Definitive cap space?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Definitive cap space?

    This article pegs the number at $10.2. Assuming they carry $5, and hold $3.3 for rookie signings, Pats have approx $4 available to sign free agents. I still can see Fells cut, and maybe Vince is extended?

    edelman? Sanders? Abe's? Another CB for depth? Seems hard with only $4 available.

     

    The Patriots have $10,299,937 in cap room as of Wednesday, according to NFLPA documents.

    It’s important to remember that teams always want to leave some wiggle room under the cap to allow themselves some financial flexibility. In addition, the rookie contracts have to be figured into the mix as well. But when stacked up against the rest of the league, New England — which currently has 50 contracts on the books — is in better shape than other teams: The Patriots are one of 11 teams with at least $10 million in cap space, and all 32 teams have an average of $9,645.619.19 of cap room.

    The team in best shape is Jaguars, who have $28,387,582 in cap space. (In all, there are five teams with more than $25 million in cap room: the Jags, Browns, Bengals, Eagles and Bucs.) Meanwhile, the Rams are on the other end of the spectrum with $506,053. As for the conference champs, the Ravens have $5,356,586 in cap room, while the Niners are at $4,029,822.

    From a divisional perspective, the AFC East is actually in pretty good shape: In addition to the Patriots, who have more than $10 million in cap room, the Bills have 49 contracts currently on the books, and have $16,347,532 in cap room. The Dolphins have 51 contracts and $8,263,667. And the Jets have 49 contracts and $12,566,471.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    Here's the list . . .  let the debates about "salary cap hell" begin . . .

     

    AVERAGE/TEAM   $9,619,410.88

    Arizona Cardinals 51 $8,177,786.00

    Atlanta Falcons 51 $2,432,601.00

    Baltimore Ravens 44 $5,356,586.00

    Buffalo Bills 50 $13,687,532.00

    Carolina Panthers 50 $5,742,488.00

    Chicago Bears 51 $4,156,995.00

    Cincinnati Bengals 49 $25,815,197.00

    Cleveland Browns 51 $33,815,650.00

    Dallas Cowboys 50 $4,469,505.00

    Denver Broncos 45 $8,327,523.00

    Detroit Lions 45 $6,222,911.00

    Green Bay Packers 49 $17,799,553.00

    Houston Texans 51 $3,813,260.00

    Indianapolis Colts 49 $9,407,345.00

    Jacksonville Jaguars 51 $27,292,582.00

    Kansas City Chiefs 51 $4,153,573.00

    Miami Dolphins 51 $8,263,667.00

    Minnesota Vikings 48 $4,412,590.00

    New England Patriots 50 $10,299,937.00

    New Orleans Saints 49 $1,840,979.00

    New York Giants 48 $4,076,958.00

    New York Jets 49 $12,566,471.00

    Oakland Raiders 48 $6,855,649.00

    Philadelphia Eagles 51 $25,747,026.00

    Pittsburgh Steelers 48 $1,919,760.00

    San Diego Chargers 50 $5,948,130.00

    San Francisco 49ers 50 $3,009,822.00

    Seattle Seahawks 50 $8,980,008.00

    St. Louis Rams 48 $829,053.00

    Tampa Bay Buccaneers 50 $25,259,270.00

    Tennessee Titans 50 $6,470,792.00

    Washington Redskins 50 $669,949.00

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..



    But isn't there a floor that they have to spend too?  So they will before the season starts.  can they clear bonus money off the books by paying it ahead?  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..



    I believe the way it works is you can carry over unused "room" only from one year to the next. If I read the CBA correctly, the unused room doesn't increase your cap (which is identical for every team) or decrease the team salary amount counted against the cap.  All it does is give you extra "space" to sign players outside the normal cap for the year following the year in which that room was left unused. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..

     



    But isn't there a floor that they have to spend too?  So they will before the season starts.  can they clear bonus money off the books by paying it ahead?  

     

     



    Yes, there is a floor (89% of the salary cap for each of the following four-year periods: 2013-2016 and 2017-2020).  If a team doesn't spend enough to meet the floor over one of those four-year periods, they have to pay the difference between what they did spend and the floor for those four years to the players who were on the team for the four-year period (the allocation of the money between individual players is determined by the NFLPA, I believe).  So teams don't have to actually meet the floor in any given year, but if they fall short of it after one or both of those four-year periods, they have to increase their payments to the players who were on the team during the relevant four-year period.  

     

    Really, the floor isn't too relevant for any single year. It's more a way of ensuring that teams don't regularly spend less than 89% of the salary cap.  

    Right now, teams are pretty safe as long as they spend around $110 million.  

     

    One other note: over those same four-year periods the teams together have to spend at least 95% of the total salary cap for all teams.  So if one team is spending only 90% of its cap, some other teams will need to be spending more than 95% so the whole league ends up at 95%. In aggregate across all teams, the players will get between 95% and 100% of the revenue set aside for them.  

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..

     



    But isn't there a floor that they have to spend too?  So they will before the season starts.  can they clear bonus money off the books by paying it ahead?  

     

     



    Yes, I believe the floor jumps siginificantly with the expected cap hike in 2015.

     

     



    Rusty, the floor is calculated over four-year periods.  The first period is for the seasons from 2013 though 2016. There really are two different floors:

    • The league-wide floor which will be calculated by adding up the total league-wide caps (caps for all teams combined) for each of the four years and then multiplying by 95%.
    • The per-team floor which will be calculated by adding up the per-team caps for each of the four years then multiplying by 89%.  

    Teams have to meet the per-team floor, while the league over all has to meet the league floor. If floors are not met, the players who were employed during the four-year period will essentially get "back-pay" for the difference between what was actually paid and the floor amount.  I'm not sure how that back-pay will count against the cap in the year it is paid.  That's not totally clear from the CBA, at least as far as I can see from the sections of the CBA I've read. My guess is it wil be considered a retroactive payment credited against prior years rather than a payment credited in the year it is paid (almost like deferred salary), but I'm not sure. 

    Essentially, though, I don't think the floor is going to play into team's calculations too much. As long as they are paying around 95% of the total salary cap most years it isn't going to really be an issue. 

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..

     



    But isn't there a floor that they have to spend too?  So they will before the season starts.  can they clear bonus money off the books by paying it ahead?  

     

     



    Yes, I believe the floor jumps siginificantly with the expected cap hike in 2015.

     

     

     



    Rusty, the floor is calculated over four-year periods.  The first period is for the seasons from 2013 though 2016. There really are two different floors:

     

    • The league-wide floor which will be calculated by adding up the total league-wide caps (caps for all teams combined) for each of the four years and then multiplying by 95%.
    • The per-team floor which will be calculated by adding up the per-team caps for each of the four years then multiplying by 89%.  

    Teams have to meet the per-team floor, while the league over all has to meet the league floor. If floors are not met, the players who were employed during the four-year period will essentially get "back-pay" for the difference between what was actually paid and the floor amount.  I'm not sure how that back-pay will count against the cap in the year it is paid.  That's not totally clear from the CBA, at least as far as I can see from the sections of the CBA I've read. My guess is it wil be considered a retroactive payment credited against prior years rather than a payment credited in the year it is paid (almost like deferred salary), but I'm not sure. 

    Essentially, though, I don't think the floor is going to play into team's calculations too much. As long as they are paying around 95% of the total salary cap most years it isn't going to really be an issue. 

     



    Thanks for the details.

     

    I somewhat disagree on it not being an issue. Some of these franchises are cheap or having financial problems, which was the reason for the lockout in the first place. I.E., not all NFL teams were seeing the ROI others were in the cap era.

    Jax, Buffalo, Minnesota (needing to get a new stadium), SD...teams like that, maybe even Indy and the notroious cheap Mike Brown in Cincy or the Bidwells in Arizona are the ones I'd be watching.

    These teams are either struggling to compete and spend. are cheap or have new stadium issues which hurt their ability to compete in the current market.

    Then, you factor in moves like what Miami just did where they moved some guys in and then spent a healthy price on FAs in this market right now in many spots, and you wonder if those moves to get up to a floor in one shot, will backfire in future years.

    TB is another team that spent a lot last year that had a ton of cap space and still do, which is why they budgeting possibly for Revis.

    Regardless, it's clear RKarp doesn't really understand a lot of this.

     

     



    If those teams consistently under spend then it will become a big issue.  It will be interesting to see what happens, since they have four years to meet the requirements.  The provision gives a team the flexibility to underpay in one year and also allows some teams to underpay a bit over the four-year period if other teams pay close to 100%.  Will be interesting to see if the high-paying owners are willing to subsidize the lower paying ones . . .  

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    I wonder if some teams that are tight on money now are underspending this year, figuring they can catch up once the new TV revenues start flowing in.  I don't know enough about their finances, but I could see some teams that need cash now underspending for a year or two and then making it up once those revenues start to flow in 2015.  If the cap jumps up and they spend 100% at that point, they'll easily make up for their shortfalls this year.  

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to LessPhatRex's comment:

    Hey Quenie, are the Jets still in that "cap hell" you've been yapping about for 4 years?



    It funny. The Pats have $10M in cap space and are waiting for a "glut" in the market to settle for value signings.

    The Jets have $12m in cap space and are waiting for a "glut" in the market to settle for value signings. 

    Granted, the Jets have no where near the roster of the Pats, but if the philosophy is good for the Pats, why is it fool hearty for the Jets?

    The Jets got to $22m under the cap just after free agency started. They have too many holes to try and fix it over night. I haven't been following them much in the offseason, but it appears they are building correctly. 

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    This article pegs the number at $10.2. Assuming they carry $5, and hold $3.3 for rookie signings, Pats have approx $4 available to sign free agents. I still can see Fells cut, and maybe Vince is extended?

    edelman? Sanders? Abe's? Another CB for depth? Seems hard with only $4 available.

     

    The Patriots have $10,299,937 in cap room as of Wednesday, according to NFLPA documents.

    It’s important to remember that teams always want to leave some wiggle room under the cap to allow themselves some financial flexibility. In addition, the rookie contracts have to be figured into the mix as well. But when stacked up against the rest of the league, New England — which currently has 50 contracts on the books — is in better shape than other teams: The Patriots are one of 11 teams with at least $10 million in cap space, and all 32 teams have an average of $9,645.619.19 of cap room.

    The team in best shape is Jaguars, who have $28,387,582 in cap space. (In all, there are five teams with more than $25 million in cap room: the Jags, Browns, Bengals, Eagles and Bucs.) Meanwhile, the Rams are on the other end of the spectrum with $506,053. As for the conference champs, the Ravens have $5,356,586 in cap room, while the Niners are at $4,029,822.

    From a divisional perspective, the AFC East is actually in pretty good shape: In addition to the Patriots, who have more than $10 million in cap room, the Bills have 49 contracts currently on the books, and have $16,347,532 in cap room. The Dolphins have 51 contracts and $8,263,667. And the Jets have 49 contracts and $12,566,471.

     



    Maybe I am not understanding something, but 10.3 available minus 5 for carryover = 5.3, 5.3 minus 3.3 for rookies only leaves $2 million, not $4 million, correct?

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..

     



    I believe the way it works is you can carry over unused "room" only from one year to the next. If I read the CBA correctly, the unused room doesn't increase your cap (which is identical for every team) or decrease the team salary amount counted against the cap.  All it does is give you extra "space" to sign players outside the normal cap for the year following the year in which that room was left unused. 

     



    You're right Pro. It's kind of like Basketball in a way. So, the cap is set at $123mil but since the Pats have $5mil they carried over they are allowed to spend up to $128mil for this year only. So if they only spend up to the $123mil they are essentially spending to the cap but they din't spend as much as they could and that $5mil extra they could spend this year is lost

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Do you know if the "carry over" money is for 1 year only? Use it or lose it? I understand that the money this year can be carried to next year, but can it be carried  to the year after that? 

    Look at some of these teams....Browns....Bengals.....TB.....Jags.....Eagles.....those fans have grounds to call those owners cheap for not spending to the cap to improve those teams..

     



    I believe the way it works is you can carry over unused "room" only from one year to the next. If I read the CBA correctly, the unused room doesn't increase your cap (which is identical for every team) or decrease the team salary amount counted against the cap.  All it does is give you extra "space" to sign players outside the normal cap for the year following the year in which that room was left unused. 

     

     



    You're right Pro. It's kind of like Basketball in a way. So, the cap is set at $123mil but since the Pats have $5mil they carried over they are allowed to spend up to $128mil for this year only. So if they only spend up to the $123mil they are essentially spending to the cap but they din't spend as much as they could and that $5mil extra they could spend this year is lost

     



    Thanks for the confirmation Eng. That's how I interpreted the text in the CBA, but I couldn't find any source online that confirmed my interpretation.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Definitive cap space?

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    This article pegs the number at $10.2. Assuming they carry $5, and hold $3.3 for rookie signings, Pats have approx $4 available to sign free agents. I still can see Fells cut, and maybe Vince is extended?

    edelman? Sanders? Abe's? Another CB for depth? Seems hard with only $4 available.

     

    The Patriots have $10,299,937 in cap room as of Wednesday, according to NFLPA documents.

    It’s important to remember that teams always want to leave some wiggle room under the cap to allow themselves some financial flexibility. In addition, the rookie contracts have to be figured into the mix as well. But when stacked up against the rest of the league, New England — which currently has 50 contracts on the books — is in better shape than other teams: The Patriots are one of 11 teams with at least $10 million in cap space, and all 32 teams have an average of $9,645.619.19 of cap room.

    The team in best shape is Jaguars, who have $28,387,582 in cap space. (In all, there are five teams with more than $25 million in cap room: the Jags, Browns, Bengals, Eagles and Bucs.) Meanwhile, the Rams are on the other end of the spectrum with $506,053. As for the conference champs, the Ravens have $5,356,586 in cap room, while the Niners are at $4,029,822.

    From a divisional perspective, the AFC East is actually in pretty good shape: In addition to the Patriots, who have more than $10 million in cap room, the Bills have 49 contracts currently on the books, and have $16,347,532 in cap room. The Dolphins have 51 contracts and $8,263,667. And the Jets have 49 contracts and $12,566,471.

     

     



    Maybe I am not understanding something, but 10.3 available minus 5 for carryover = 5.3, 5.3 minus 3.3 for rookies only leaves $2 million, not $4 million, correct?

     



    I sucked at math  but i was thinking the same thing:)

     

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