cut slater, keep sims

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Sorry Jackie... special teams gunner extraordinaire only goes so far.  We have cole (who can actually play a position (CB) also.  Other guys as well.

    Quentin Sims is the real deal.  Catches balls in traffic and lands on his feet.  Red zone threat.   his performance last night was a clear breakout, similar to how thompkins has shined out of nowhere.  Sims looked a little like Vincent Jackson.

    Thompkins,Boyce,Edelman,Dobson,amendola, Sims.

     

    There's your receiver group.  with Edelman and amendolas injury history, this depth of guys who can produce on offense is critical.



    Ya cut a PRo Bowl Special Teamer for a guy who wont get on the field. Whats wrong with that?! I'll have whatever coolaide is drinking today!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    BB looks at the game of football as having 3 sides.  Offense, Defense, and Special Teams.  And they are all equally important.  The only difference being that most of the Special Teams players are a squad made up from Offense and Defense.  Slater, is the best special teams player on the team, and one of the best in the league.  While I would love for another prospect to hit the roster that could turn into a real gem down the road, I wouldn't want it to come at the expense of a current gem.  Here's an idea, cut Tebow and keep Sims. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    This guy doesn't know what he's talking about, shut this thread down.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Sorry Jackie... special teams gunner extraordinaire only goes so far.  We have cole (who can actually play a position (CB) also.  Other guys as well.

    Quentin Sims is the real deal.  Catches balls in traffic and lands on his feet.  Red zone threat.   his performance last night was a clear breakout, similar to how thompkins has shined out of nowhere.  Sims looked a little like Vincent Jackson.

    Thompkins,Boyce,Edelman,Dobson,amendola, Sims.

     

    There's your receiver group.  with Edelman and amendolas injury history, this depth of guys who can produce on offense is critical.

     



    Ya cut a PRo Bowl Special Teamer for a guy who wont get on the field. Whats wrong with that?! I'll have whatever coolaide is drinking today!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's a great point I didn't even think of. How often is he going to see the field if he makes the team? Would you play Sims over Amendola? Thompkins? Boyce? Dobson? Edelman? Sudfeld? Gronk (when healthy)? Heck in a 4 WR set I wouldn't put him in over any of those guys. So you are talking maybe 2-5 plays a game, mostly RS you might play him in and you are willing to get rid of a pro-bowl STer who sees the field at bare minimum 3 times (two kick offs and at least 1 score or 1 OT kickoff in case of 0 0 tie) but usually closer to 10-20 plays a game which he directly effects? Doesn't make much sense 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to maine12's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to maine12's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I think Slater has to stay. But if they could keep 7 O-line men it would allow for them to keep Sims. Cannon and Connolly coming of the bench you have C, G and T all covered. Both would start for other NFL teams.

     

     



    if both Cannon and Connolly comes off the bench who's your RG? The problem is OL needs rest every so often in a hurry up like we run. They get winded too. If one OL gets injured suddenly you don't have enough depth to replace them with leads to either removing the hurry up or risking the OL wearing down and not being able to close out games or worse getting Brady killed. Going 7 OL isn't wise using the hurry up which is why BB has never gone into a game with less than 8 OL

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Svitek. Hes been playing there all Preseason until last night. I think he starts there right away.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Svitek is a tackle, not a guard. He can't play OG at the same level as either Cannon or Conolly. Cannon would make our OL unstoppable when they run.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    This guy doesn't know what he's talking about, shut this thread down.



    It's not that bad. It's an interesting point of discussion at least. I understand how after a performance like last night people can get excited. It happen with Nunn too and a handful of others every year so cut coolaid a break. Don't forget the love Armstead has gotten and he hasn't even hit the field yet. At least Sims has given a reason to get excited at this point.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    What are we going to roll out 6 WR sets now?  For all the talk of Slater "only being a ST'er" he'll still see more playing time this year than Sims would if he were to make the team.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

     

    The Pats will hope to move Q. Sims to the practice squad . . . I saw him in the early practices and was impressed (I also wrote that I liked Winn at lot as a RB) . . . they already have T.J Moe and Harrison stored away for next year as wide outs and they'll start this year with Amendola and three rookies  . . . I'd say Edelman has a one year deal and he is safe for this year but he maybe replaced next  . . . given those conditions I think they will gamble they can get Sims through to the PS . . . same with Winn and if they get through it will be a "Winn" for the Pats!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    He doesn't only play on the kickoff unit making tackles, he's usually the up man/lead blocker on kick returns, usually a blocker on field goal attempts, he plays on every special teams unit and captains the squad which means he's responsible for counting heads, making sure everyone is aware of the situation, moving young players around... if all this sounds trivial to you than you're missing a big part of what team sports are about.

    In the NFL anybody could get cut, when money's involved nobody is safe, but with Slater he is money well spent.  The guy is almost always a car length ahead of every other tackler on our team on kickoffs and helps corral the returner into a corner if he doesn't make the tackle himself, he's very good.  He can play WR or SS and while nothing spectacular, he is big and fast which has to be respected.



    +1000 . . . and even if he doesn't make the tackle on the kick off or punt, he's usually right there to force the return man toward another defender.  Tackle stats don't tell the whole story. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    What are we going to roll out 6 WR sets now?  For all the talk of Slater "only being a ST'er" he'll still see more playing time this year than Sims would if he were to make the team.



    Yes . . . Slater is on the field way more than the back-ups people want to replace him with.  He makes far more of a contribution than most bottom-of-the roster guys will ever make.  

    Newsflash--kicks and punts are a huge part of the game.  Isn't there some cliche about how field position is everything?  Well kicking and punting are critical for that all-important initial field position on nearly every drive.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    Ok...  Ok...  most people here love your Jackie.  Got it.  when players get nicked up you can trot him out there.  Meanwhile Sims will be catching balls on another team.

    This idea that the 6 wr gets no playing time... Maybe he moves up the depth chart to #3.  Maybe he is rotated into a sub package for 10 plays and catches4 balls.  This talent is worth keeping since you know you need it and oh by the way...  It is a RARE talent.  Jackie can't do it.  Maybeyou keep 7 guys and let the season play out a little. then you maybe you drop Leon based on one of these rooks showing punt return capabilty.  Really... Boyce, dobson, sims.  Somebody run back kicks please.  Edelman of course, but a solid #2 returner is needed.

    I think the argument books down to which guy do you protect from being scarfed up by another team and which guy will slip unnoticed to the practice squad.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Ok...  Ok...  most people here love your Jackie.  Got it.  when players get nicked up you can trot him out there.  Meanwhile Sims will be catching balls on another team.

    This idea that the 6 wr gets no playing time... Maybe he moves up the depth chart to #3.  Maybe he is rotated into a sub package for 10 plays and catches4 balls.  This talent is worth keeping since you know you need it and oh by the way...  It is a RARE talent.  Jackie can't do it.  Maybeyou keep 7 guys and let the season play out a little. then you maybe you drop Leon based on one of these rooks showing punt return capabilty.  Really... Boyce, dobson, sims.  Somebody run back kicks please.  Edelman of course, but a solid #2 returner is needed.

    I think the argument books down to which guy do you protect from being scarfed up by another team and which guy will slip unnoticed to the practice squad.

     



    I think the problem most of have is one half of a preseason game against DB's about to be cut isn't enough to call him a rare talent yet. We just haven't seen enough of him and he's still an unproven talent. There are plenty of unproven talents that never made it in the league that had a couple great plays in preseason. Remember Nunn? Or how about Bishop? or Tate who showed potential in preseason? When it breaks down to it the question is, would he get playing time over any of the likely WR's on the current roster and do you think he's more talented than those players? But, you don't cut a proven pro-bowler that is a captain for a 1/3 aspect of a game for a rook that had a handful of plays in a half a quarter of a preseason game. Now if he could return kicks that would be his buy in. He could replace Washington at that point but they didn't really even use him on ST, except for that 1 play as a gunner.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanishPastry. Show DanishPastry's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Special teams tackle leaders for Patriots by season for the past four seasons

     

    2012

    Matt Slater - 18

    Nate Ebner - 15 

    Kyle Arrington - 13 

    Marquice Cole - 9   

     

    2011 

    Matt Slater - 18 

    Sergio Brown - 14 

    Kyle Arrington - 13 

    Tracy White - 13 

    Antwaun Molden - 9   

     

    2010 

    Tracy White - 18 

    Matt Slater - 17 

    Kyle Arrington - 12 

    Devin McCourtey - 11   

     

    2009 

    Pierre Woods - 19 

    Kyle Arrington - 18 

    Patrick Chung - 14 

    Eric Alexander - 13



    Good stats. Surprised to see the kind of impact Arrington has on ST for the entire period 2009-2012. Helps explain his big contract, being good on ST and as a slot corner.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to DanishPastry's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Special teams tackle leaders for Patriots by season for the past four seasons

     

    2012

    Matt Slater - 18

    Nate Ebner - 15 

    Kyle Arrington - 13 

    Marquice Cole - 9   

     

    2011 

    Matt Slater - 18 

    Sergio Brown - 14 

    Kyle Arrington - 13 

    Tracy White - 13 

    Antwaun Molden - 9   

     

    2010 

    Tracy White - 18 

    Matt Slater - 17 

    Kyle Arrington - 12 

    Devin McCourtey - 11   

     

    2009 

    Pierre Woods - 19 

    Kyle Arrington - 18 

    Patrick Chung - 14 

    Eric Alexander - 13

     



    Good stats. Surprised to see the kind of impact Arrington has on ST for the entire period 2009-2012. Helps explain his big contract, being good on ST and as a slot corner.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Arrington is the second best coverage guy we have (after Slater).  Long before he started getting reps at corner he was making a huge impact on special teams.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    He doesn't only play on the kickoff unit making tackles, he's usually the up man/lead blocker on kick returns, usually a blocker on field goal attempts, he plays on every special teams unit and captains the squad which means he's responsible for counting heads, making sure everyone is aware of the situation, moving young players around... if all this sounds trivial to you than you're missing a big part of what team sports are about.

    In the NFL anybody could get cut, when money's involved nobody is safe, but with Slater he is money well spent.  The guy is almost always a car length ahead of every other tackler on our team on kickoffs and helps corral the returner into a corner if he doesn't make the tackle himself, he's very good.  He can play WR or SS and while nothing spectacular, he is big and fast which has to be respected.



    i hear you,

    I have a question.

    With his speed why can't he return kO's?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    He doesn't only play on the kickoff unit making tackles, he's usually the up man/lead blocker on kick returns, usually a blocker on field goal attempts, he plays on every special teams unit and captains the squad which means he's responsible for counting heads, making sure everyone is aware of the situation, moving young players around... if all this sounds trivial to you than you're missing a big part of what team sports are about.

    In the NFL anybody could get cut, when money's involved nobody is safe, but with Slater he is money well spent.  The guy is almost always a car length ahead of every other tackler on our team on kickoffs and helps corral the returner into a corner if he doesn't make the tackle himself, he's very good.  He can play WR or SS and while nothing spectacular, he is big and fast which has to be respected.

     



    i hear you,

     

    I have a question.

    With his speed why can't he return kO's?

    [/QUOTE]

    Need speed, but also need good vision and the ability to make quick cuts to avoid potential tacklers. Also need good hands to catch and hold on to the ball when hit.  Not sure Slater has all the other skills required to be a good KR.  They've used him ocassionally, but he's fumbled at least once and hasn't looked like a guy who could break it. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    Our special teams wern't all that special last year...Sims size makes him a very interesting case...was last night a tease or a sign of what's possible.....

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    Our special teams wern't all that special last year...Sims size makes him a very interesting case...was last night a tease or a sign of what's possible.....



    Yep so why make it even weaker by removing your best player? That's like saying the pass rush wasn't great last year so we should get rid on Nink for an 6th RB in Winn

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Our special teams wern't all that special last year...Sims size makes him a very interesting case...was last night a tease or a sign of what's possible.....

     



    Yep so why make it even weaker by removing your best player?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Solid point but 6'3" WR are addictive no? This is why it's gonna suk having Tebow take a spot for a player it would be nice to have on the roster.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Our special teams wern't all that special last year...Sims size makes him a very interesting case...was last night a tease or a sign of what's possible.....

     

     



    Yep so why make it even weaker by removing your best player?

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Solid point but 6'3" WR are addictive no? This is why it's gonna suk having Tebow take a spot for a player it would be nice to have on the roster.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree and would love to keep him on PS if he clears waivers. But, as of right now he's still an unknown. He had 1 good half at this point from all we've seen so was it just that or was it more? To me if you are going to carry 7 WR's that 7th WR has to be something extra special and even though he looked good last night is a half enough to be labeled that way?

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    With all these young WR looking pretty darn solid is it possible the grim reaper now comes calling for Endlemen?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    With all these young WR looking pretty darn solid is it possible the grim reaper now comes calling for Endlemen?



    I can't see leaving the only vet on the team for Brady being Amendola. Rooks might look great in preseason but preseason and regular games are a whole different animal. Maybe they all carry it onto the regular season, maybe only half, maybe none at all. The one thing we do know is Edelman can play in regular season when healthy. Of course the if healthy part is up in the sky so who knows maybe Sims will get a second shot after all

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: cut slater, keep sims

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Ok...  Ok...  most people here love your Jackie.  Got it.  when players get nicked up you can trot him out there.  Meanwhile Sims will be catching balls on another team.

    This idea that the 6 wr gets no playing time... Maybe he moves up the depth chart to #3.  Maybe he is rotated into a sub package for 10 plays and catches4 balls.  This talent is worth keeping since you know you need it and oh by the way...  It is a RARE talent.  Jackie can't do it.  Maybeyou keep 7 guys and let the season play out a little. then you maybe you drop Leon based on one of these rooks showing punt return capabilty.  Really... Boyce, dobson, sims.  Somebody run back kicks please.  Edelman of course, but a solid #2 returner is needed.

    I think the argument books down to which guy do you protect from being scarfed up by another team and which guy will slip unnoticed to the practice squad.

     

     



    I think the problem most of have is one half of a preseason game against DB's about to be cut isn't enough to call him a rare talent yet. We just haven't seen enough of him and he's still an unproven talent. There are plenty of unproven talents that never made it in the league that had a couple great plays in preseason. Remember Nunn? Or how about Bishop? or Tate who showed potential in preseason? When it breaks down to it the question is, would he get playing time over any of the likely WR's on the current roster and do you think he's more talented than those players? But, you don't cut a proven pro-bowler that is a captain for a 1/3 aspect of a game for a rook that had a handful of plays in a half a quarter of a preseason game. Now if he could return kicks that would be his buy in. He could replace Washington at that point but they didn't really even use him on ST, except for that 1 play as a gunner.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Point taken regarding one half and 2 tds in preseason.   agree it would be tough to drop Slater.

    Disagree about recognizing talent when it slaps you in the face like that.  Catching footballs in the air with players grabbing at your arms in a stadium with 60000 people is a SPECIFIC talent that supercedes the discount for preseason, etc.  Not many receivers can do that.  Vincent Jackson comes to mind , Tony Gonzalez, troy brown,  ... Those guys go up and catch everything. 

    So not quite anointing the guy to canton but don't cut him until he gets a real shot to show what he can do with Brady.  We shall see.

     

     

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