Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

         Oakland Raiders DE/OLB Derrick Burgess is in the final year of his contract with the team. The 6'2", 260lb. pass rusher could be just what the doctor ordered for the Pats: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Oakland/WWHI
    /2009/wwhi050909.htm
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    I honestly think that they are satisfied with what they have. Why bring in a one year fix 4-3 end? Better to move forward with youth. If Crable and/or Redd isn't the answer as a 3-down OLB, they've got Woods for running downs, TBC for passing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    the raiders were shopping him during the draft,but i doubt they will let him go now,or to the pats.as for the statement to the pats being happy with what they got.this could be true,but what a disaster it will be if they dont work out with a bunch of unproven players.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    I doubt BB would be interested. If they want a cheap option, TBC is already on the team and the same player. If they wanted a vet option, they wouldn't have traded Vrabel. Burgess is a poor choice in terms of cost and athleticism.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonnyCorlione. Show SonnyCorlione's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    Well, the only way to know if this makes sense or not is what his price tag would be.  My guess is he would ask for a huge deal and that's just not going to happen.  There is no question though - he can apply pressure.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

         Burgess can play in a 3-4. Heres' more on him (article is from Aug,. 2008):

         The Oakland Raiders have been working on several different scenarios in Training Camp but one thing remains the same; no one can handle Derrick Burgess. He has been wearing out whoever has been placed in front of him. He has appeared unblockable. The Raiders offensive tackle positions are still a work in progress and based on Offensive Line Coach Tom Cable's resume they'll be ready to go on the eighth of September.

         Teams have to game plan against Derrick Burgess due to the fact that he is that good. He had for him an off season last year and he dealt with the setback of an injury that slowed him. He still finished the season with 40 tackles and tied for the team lead with eight sacks. Despite a rare off season spending spree bringing in new talent, he didn't receive the new contract he was after and the hope is he will after the season is over.

         Burgess came into camp ready for work. As usual, the defense as a whole is ahead of the offense in training camp and Burgess is healthy and back to being his usual destructive self. The 6'2" 260 lb. DE remains a fast, aggressive pass rushing force and a player to watch for the Oakland Raiders. To limit the damage of Derrick Burgess teams have used tight ends to double team him with offensive tackles. He has also experienced teams using both tight ends and running backs to chip him to slow him down.

         To adjust to this tactic the Raiders have Burgess pulling double duty working at his customary DE position as well as OLB. Moving him around will limit obstacles between him and the opposing QB. He will draw the attention of every offensive tackle in the league and set up some one-on-one situations for one of his teammates. This is something new for him with the Raiders because he will in a sense be turned loose to create more damage.

         He has all of the traits you look for in an OLB; Instincts, Athleticism and Range. The most important being athleticism, with the ability to tackle in the open field, blitz, rush the passer and drop into coverage. An OLB operates in space and needs to have great range and speed to flow to the ball and chase down backs from sideline to sideline.

         In a 3-4 an OLB can be used to get upfield and bring pressure. I'm aware that the Raiders run a base 4-3 defense, but it must be said, that so many different things can be done with the versatility of the 3-4 defense and it is one that Defensive Coordinator Rob Ryan knows well.

         I mentioned a few months ago that the Raiders should blitz more and re-visit installing a 3-4 look on defense as a change of pace and not as the base defense and several people expressed their displeasure with the idea for several reasons. Several people made some valid points, others pulled the "that's not what the Raiders do card" dismissing any possibility of a change and dismissing it if it does happen which surprised me.

         One of the reasons mentioned was that some felt that Derrick Burgess couldn't play outside linebacker. The people making these comments were people who had no idea that in high school Derrick Burgess was an All-State selection at Outside Linebacker. In his senior season he collected 102 tackles, four sacks, an interception and he recovered a fumble and ran it back for a touchdown. He earned team MVP and defensive player of the year honors that season.

         This information won't surprise any Raider fan seeing as he was one of the best free agent additions in team history. He made it to his first Pro Bowl and set a team record with 16 sacks in his first season with the team. The optimum size for a DE is 6'5" 280 lbs., while the minimum size is 6'2" 255 lbs. He doesn't have the size to play DE in the 3-4 alignment which is one of the reasons he is working at OLB.

         He is undersized for a DE, although he can in a 4-3, but he has rare first-step explosion, he also has above average long speed. He has natural pass rush moves as well as the ability to go to counter moves when a tackle gets his hands on him. I'm requesting every member of the Raider Nation to weigh in on the topic. I pose the question "how do you feel about Derrick Burgess pulling "Double-Duty in training camp?" I love the idea of giving a veteran player something new to work on to improve his game.

         The idea of Derrick Burgess being let loose to be more of force and the defense being more versatile is a good thing. The Oakland Raiders are moving in the right direction and their defense has something to prove in 2008 and Derrick Burgess is leading the way.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    who wrote that article? derrick burgess? or his mom maybe? the guy was a nice player a few years ago on the eagles, but he can't stay healthy and besides he's too small to set the edge for the pats.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    [QUOTE]who wrote that article? derrick burgess? or his mom maybe? the guy was a nice player a few years ago on the eagles, but he can't stay healthy and besides he's too small to set the edge for the pats.
    Posted by artielang[/QUOTE]

         Burgess, at 6'2", 260lbs., is too small? Who do the Pats currently have who is a better option? The 30 year old veteran is a proven pass-rusher...getting 16 sacks a couple of years ago with the lowly Raiders. Unlike Julius Peppers, Burgess is also affordable, in terms of salary and compensation. Do you have any better ideas?

         The Pats are woefully weak at LB...and are going nowhere unless this weakness is adequately addressed: http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/sp_fbn_jason_taylor_web_15_05-15-09_22ECKB1_v2.14aae35.html 

        
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    Burgess isn't too small, but he is too short. The Pats already have a similar player who excels as a pass rusher, knows the system, and contributes on special teams. If the Pats are looking to have that kind of player on this team, they'll keep Tully Banta-Cain.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    [QUOTE]Burgess isn't too small, but he is too short. The Pats already have a similar player who excels as a pass rusher, knows the system, and contributes on special teams. If the Pats are looking to have that kind of player on this team, they'll keep Tully Banta-Cain.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

         Burgess is a two-time pro-bowler. Banta-Cain couldn't do that in his wildest dreams...even if he slept for 12 hours straight:
        

         "Burgess was signed by the Raiders for the 2005 season, and was originally signed to be a backup. By the middle of the season, he worked his way into the lineup thanks to his success as a pass rusher, most notably, he had six quarterback sacks over a three-game span. He became particularly hot at the end of the season and recorded nine over the final seven games of the year; the last sack would break Sean Jones' team record for sacks in a single season. His 16 sacks overall led the NFL and earned him his first Pro Bowl bid. Burgess finished the 2006 season with 11 sacks and earned a second Pro Bowl bid. Even though Burgess dealt with a nagging calf injury all year, he finished 2007 with eight sacks and 40 tackles."

     
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    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    Burgess could be a decent pass rushing OLB. Could we steal him from Alzheimer`s Al Davis for picks; again what is the cost. Everyone discussed how awesome the Pats secondary would be with Asmougha and now it`s how great our pass rush would be with Burgess. It would be nice to have pro-bowl caliber players at all positions, however, the team is the New England Patriots not Uncle Al`s all-world fantasy team. Contract status and cost =-effectiveness are my only concerns. Obviously BB knows his OLB pass rush situation better than any of us and if he feels he needs to bring in a pass rush specialist he will.
     
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    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    yes, i meant too small in terms of length. i guess saying too short is more accurate. belichick and caserio clearly stated that they are looking for tall edge players. anyway, he is a guy who has had some good years but is just too hampered by injuries to be considered a reliable option at this stage of his career. i really don't have an answer as to who the better option is, but i hope the pats do!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    [QUOTE]Burgess could be a decent pass rushing OLB. Could we steal him from Alzheimer`s Al Davis for picks; again what is the cost. Everyone discussed how awesome the Pats secondary would be with Asmougha and now it`s how great our pass rush would be with Burgess. It would be nice to have pro-bowl caliber players at all positions, however, the team is the New England Patriots not Uncle Al`s all-world fantasy team. Contract status and cost =-effectiveness are my only concerns. Obviously BB knows his OLB pass rush situation better than any of us and if he feels he needs to bring in a pass rush specialist he will.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

         It goes without saying that the only way that the Pats should make a trade for a decent veteran OLB/DE type, is if the price is right. If Burgess could be had for, say, a 4th round pick...great. A 3rd rounder, tops. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    [QUOTE]yes, i meant too small in terms of length. i guess saying too short is more accurate. belichick and caserio clearly stated that they are looking for tall edge players. anyway, he is a guy who has had some good years but is just too hampered by injuries to be considered a reliable option at this stage of his career. i really don't have an answer as to who the better option is, but i hope the pats do!
    Posted by artielang[/QUOTE]

         Check his stats. Burgess is 30 years old...and stands at the same height as Adalius Thomas. He's not as injury prone as you suggest.

         How long are the Pats going to wait for that perfect 10, 6'5", 260lb. OLB, with 4.6 speed? Unfortunately, guys like that have been extremely hard to find. Wouldn't a solid 8 do in the interim?

         I don't like the idea of the Pats sitting back and "hoping" that Vince Redd or Shawn Crable can fill the Vrable gap. I'd rather know that the Pats have a guy who is a proven outside pass-rusher. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    Tex, Burgess would have to come real cheap to play in foxboro.  I have no idea if he would be willing to play on the "cheap", but that's the only way I can see it happening.  But he sounds like a solid player.  My guess is the Pats will pick up some veterans in the coming weeks on the "cheap".
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    [QUOTE]     Oakland Raiders DE/OLB Derrick Burgess is in the final year of his contract with the team. The 6'2", 260lb. pass rusher could be just what the doctor ordered for the Pats: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Oakland/WWHI /2009/wwhi050909.htm  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE] well texas-the rumor has it there could be a trade in the works,but i feel a 2nd rd pick would be to much for him.maybe a 3rd,or 4th.we gave up a 4th for moss,who is far better a player.

    http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/103253
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    [QUOTE]well texas-the rumor has it there could be a trade in the works,but i feel a 2nd rd pick would be to much for him.maybe a 3rd,or 4th.we gave up a 4th for moss,who is far better a player. http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/103253
    Posted by mosseffect43[/QUOTE]

         I agree that a 2nd rounder is a bit too high a price. But, if they could get him for, say, for a 3rd and a 6th rounder, it would be a good move. The Pats currently have no one on their roster who is a proven pass rusher. Burgess is a two-time pro-bowler, albeit as a 4-3 DE.   

         At 6'2", 260lbs., Burgess seems to have the size that the Pats covet in an 3-4 OLB. The question is, can he pick up the new system quickly...cover, and  adequately defense the run?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    I could see it being a 2nd on what his performance is this year.start out as a 3rd rd pick,and if he makes a certain quota,then it could turn into a 2nd.then it would be a win win situation.the only problem is he is on his final year,and if he was to have a good year.he would want some good money.it may not be a block buster money contract,but up there to where he will be a free agent along with a dozen other pats players.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    Guess we'll see what happens, definitely making a lot of news on all the sports outlets. I always believe that competition brings out the best , and if we have lots of competition on our D, that could give us a better D next year. Having a vet like Burress play behind a line of Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren. Then lined up with Bruschi/Guyton, Mayo with Thomas at the other outside linebacker could put him up for good numbers as far as sacks. I still would like see players like Crable and Woods get some time in as well.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

         Another thing to consider about this move is how quickly BB moved to Plan B after Jason Taylor turned him down. This tells me that BB clearly isn't satisfied with the options he has on his roster at OLB...and that he realizes that he has a problem there.
     
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    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

         Heres' more on the rumored Burgess to the Patriots trade: http://www.examiner.com/x-1324-New-England-Patriots-Examiner~y2009m5d18-Are-the-Patriots-interested-in-Raiders-defensive-end-Derrick-Burgess
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    If he can be had for a cheap price like a 4th round pick then i am game but i am all set with giving up anything higher then that. He has been hurt the last two years and he has never played linebacker. If we are going to take a risk on a guy like that why not trade for Peppers in the first place? I mean other then the whole Peppers has a high price tag.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    The question about a move like this is what are you giving up for a player who is essentially a rental? Talk of a second rounder is insane unless you are positive he can be successful as a 3-4 guy, and that he can be resigned.

    I won't doubt his motivation, it is a contract year, and if here, he would no longer be playing for the Raiders. LOL.

    And at 31 a player "should" have a few prime seasons left, but he isn't signed and wants more money. His injury record is worrying, but that is generally what happens to these undersized guys when teams play them as full-time DE's. 6'2" 260 isn't meant to go full time against a 310lb OT. But his workload should be lighter playing next to a 310 lb Richard Seymour.

    All the same it would be nice to have a vet who isn't ancient in there for cheap who can cover up holes while younger guys develop.

    Burgess fits that bill. I think the only reason they probed Taylor first is because he wouldn't cost them picks. Now I worry that Al Davis will be cagey about getting burned by BB again.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    Cagey?

    I'm more worried that Al is rubber-roomy.

    Cool
     
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    Re: Could Burgess Be the Answer to the Pats' Pass Rushing Question?

    I, on the hand, am waiting to hear about how Burgess punched out some guy outside a nightclub. Heck he is Raider.....I'm almost disappointed.

     

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