Demaryius Thomas

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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    Great, can he rush the passer?
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    I hope not.  It's a bit of a gamble.  If the Pats were in better shape maybe but not with so many needs and having to hit on those needs.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    One first rounder.  Belichick will not blow it on a WR.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    I would much rather a pass rusher than WR or RB in the first
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : which one? put a name to your passrusher who will solve all of NE's pass rushing problems at pick #22. Will any "pass rusher" do?
    Posted by ricky12684


    At OLB I am happy with Graham or Kindle.  At DE Odrick or if he fell to us Williams.  And my #1 choice would be JPP if he fell to us, but I dont think he will be there. 
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    He won't be drafted by the Patriots at #22 because unless the leopard has changed his spots BB will be trading out of that position. Think 27 or 28 and then think second round because the guy just can't stand first round draft choices getting paid like Veterans.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    no thank you. Thomas is just not a first round talent to me. He has great triangle numbers but so did Watson. He isn't a very good route runner, ran in a goofy offense at Georgia Tech, had trouble getting seperation with college cb's he couldn't out run, not a cut and go type of player, didn't show much agility on the field, and hands are inconsistent. Just way to many question marks and a project to spend a 1st on. I would easily put Williams, Tate, and Benn over him which atleast one would be available at 44.

    Much rather spend #22 on a player like Graham, Odrick, or Hughes to fix the pass rushing needs first.

    But if you are intent on reaching a bit on him (most reports have him going mid to late 2nd with some reports out there that teams have him pegged as a third round prospect) how about trading 22 back to say a Tampa or KC for their early second and 3rd and maybe grabbing a rusher first then maybe taking Thomas with #44/47 depending on what other WR's are still available.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    no thank you. Thomas is just not a first round talent to me. He has great triangle numbers but so did Watson. He isn't a very good route runner, ran in a goofy offense at Georgia Tech, had trouble getting seperation with college cb's he couldn't out run, not a cut and go type of player, didn't show much agility on the field, and hands are inconsistent. Just way to many question marks and a project to spend a 1st on. I would easily put Williams, Tate, and Benn over him which atleast one would be available at 44. Much rather spend #22 on a player like Graham, Odrick, or Hughes to fix the pass rushing needs first. But if you are intent on reaching a bit on him (most reports have him going mid to late 2nd with some reports out there that teams have him pegged as a third round prospect) how about trading 22 back to say a Tampa or KC for their early second and 3rd and maybe grabbing a rusher first then maybe taking Thomas with #44/47 depending on what other WR's are still available.
    Posted by PatsEng
    Now that is a viable option and it has a good chance of actually happening. BB will be trading out of the #22 slot it's only a matter of to where.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    ok, assuming NE gets Graham (inexperience at OLB, inexperienced dropping into coverage) or Kindle (inexperienced at OLB, inconsistent throughout the season, trouble anchoring the run) how long before they see the field making the their selection in round 1 worthwhile?
    Posted by ricky12684


    There are questions about every player until they do it in the NFL.  All of last years USC OLBs had questions, then did great.  You can question every pick.  WRs have one of the highest bust rates of any position.  You have to take a chance.  I see more upside in the 1st rd pass rushers than what will be left in the 2nd vs 1st rd WRs vs what we can grab in the 2nd.  The only exception I see is Dez and he is a mental patient, but I still love his play. 
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    that is way to early for him
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    Kind of expanding on what has been said, Thomas is a really tough projection because of the offense he played in at Tech.  The number of routes that he ran there can be counted on one hand (literally), and none of them required the type of precision that NFL route trees demand.  Sloppy route running is a quick ticket out of the league for a WR.  He is a terrific athlete, and certainly has elite potential, but for the Pats i'd have to imagine the leap of faith is just too great to spend a high pick on him.  Now players like Golden Tate, Damian Williams, or Arrelious Benn could def. end up wearing the flying Elvis, they played against top level competition in pro style systems.  Either way BB won't spend the 1st rounder on a WR, there are too many ? surrounding the guys who would be available there and there are more pressing needs.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : i hear ya.. but when is the last time BB used a 1st round pick on an OLB? If there is a time to gamble on star potential it is round 1. Knowing how BB looks at future situations just as much as current one's he must realize that Moss most likely will be gone after this season.. and then what?
    Posted by ricky12684


    I would say 1st is not the place to gamble on a hit or miss player but to grab, more then likely, a productive starter. Late 2nd to mid rounds is where I'd say is a better place to take a chance on a high upside player. Less risk if they don't work out (See Maroney and Watson for the downside of drafting high gambles to early and players like McKenzie and Tate as a good example of gambles that could pan out with a lot less risk)
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    I love Thomas and probably have been touting him the longest and loudest on the huge draft blog as anyone but that was when he was considered a mid 2nd round projection.  Mayock has him as a 1st.  Not sure I agree spending taking that big a risk.  There might be a few teams willing to spend a #1 on a guy that has a broken foot, can't work out, has not run the route tree but clearly has speed and separation ability but I don't think we are one of them.

    If history says anything we will try to trade down a few slots and take Odrick.  Big need position, prototypical 34 DE size, BB loves to draft DL in the first. All those things make me think Odrick is the man.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : i hear ya.. but when is the last time BB used a 1st round pick on an OLB? If there is a time to gamble on star potential it is round 1. Knowing how BB looks at future situations just as much as current one's he must realize that Moss most likely will be gone after this season.. and then what?
    Posted by ricky12684

    I'm not pigeon holding them into OLB with 22, for all I know they could pick a safety.  All I'm saying is that in the 1st round (in my opinion), a player like Thomas requires too large a leap of faith-even with his large potential.  A pick that high would be extremely risky on a player who could flame out of the league in a few years.  The only true 1st round WR is Dez Bryant, and he'll be gone/ is a knuckle head so you can just about rule that one out.  D. Thomas in the mid-late 2nd would be a quality pick, I happen to think that he'll pan out, but your asking alot of the team to make that type of projection that early in what will be a vital draft for the Pats.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    no thank you. Thomas is just not a first round talent to me. He has great triangle numbers but so did Watson. He isn't a very good route runner, ran in a goofy offense at Georgia Tech, had trouble getting seperation with college cb's he couldn't out run, not a cut and go type of player, didn't show much agility on the field, and hands are inconsistent. Just way to many question marks and a project to spend a 1st on. I would easily put Williams, Tate, and Benn over him which atleast one would be available at 44. Much rather spend #22 on a player like Graham, Odrick, or Hughes to fix the pass rushing needs first. But if you are intent on reaching a bit on him (most reports have him going mid to late 2nd with some reports out there that teams have him pegged as a third round prospect) how about trading 22 back to say a Tampa or KC for their early second and 3rd and maybe grabbing a rusher first then maybe taking Thomas with #44/47 depending on what other WR's are still available.
    Posted by PatsEng



    Why the "bleep" would you trade for an early round second? when we already have 3 early round seconds?  I understand not picking up Thomas and your concerns but you should of stopped opening your mouth then, Thomas might fall to 44, hardly doubt it though.  And your inconsistency, route running,  etc? i guarentee you have no idea what you are talking about.  I actually watched GA Tech play and dwyer and Bay bay are the only two players i can actually vouch for as in Patriots could go for and say they are pretty damn good.  

    Believe me Thomas can get seperation, can block and runs pretty decent routes.  Hes like a Moss/Hines Ward Hybrid, great addition.  Hes not projected in first round because of his broken foot. 

    He also doesnt get caught from behind like Golden Tate does I can tell you that much. and i actually like Tate.  So I actually hope we get this guy.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    I kind of disagree with some of the threads. From watching some of the youtube videos it's clear Thomas is a beast. He's huge, very fast, and is very productive. I definitely think he's a first round talent. If you compare him physically to Golden Tate and the other top tier receivers (minus Dez Bryant) and it's not even close.

    That being said his offensive system in college makes him a risk, which I would avoid in round 1. I don't think he'll be around in round 2. The guys on the nfl network think he'll be gone soon too.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : Why the "bleep" would you trade for an early round second? when we already have 3 early round seconds?  I understand not picking up Thomas and your concerns but you should of stopped opening your mouth then, Thomas might fall to 44, hardly doubt it though.  And your inconsistency, route running,  etc? i guarentee you have no idea what you are talking about.  I actually watched GA Tech play and dwyer and Bay bay are the only two players i can actually vouch for as in Patriots could go for and say they are pretty damn good.   Believe me Thomas can get seperation, can block and runs pretty decent routes.  Hes like a Moss/Hines Ward Hybrid, great addition.  Hes not projected in first round because of his broken foot.  He also doesnt get caught from behind like Golden Tate does I can tell you that much. and i actually like Tate.  So I actually hope we get this guy.
    Posted by clarkeyj1[/QUOTE]

    Wow a bit defensive?

    Ok lets start with your first point why trade down when you already have a ton of seconds. One if you feel that you can get 1 of 4 players you want in the early 2nd then grab an early 3rd you get 2 players for the price of one. This is provided they feel the player or type of player they are targetting will be available early in the second otherwise they would use the 1st and grab what they want. If you didn't notice same thing happened last year where the player they targetted (Chung), which in interviews they said they targetted all along, they felt would be around in the early 2nd and trading back not only netted then a couple extra players but also one of the 2nd picks this year. Sounds pretty logical right? And if that didn't top it off I said if he was intent on grabbing Thomas I felt he could be had in the mid to early 2nd so trading back gets you the same player and gets you an extra pick. Good enough reason?

    You are right I did not watching anything but youtube video on but from the scouting reports from experts I would guess know more about him then you that is what they are saying. He was also clocked in an earlier 40 at 4.60 hardly breakaway nfl speed if you ask me. Also from knowing GT's offense he didn't run the full tree branch of routes you see in the nfl. Matter a fact the offense ran one of the most basic wr packages in college (that's not questionable). From the videos you can see he didn't run them crisp and relied mainly on his physicality then on his wr ability, this does not help him translate into the nfl. So I might not have seen him in person but from what I have seen and what the experts say it is my opinion that he's not a 1st round talent and that I feel Tate, Williams, and Benn are more polished impact WR's. Now 2-3 years down the road Thomas's raw talent might make him a #1 but I want the polished route runner now and for the next couple years more then I want a project (that's why we drafted Tate as our project wr) but that's just my opinion, nothing to get defensive and angry over.

    This is coming from another prospect site though so read below:

     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    ok so some like Demaryius Thomas. What about a guy like Brandon LaFell as an alternative. 

    LaFell has  6'3 205 lbs size, is reportedly a great blocker and tough to take down after the catch. Probably a lot like D. Thomas only faster and possibly more of a sure bet. I liked Hakeem Nicks last year, and I think the Giants like him. 

    all I know is no more Chad Jackson draft picks at wide receiver, please.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    LaFell is like a slightly smaller (weight wise) version of Thomas but imo is a better route runner (I have seen him in person) and is better after the catch. I think Thomas has more upside but with LaFell running more in a nfl style offense and a bit more polished route runner being a yac big possession guy I would mind LaFell.
     
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    Re: Demaryius Thomas

    Patseng, my old nemesis! We meet again.

    I think the route running COULD be a negative, but it's hard to tell in the GT offense. In terms of speed, it looks like he gets great separation from CBs and I haven't seen him get caught from behind. If he times at 4.5, then I'd say he's like Joe Haden in that he plays faster than he times out. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMK59U6nCuw&feature=fvst

    Look at the Miami play at about 50 secs in. Just ridiculous. You can't tell me that isn't TERRIFIC ability.

    I like your idea of possibly trading up to get guys they like. I think BB talked about this after one of his fishing trips with Jimmie Johnson. Basically, you make a list of guys you want (a practical list considering your draft positions) and maneuver to get those guys. I really think they've been doing this for a long time, last year included. 

    How is your draft regression working out? Any interesting findings? Where is my boy Brandon Graham?


    In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : Wow a bit defensive? Ok lets start with your first point why trade down when you already have a ton of seconds. One if you feel that you can get 1 of 4 players you want in the early 2nd then grab an early 3rd you get 2 players for the price of one. This is provided they feel the player or type of player they are targetting will be available early in the second otherwise they would use the 1st and grab what they want. If you didn't notice same thing happened last year where the player they targetted (Chung), which in interviews they said they targetted all along, they felt would be around in the early 2nd and trading back not only netted then a couple extra players but also one of the 2nd picks this year. Sounds pretty logical right? And if that didn't top it off I said if he was intent on grabbing Thomas I felt he could be had in the mid to early 2nd so trading back gets you the same player and gets you an extra pick. Good enough reason? You are right I did not watching anything but youtube video on but from the scouting reports from experts I would guess know more about him then you that is what they are saying. He was also clocked in an earlier 40 at 4.60 hardly breakaway nfl speed if you ask me. Also from knowing GT's offense he didn't run the full tree branch of routes you see in the nfl. Matter a fact the offense ran one of the most basic wr packages in college (that's not questionable). From the videos you can see he didn't run them crisp and relied mainly on his physicality then on his wr ability, this does not help him translate into the nfl. So I might not have seen him in person but from what I have seen and what the experts say it is my opinion that he's not a 1st round talent and that I feel Tate, Williams, and Benn are more polished impact WR's. Now 2-3 years down the road Thomas's raw talent might make him a #1 but I want the polished route runner now and for the next couple years more then I want a project (that's why we drafted Tate as our project wr) but that's just my opinion, nothing to get defensive and angry over. This is coming from another prospect site though so read below: The Weaknesses of Demaryius Thomas The main doubts surrounding Thomas involve his speed. Does he have enough burst to succeed as a pro wide receiver, or should he just bulk up a bit and be a tight end? Reports on his 40-yard dash time were vague entering the NFL combines, ranging from 4.5 to 4.6. Draft analysts also question Thomas' route running and his lack of experience in a pro-style offense. They also wonder if his statistics weren't actually helped by playing two seasons with a run-first team. After all, opposing defenses were very rarely set up to stop the pass.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
     

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