and only a matter of having stern laws.

    ANother thought: If we recognize road rage as something we have ALL witnessed (and so it is not so uncommon in our country) why would we think that everyone - including those who rage behid the wheel and act in such a way as to endanger us and our families - should carry a gun? And if we agree that some should not then why is there so much bile when someone points out a situation where someone who should not have been reasonablly, legally carrrying a gun was and used it to indulge their inner evils?

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good for Costas.  I'm a gun owner and avid hunter myself, but the US needs more sensible gun control.  It's just too easy for anyone to get a handgun. There's way more gun crime in the US than any other civilized first-world nation. The reason is because guns are too easy to get. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    How dare you say that. How are the military wannabees going to dream about saving the country from the commies if they can't stroke their guns? Oh wait the commies are gone. Maybe the Canadians will invade.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, no, no - it's not the threat of foreign invasion; it's to protect us all from the federal government.  Of course, no one has ever explained to me how all those privately held firearms are going to stack up against, oh, say the 82nd Airborne or a Marine Expeditionary Unit.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'll explain it for you.

    I suspect those privately held firearms would stack up against the 82nd Airborne better than the butter knives you would have us brandishing. LOL

    I'll take the 260,000,000 Americans with an assortment of small arms and you take the 16,000 man 82nd Airborne. I don't like your chances.

    Seriously, if such a horrid dilemma ever became real, I strongly doubt American soldiers would readily kill their own people earnestly. (Of course in the case of civil war, all bets are off).

    The far greater danger would be foreign troops acting at the behest of our government. They would have not nearly so many qualms about wasting us.

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to 49Patriots's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good for Costas.  I'm a gun owner and avid hunter myself, but the US needs more sensible gun control.  It's just too easy for anyone to get a handgun. There's way more gun crime in the US than any other civilized first-world nation. The reason is because guns are too easy to get. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    How dare you say that. How are the military wannabees going to dream about saving the country from the commies if they can't stroke their guns? Oh wait the commies are gone. Maybe the Canadians will invade.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, no, no - it's not the threat of foreign invasion; it's to protect us all from the federal government.  Of course, no one has ever explained to me how all those privately held firearms are going to stack up against, oh, say the 82nd Airborne or a Marine Expeditionary Unit.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're trying to reason with Conservatives, you're wasting your time.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Patently UNFAIR. Patently rude. Just as it was rude for those in this thread to call someone a LIBERAL as if it were an insult and proof of some inherent badness or ingorance. Names and labeling just serve to keep us from listening to each other well enough (yes, WELL enough) to see the reasonably sizable common ground and find some ways to come to common terms rather than the infantile (yes, INFANTILE) name calling that I hear all the time and have read here way too often.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    I just looked out my window----the damn national guard is no where to be found. How am I gonna protect my family if the need arises? 

       Serious question, can someone answer this for me?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Second Amendment is about states fearing Federal takeover of their rights. And it is clear that they felt assuring the individual had the right to keep weapons was the best protection against Federal takeover.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sure they did.  How would that workout now, do you think?  

    [/QUOTE]


    I think it can be argued that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is still a viable impediment to governmental oppression in any nation.

    [/QUOTE]


    What I really like about the way you are putting your own position forward is that you are not demeaning anyone. THere is way way too much of that going on here both in the forum and in this country.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    Great. Good luck with that ... Paranoia is a bad irrational reason to expose other members of your household to the risks of guns around.

    If you live alone fine.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

         Err...you think that protecting yourself, your home, and your family from burglars is a weak argument? LOL!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering that far, far, far more people are hurt by gun accidents in the home vis a vis burglars shot by homeowners; yes, it is an extremely weak argument.

    Making it even weaker is that the average gun owner in a home, unless s/he has served in the military, has never shot a human being before. Those who have served know it is a VERY different experience than shooting at a range; the target is moving while your blood and adrenaline are pumping out of control.

    Further, if you're home is invaded by a burglar, that burglar is doing it on his time, not yours, while his senses are heightened whereas yours are dull. The intruder has the clear advantage of surprise; even moreso if he had the competence to reconnoiter your house beforehand. You stagger down the stairs in your bright, white T-shirt, while the burglar is dressed head-to-toe in black. If the burglar is armed, he likely does this for a living, which means he is likely to have been in this scenario before; likely to move more skillfully in the dark; likely to be more cool under pressure; and perhaps likely to have more firepower than you.

    If you have kids in you're home, then it is most likely that your weapon is locked away and not loaded. (If this is not the case, you're a damned fool just begging for a home accident, as children, above all else, are curious beyond curious.) While you're fumbling around getting your ammo in the gun, the burglar may get the bead on you. But, let's suppose you are quiet and fast. You run down the stairs and yell, "Freeze!" but the burglar, who is already prepard for a conflict, has scounted out the best defense position from gunfire. He dives; you shoot and miss, creating a big noise. The burglar returns fire from behind the kitchen island.  Bullets are now flying, which of course is when your six-your-old, frightened by strange noise, saunters in the room and calls out, "Daddy?"

     

    Still, most gun advocates on this board--at least, those who have never shot at a human being--will continue to advocate this "protect my home" position. And that, right there, is the biggest problem with guns. Very few of us would pick a fist fight with Brandon Spikes, but a gun gives a man who is overmatched in a fight the false courage to believe he is on equal standing. The sands of Iraq are littered with such Iraqis.

    You are far better off to have a good lock system for your doors and windows; an alarm system with piercing sound; lights illuminating the perimeter of your house...and, if all that fails, a calm demeanor and the good sense to know that your family is more important than your valuables, and you are statistically much more likely to hurt yourself or your family members than to actually take out a skilled burglar.

    [/QUOTE]

         Sorry...I'm not going to risk putting the well being of my family in the hands of a "skilled" burglar. I'd much rather shoot the bum right between the eyes...then rely on his humanity. Besides, how many burglars are of the Alexanderl Mundy/skilled persuasion? The majority are thugs belonging to gangs, or drug users.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll be simple:  All the gun control in the world will not do anything.  The criminally minded will always find a way around the laws.  It is not the law abiding citizens which are the problem.

    [/QUOTE]


    Really? OK. Let me ask you how you explain the rate of domestic violence and that a large number of murders are committed by family members or boy friends? There is a lot of murder in this country that is not done by a stranger robbing you in your home or elsewhere.

    I do not mean to imply that one should not be able to protect onesself, even more so in their own home. I am responding to the point made above.

    The fact of the matter is that many killings are done in the heat of the moment and by someone known to the victim.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to AZPAT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 49Patriots's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AZPAT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cultural problems: Abortion, legalization of marijuana, violence in movies and on TV, provacative dressing of young ladies (especially HS kids), more "takers" than "givers" (and society being OK with it), acceptance/multiple "another chance" for DUI (Hey! EVERYONE does it!)

    Which ones do you want to get rid of? Or, is "culture", or what should be acceptable in society, dependent on what you determine it to be?

    Noe, be careful! Some of these have been legislated, sort of like the 2nd amendment. Ought to be interesting.

    [/QUOTE]


    When are you guys going to secede?!! God, take Oklahoma, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and all those other clown states with you! Funny, the most advocate pro-gun Americans are usually Right-Wingers, but you list Liberal beliefs as the cause of gun violence.

    Abortions is no one's business, if you don't think it's right, don't do it! No one is force you to have an abortion! It's a choice between a woman and her doctor, not you and your bible and Authoritarian style of government!

    Marijuana is no more lethal to your brain than Alcohol, why don't we criminalize Alcohol again while we're at it, huh? How many times have you heard that a guy was so high from Marijuana that he started a fight in a bar...or drove high and killed someone? Why is it illegal? 

    Violence in movies and TV? Yeah, like Football? Should football be illegal?

    Provacative style of dress by young ladies? Dude, we're you born in the 50s or something? It's no one's business what a woman wants to wear! Funny how you're fighting for your second ammendment rights, but you're all for taking away someone's first ammenment rights.

    More takers than givers? The 47% of Americans who don't pay taxes consists of the elderly, veterans and people who manage to take advantage of tax breaks like child tax deductions. Funny how when coperations take advantage of loopholes they're wise. When average joes do it they're takers. The very few who don't pay taxes because they're poor live mostly in the South, Red States pay less in taxes than Blue states! The North East and West Coast keep America a float! The rest of you, red states, are the takers around here!

     

    It's too easy to get a gun, there are too many guns in the United States! Guns don't kill people, people kill people, right? But they kill more people with guns!

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh, where to start......

    God, take Oklahoma, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and all those other clown states with you!

    We'll address this on a tad bit later.

    Abortions is no one's business, if you don't think it's right, don't do it!

    Can never accuse you of paying attention to the recent news and election, can we? Hear about the mythical War On Women? How about restricting/cutting off funds for Planned Parenthood? They're not bellyaching about condoms or The Pill. I agree with yiur ascertion, though: don't like it, don't get one. But, my problem is when it's now a federal entitlement program, and is used as birth control. Totally eliminates personal responsibility after the fact. Supportes whine about how much $ the tax payer will "save" when terminating an "unwanted pregnancy" (kind of impersonal, don't you think?) I'd be perfectly happy if the fed govt (ie: MY tax dollars) would be forbidden from going that route. Need I remind you that a condom costs significantly less than $1? Now, YOU tell me which is more cost efficient. I'll wait.

    Marijuana is no more lethal to your brain than Alcohol

    It impairs judgement and reflexes. Yes, there are instances where driving high has killed people... innocent people. I believe it's called DUI, with nteh "I" standing for "influence". Check it out. Banning alcohol? Again, Sparky, reqd some history on Prohibition. Do you really suggest that America would welcome a retun to all that violence? If banned, I'll get worried when an army of stoners organize to march, er, stumble, on Washington DC. I've got 4100 that says most would never ID their right from left feet.

    Violence in movies and TV? Yeah, like Football? Should football be illegal?

    Typical libbie response. It's either "it's not as bad as...", or, in some weird way of thinking, "that's viiolent too!". Here's a solid clue: NO ONE'S DYING IN FOOTBALL GAMES. Is that simple enough? Watch the ads for these "games". I don't see anything but violence in the trailers. In fact, it's glorified, as being THE reason to buy them. Sorry, no "Reset" button in life.  

    Provacative style of dress by young ladies? Dude, we're you born in the 50s or something?

    Why, yes I was born in the 50's. If you think that dress has absolutely NOTHING to do with rape or sexual assault, you're loonier than that nut running Iran. I guess you believe it's a good thing to send your 15 year old daughter out the door for school, or the movies, or the mall looking 25. Go by a high school on a nice warm day either before or after school, and it'll look amazingly like a Adult Video Movie convention. Dressing this way DOES draw attention to themselves. Some good, some not so good. But, I'd guess that you'd feel that if the gal was totally fabric free in a park, that was OK, as she has a first amendment right to do that. Sorry, but check up on local laws regarding this behavior. BTW, I never said I'd ban prevocative dressing. My reference goes to "culture".

    The 47% of Americans who don't pay taxes consists of the elderly, veterans and people who manage to take advantage of tax breaks like child tax deductions.

    Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! You forgot to add govt pensioners, and SSI recipients. There's also welfare, extended unemployment, and food stamps. Then, there's Medicare and Medicaid. But, the 47% that Romney and you reference are those folks that would never ever vote for him or any Republican. As you state, check out the blue states. Funny how they are all operating under huge deficits, eh? Yet this is a good thing, right? California has/had the 7th biggest economy in teh WORLD, yet it's $65B in debt, with no way out. Tax payers are leaving the place. There isn't enough tax money to pay the entitlements, especially for those illegal, er, "undocumented" aliens.  As I said before, I can't wait to see what happens when the money runs out. Greece, Spain, Portugal, here we come.

    The very few who don't pay taxes because they're poor live mostly in the South

    Interesting.... I guess you never heard or were exposed to places like Roxbury, Roslindale, or Mattapan, eh? How do you explain "inner city problems", or is that a myth too? Bad schools? Underperforming students? Most kids from single parent "families"? Yessir! Only in those vile red states! LMFAO!!!!

    The North East and West Coast keep America a float! The rest of you, red states, are the takers around here!

    Now, I have to weriously doubt if you know what you're talking about or if you took Mommy's or Daddy's keyboard without permission. Sparky, the "red states" aren't driving this $16 TRILLION deficit. (That's a number with 12  zeros to the left of the decimal point.) I never knew that Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida are the main culprit os this! here I'm thinkingb that the majority of states with Republican administrations have things like lower unemployment, higher tax revenue, and better fiscal control of budgets, despite not getting the same money from teh Fed Govt! Better fiscal control means spending wisely, not handing our gobs or it, with no strings attached.  If you think that $16 TRILLION in debt is a GOOD thing, then I suggest you go to a bookstore and buy Deficits For Dummies right now.

    Funny how when coperations take advantage of loopholes they're wise.

    Proof you haven't got a clue.... Now, please tell us how these loopholes came into being? Again, be careful..... Libbies have controlled the Congress for a whole lot longer than evil Republicans have. Either they created these loopholes, or have done nothing to close them or get rid of them. They are there for whatever reason(s) they were created, mostly as part of the give and take called "government action". Which side of the fence do you fall on? Why, it's impossible for any self respecting libbie to want to keep more of what they "make", right? (Self respecting libbie.... sort of like jumbo shrimp?). If the law allows for using loopholes, why not? It's good business practice. BTW, this "tax the rich" garbage is funnier than all get out. Do you honestly, truly, and actually believe that these millionaires and billionaires aren't planning, or have ale\ready done so, to protect more of their income? If not, again, you fooling yourself. Hear what the COSTCO board of directors just did for themselves? The chairman, ou remember him, advocated raising taxes on the rich at the DNC in August. Gotta make them pay their fair share, right? Well, funny how the board voted themselves a nice stock dividend to be paid before the end of the year, so they can pay LESS taxes on it. 12% vs 8%. Who's the dummy? Or, more appropriately, who's the hypocrite? You see, libbies really don't want to pay in more than they should either. After all, it's all about the money, right?   

    Now, to address the first point you raised. Yes, it's plain to see that you expose a typical libble mentality: if you don't agree, leave. Funny how Libbies like to declare themselves as being "tolerant". Sorry, Sparky, it doesn't work that way. I have a right to bear arms. It's that simple. Deal with it. Gun violence can be dealt with more effectively if there were stronger deterents in place, NOT excuses for the bad behavior that caused the violence (sorry, but I taking a page out of the libbie book of socially excused violence).

    Character wise, libbies hate it when there's somwething they can't control. And better yet, what's going to happen when the money runs out and the music stops, when no one is left to suppoert the takers. Rome dies this way, too, by internal decay.  Not a comforting thought.

    [/QUOTE]

    AZ, That's the style!!!!!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great. Good luck with that ... Paranoia is a bad irrational reason to expose other members of your household to the risks of guns around.

    If you live alone fine.

    [/QUOTE]

      No, just me and and my wife. She doesnt play with the gun. Now can you answer my question?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zeitgeist49's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Many  countries  throughout  the  world, like  Japan, England, Switzerland, France, Sweden  and  many  others  have  much  stricter  gun  control  laws  than  the  U.S.  And  the  results  are  indisputable.  In  1980,  Japan  which  banned  hand  guns,  had  8  murders  by  handgun.  The  U.S.  in  1980  had  over  16,000.  And  in  the  last  few  years, Americans  murder  each  other  with  handguns  at  a  rate  of  about  34,000  a  year.  Do  your  own  research.  The  point  is  having  stricter  and  more  reasonable  gun  laws  doesn't  eliminate  murder.  It  just  severely  reduces the  number  of  murders.  And  total  population  numbers  are  not  a  good  argument  against  gun  control.  Just  take  a  look  at  the  percentages  of  populations  that  are  murdered  by  handgun.  There's  a  reason almost  all  industrialized  nations  have  stricter  gun  laws.  They  work.  But  they  don't  eliminate  murder  altogether.  Guns  are  a  big  money  making  industry  in  the  U.S.    That's  why  there  will  never  be  sensible  hand  gun  legislation.  Our  politicians  are  all  bought  and  paid  for.  The  other  dynamic  is  that  unless  an  individual  has  personally  suffered  because  of  gun  violence, they  don't  see  it  as  a  big  problem.  They  just  choose  to  live  in  their  insulated  world. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The global rate of homicides is 7.6 per 100k. The US rate is 4.2. Not too bad a price to pay for freedom.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, I believe you are honest in your attempt to add some numbers to this discussion (for some at least it is a discussion and not a new opportunity to bash). But the numbers are a little misleading. The world as a whole has a very wide range of levels of cultural violence. There are significant areas that have high rates of violent crime and murder due to the state of their culture. But if you compare the USA to Europe and Japan and essentially the developed world there is a different story: the rates of murder in the USA are actually higher when compared with our more "civilized" peers.

    TO all I recommend the book THE BETTER ANGELS OF OUR NATURE: Why Violence Has Declined by Stgeven Pinker. It is not a short book and contains a good bit of cited studies and some reasonable correlations between possible cause and effect. When its arguements are looked at in total it presents a case which is both interesting and potentially invaluable.

    Reducing violent crime has never been simply and only a matter of having stern laws.

    ANother thought: If we recognize road rage as something we have ALL witnessed (and so it is not so uncommon in our country) why would we think that everyone - including those who rage behid the wheel and act in such a way as to endanger us and our families - should carry a gun? And if we agree that some should not then why is there so much bile when someone points out a situation where someone who should not have been reasonablly, legally carrrying a gun was and used it to indulge their inner evils?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    You keep comparing apples and oranges.

    Japan is 98.5% Japanese. Canada is similarly white. UK is 92% white.

    The racial disharmony in the US cannot be compared to these places. Add in the fact we have half as many illegal immigrants as the entire population of Canada and you are just missing the mark regarding what might work there vs what will work here.

    I have no problem with some sensible gun control. But the problem faced is a collection of wingnuts that will never stop at that. You know the type. Those who would stretch the 2nd Amendment to mean you can join the National Guard. You can't have a reasonable discussion and come to a reasonable solution with persons like that.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to jerh5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just looked out my window----the damn national guard is no where to be found. How am I gonna protect my family if the need arises? 

       Serious question, can someone answer this for me?

    [/QUOTE]


    Waste them with your butter knife.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

    How about to form a militia.  The founding fathers didn't give a rip about hunting or self defense.  The 2nd amendment exists because of the history of nearly every government in the world becoming corrupt and oppressing the people. 

    When the British didn't like us not paying taxes and decided to march on down with their guns we didn't fight them off with sticks. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Thank You!  We all wanna live with out guns, but once over half of population have them, u bet your arrse, I need one too. Its too late to stop now. Everytime a mass murder happens, thousands more go get strapped.  I went to get certified last year because I know when people cant feed their families, they wont starve, they will invade your home and thats my reason. Also if corrupt gvmnt comes to take me to a concentration camp??  Idk, but I aint taking chances. I will go out in blaze. problem is most people get guns for their fellow citizens and not for the impeding revolution. Even most police want people to have guns. A cop told me this because it makes their jobs easier.

     

    Problem is most folks dont even know or cant fathom the gvmt being against them and those sheep are still sleep and thats why people still entertain voting instead of getting thse british bankers out our Money supply. We never defeated the british, they just let us have a country that and they take our money.

     Why u think JFK was killed??? he was against those secret societies and they offed him. Thats why its a joke if you think Obama controls anything. He is a puppet. The fact that he hasnt even been spit on let alone had an attempt on his life, means he is following the agenda.

    "Give me control of a countrys money and i care not what rules it makes"  ROckefeller!

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL!

    Trust me, dude, if the US government ever decides to come after you, whatever arsenal you've got is going to be like throwing toothpicks against a hurricane.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm inclined to agree.  I'd also like to take exception to the notion repeatedly expressed in this thread that if one is in favor of common sense firearms control legislation one must be a 'liberal' (whatever that means).  As I understand that term as used in this thread a 'liberal' has some fuzzy headed idealistic view of the world wherein if we all sat around the campfire holding hands, singing Kumbaya and passing around a doob all would be right with the world and no one would ever wish to harm anyone else.  If not, then that's certainly the impression I'm getting.  And, trust me, I'm nobody's liberal, particularly by that definition.  

    Common sense firearms control legislation, by my definition, might, just might mind you, address the issue of anyone being able to load up a box truck with legally purchased firearms in Virginia and selling them in New York, for example.  

    Oh, and I happen to be retired military, run my own contract security firm and have an ongoing partnership with four police departments.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for a reasonable voice that illustrates how ignorant and wrongfully demeaning the use of labels has become. If you go right to thinking "that @#$% liberal" or "that @#$% conservative" you ought to take a BIG step back and think "perhaps this guy might not be a jerk... why does he take that position then?" You may not end up agreeing but you will at least be thinking with your brain and not your .... well, you know what.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Salcon's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh by the way, I've heard every story about why people should own guns.  Other than hunting, they're all pretty weak.

    [/QUOTE]

    How about to form a militia.  The founding fathers didn't give a rip about hunting or self defense.  The 2nd amendment exists because of the history of nearly every government in the world becoming corrupt and oppressing the people. 

    When the British didn't like us not paying taxes and decided to march on down with their guns we didn't fight them off with sticks. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Thank You!  We all wanna live with out guns, but once over half of population have them, u bet your arrse, I need one too. Its too late to stop now. Everytime a mass murder happens, thousands more go get strapped.  I went to get certified last year because I know when people cant feed their families, they wont starve, they will invade your home and thats my reason. Also if corrupt gvmnt comes to take me to a concentration camp??  Idk, but I aint taking chances. I will go out in blaze. problem is most people get guns for their fellow citizens and not for the impeding revolution. Even most police want people to have guns. A cop told me this because it makes their jobs easier.

     

    Problem is most folks dont even know or cant fathom the gvmt being against them and those sheep are still sleep and thats why people still entertain voting instead of getting thse british bankers out our Money supply. We never defeated the british, they just let us have a country that and they take our money.

     Why u think JFK was killed??? he was against those secret societies and they offed him. Thats why its a joke if you think Obama controls anything. He is a puppet. The fact that he hasnt even been spit on let alone had an attempt on his life, means he is following the agenda.

    "Give me control of a countrys money and i care not what rules it makes"  ROckefeller!

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL!

    Trust me, dude, if the US government ever decides to come after you, whatever arsenal you've got is going to be like throwing toothpicks against a hurricane.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm inclined to agree.  I'd also like to take exception to the notion repeatedly expressed in this thread that if one is in favor of common sense firearms control legislation one must be a 'liberal' (whatever that means).  As I understand that term as used in this thread a 'liberal' has some fuzzy headed idealistic view of the world wherein if we all sat around the campfire holding hands, singing Kumbaya and passing around a doob all would be right with the world and no one would ever wish to harm anyone else.  If not, then that's certainly the impression I'm getting.  And, trust me, I'm nobody's liberal, particularly by that definition.  

    Common sense firearms control legislation, by my definition, might, just might mind you, address the issue of anyone being able to load up a box truck with legally purchased firearms in Virginia and selling them in New York, for example.  

    Oh, and I happen to be retired military, run my own contract security firm and have an ongoing partnership with four police departments.

    [/QUOTE]


    Most of us who are retired military know that guns in the hands of civilians is dangerous.

    Doesn't mean I'm an advocate of removing the right from the Constitution. Just means I'm aware that, under pressure, most people can't shoot straight...even some military men have accuracy problems under great stress.

    [/QUOTE]


    And that is one reason why everyone being armed, like in a darkened movie theater where chaos and confusion would ensue, is no reasonable way to be safe in public.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Dont bother on this argument - remember the Liberals are always right! As a resident of the Communistwealth of Masshysteria, all I can say is the newspapers and local TV news are all liars in all these reports of shootings and gun violence. AS Mass has the strictest gunlaws in the US obviously there are NO guns in the hands of criminals, so all these crimes must be made up!

    [/QUOTE]


    Whether I agree or disagree with you on your position, saying "remember the Liberals are always right" is the mark of a... well, you change the word to Conservative and see if you think the author of the remark was being anything other than absurd (I am being as nioce as I can about this).

    Why is it that so many PEOPLE have to be rude and dehumanizing to those who do not agree wit them?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Second Amendment is about states fearing Federal takeover of their rights. And it is clear that they felt assuring the individual had the right to keep weapons was the best protection against Federal takeover.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sure they did.  How would that workout now, do you think?  

    [/QUOTE]


    I think it can be argued that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is still a viable impediment to governmental oppression in any nation.

    [/QUOTE]


    What I really like about the way you are putting your own position forward is that you are not demeaning anyone. THere is way way too much of that going on here both in the forum and in this country.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I've tried to not personally attack anybody here for a long while now. Except Rusty and his fake accounts.

    Of course the whole liberal/concervative thing is a farce anyway. Few lives will significantly change no matter who is in power. They both simply dance to the tune of their masters and throw us the crumbs.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Costas uses the Jevon Belcher tregedy to preach gun control at halftime........

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    You keep comparing apples and oranges.

    Japan is 98.5% Japanese. Canada is similarly white. UK is 92% white.

    The racial disharmony in the US cannot be compared to these places. Add in the fact we have half as many illegal immigrants as the entire population of Canada and you are just missing the mark regarding what might work there vs what will work here.

    [/QUOTE]

    Now it comes out . . . it's all the blacks and hispanics . . . 

    If everyone was white there'd be no gun violence . . . 

    PS: Toronto is way more racially and ethnically diverse than Boston . . . and has a lower murder rate. 

     

     

Share