Does BB Need To Change?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Does BB Need To Change?

    After reading article on Brady regarding "listening to the coach" - I was wondering if the "problems" that the Patriots have had since mid 2007 is due to the coach, players, or both?

    There are those who feel BB can do no wrong. Others (including former Patriot players) say that it's the players who made the "system" successful. So, is the Patriots success strictly a byproduct of BBs system? Are more recent "failures" (aka, no additional superbowls since 2004) due to BBs failure to change?
    Does BB need to change, do players need to "buy in", or both?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    It's probably a little bit of both or from a coaching standpoint maybe it's the Coordinators that have to change. I think right now we're just going through a player transition period and we need to give the young guys a little time to get used to the system. If we are pathetic at the end of this season then maybe we should start thinking about adapting our system to the players on the team. That being said we drafted a bunch of new guys on defense and maybe they will "Buy In" to the system. Attitude is contagious on a football team. Thomas getting cut may be addition by subtraction.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    I believe the comment was directed at the youth of the team.  I mean just look at the number of guys the Pats have brought on board the last two years! 

    Plus the talent drain on the front office and coaching staff has got to start showing some signs of disconnect. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    "It's no mystery the players that play for BB play their best in NE. They come from somewhere else and improve, or leave and fade away or get slightly/significantly worse."  -russgriswold

    This goes so unnoticed it's not funny.  Excellent point and one you should keep in your arsenal.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    he did change...he changed the most of the personell from the dynasty team to begin another one and did it in two years

    bb = great football mind and historian... comes here and puts system in place which is to try and put the players in the best position to win...but a system cant run itself and needs players...and he only likes particular players that put team in front of their own success...(along with other attributes) so its both

    its doesnt hurt that some of the players we have had have been pretty good too...no examples needed...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    but there have been a fair enough amount of players that have come to NE since 2001 and been for the most part, failures...so while ill agree that alot of great former pats are average to below average somewhere else...there have been a few swings and misses as well

    i think BB has let pride and brady's talent get in the way of how he used to do things...they need power running, defense that shuts em down quick and gets it back to power running and playaction

    pass, pass, pass, pass and pass somewhere didnt work for the dolphins in the 80's and if anything, BB should learn from Shula's mistake
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    I believe the comment was directed at the youth of the team.  I mean just look at the number of guys the Pats have brought on board the last two years!  Plus the talent drain on the front office and coaching staff has got to start showing some signs of disconnect. 
    Posted by garytx


    I dunno. What about guys like Adalius Thomas? Granted, he's been dealt with - but I don't consider him a youngster - but a seasoned vet.  Plus, we've only got mebbe 2 players who were part of the original SB team - so, mebbe we aren't getting buy in from veterans too...?

    I agree w/ problems and lack of consistency due to the turnover in both coaches and players. Where does that fault lie? BB? The buck has to stop somewhere...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    It's probably a little bit of both or from a coaching standpoint maybe it's the Coordinators that have to change. I think right now we're just going through a player transition period and we need to give the young guys a little time to get used to the system. If we are pathetic at the end of this season then maybe we should start thinking about adapting our system to the players on the team. That being said we drafted a bunch of new guys on defense and maybe they will "Buy In" to the system. Attitude is contagious on a football team. Thomas getting cut may be addition by subtraction.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    We have no coordinators :)
    Hopefully, there willl be folks who step up the leadership on the field....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    In Response to Does BB Need To Change? : The players who say that are a litte insecure to a degree. Bruschi is sick and tired of BB's accolades and I can totally get that. BB has always said the players are the reason he wins. The media has crowned BB king, and for VERY GOOD REASON. So have Pats fans for very good reason. However, everything in life is a two way street. Ying/yang.  Balance.  Harmony.    This example is no different.  BB is always adjusting and tweaking, but if you are asking about him changing how he coaches, the answer is unequivocally, NO. It's no mystery the players that play for BB play their best in NE. They come from somewhere else and improve, or leave and fade away or get slightly/significantly worse. How hard is it to understand that when you lose 3 borderline HOF players from your D and 2 other Pro Bowl caliber cogs within 2 season, you just might have some issues rebuilding? I'd say a 1st rated rushing TD allowed Defense and some other good signs as they progress is a good start. Issues yes?  Are they being addressed? YES.
    Posted by russgriswold


    You mean AT, Chris Baker, Joey Galloway, Dante, Kyle Brady, Kelley Washinton...........?  I love my Pats and there is no other HC I would take over BB, but don't be stupid, BBs FA record is about as good as his draft, 50/50.  He's gotten some miles out of some older players and some guys that were role players elsewhere, but many guys have come in and been downright awful.  I suppose those borderline HOF players are Junior, Rodney & ????.  The reality is, those guys who you think it was so hard to replace were years away from their probowl performances and used up 2 years before being cut.  We should have never been in that position where these guys got so old so fast.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change? : No kidding, Einstein. No one said he gets 100% yield off of who he brings in.   It ain't working. Your attempts to pretend what he has done here and what he is doing here as something less than incredible will not work. If BB bats .340 everyone else bats .200-.250. Good day.
    Posted by russgriswold

    wow, someone's panties are in a bunch...look...just because i dont kiss his as.s, doesnt mean you have to take your lips off his

    i never said the man couldnt coach...i guess my perception of reality is rooted a little more firmly in reality than yours
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rick8795. Show Rick8795's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    Some of the coaching changes since the last SB win have left voids that have never really been filled.

    In any organization there should be continuity, grooming the replacement before the position becomes available. That process has never really taken place.

    Other teams thought they would get one of the coordinators from the three time SB winners, and steal the winning formula ie. a championship, or try to sell it that way to their fans.

    Coaching in the last few years (under BB) has not been what it could have been. The play calling has been predictable, and at times unlike BB, 4th and 2 that will be debated forever.

    The coaching, to me, has been the difference.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    "It's no mystery the players that play for BB play their best in NE. They come from somewhere else and improve, or leave and fade away or get slightly/significantly worse."  - russgriswold This goes so unnoticed it's not funny.  Excellent point and one you should keep in your arsenal.
    Posted by garytx


    I'll admit that many players that come play for BB give their best - but, I don't necessarily agree that their performance was the best of their respective careers.  Corey Dillon is a good example. He averaged more yards/season with the Bengals (altho he averaged more TDs for the Pats during his career). Another example is Adalius Thomas and Joey Galloway. Came to play for BB - but what'd we get?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    After reading the Teddy Bear thread, I thought maybe this one was going to be about . . .



    something else.



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change? : Joey Galloway was hurt the year before and 37 years old and now done. Not a very good reference point. I hope you didn't go to law school. Adalius Thomas had a GREAT 2007 and then a mediocre 2008 and then quit.  I am talking about no names or undrafted FAs or mid tier talent from the NCAA level who take the payout elsewhere after overachiveving or flourishing here. Clearly, Dillon is a lone example where he dominated before coming to NE.  Even Moss is an example of becoming better than he was prior to NE, rivaling Minnesota's work, and that's Brady helping out there as well.  Same deal with Welker. Your 1 example to my 10 is not a very strong case for you, though, is it?
    Posted by russgriswold


    You should have stated that you didn't want to include all Bill's FA signings, only the ones that did well.  Sorry there, it doesn't work that way.  In 2007, BB got the most out of AT in 2009, AT quit.  Sounds reasonable.  No questioning BB is a great coach, but get your head out of his azz, please.  Try looking at this from a less biased perspective.  Everything with you is, 'other teams get the calls' or 'this guy was hurt' or 'this team got lucky'  Take a step back, sonny boy, and you'll see that there are a lot of great coaches, teams and players out there.  When a great coach gets a great QB, great things usually happen.  Walsh/Montana/Young, Shanahan/Elway, BB/Brady. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change? : Umm, do you know what a ratio is, son?  For every name you listed there above, I can name 5. Your last sentence proves how clueless you are too.  You can't replace players immediately overnight when they aren't good enough to beat out players in a system who help win 14 games a year.  Of course players don't succeeed. Have you seen the other 31 teams in this league lately? The irrational line of thinking by some fans is hilarious.
    Posted by russgriswold


    Go ahead, name your 5 for every 1.  I'll get the rest of the list. It's pretty huge.  Amazing how you are the only Pats fan who is so knowledgeable and rational.  Careful, though, if BB rips one, you are trouble.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change? : You'd be wrong. What you call "rooted firmly in reality" is what I call attempts to make the biggest possible deal of slight imperfections in order to justify why your team is somehow better in your fandom eyes. I call it knowing how incredible his resume is, experience, track record, almost immediate improvement of teams that struggle or don't do well years prior, COACHING, preparation, personnel maneuvering, etc. Greatest coach ever. End of story. This is the cap era, son.  He makes Vince Lombardi and Bill Walsh look like assistants with the conistency up against this degree of difficulty. We know BB could handle the easier non-ego pre cap era, but we don't know if past greats could handle the cap era. I am well aware of what I am witnessing here as it unfolds. Someday, you'll like Corky from Life Goes On when you measure the accomplishments of this coach. I know the history, context and facts.  You leave them out to shape an argument how you want to see it.
    Posted by russgriswold

    this argument is worthless to have with you...he doesnt have the most rings, he hasnt been around the longest, he was caught cheating, his cleveland years, and the amount of times he has been outcoached in the last 2 years alone tell me, that BB has had better years...and the greatness is behind them

    but go ahead with the name calling...it really bolsters your argument
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    "He doesn't have the most rings"...? You sure about that? Ok, then who does?  What coach has the most SB rings? He's shut down some of the most prolific offenses in history for crying out loud. '87 Niners to 3 points, '90 NIners to 10 points (!),'01 Rams in the Super Bowl, Colts many times, etc. I shouldn't even be responding to you consdiring you aren't even dealing with facts. Clueless. As usual. Name a coach right now who started in the NFL prior to 1975? Nice backpedal by the way...The argument is "worthless" because you are dead wrong and you know it.  Can't handle it.
    Posted by russgriswold

    so coaches are judged solely on their title count? and it seems like you are discounting the contributions of the COACH of the teams that faced the niners...so it seems like you are leaving out little facts like that...and how dreadfully awful the browns were under BB...and if drew bledsoe never got hurt, the pats would still be woeful because BB would, in likely hood been fired in another year or two

    he isnt the greatest coach ever and had his legacy tarnished by cheating...get over it...i am
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    Umm, yeah, how else do you want judge legendary coaches?  By friendly media sessions and media write ups? The Browns were a playoff team in 1994. He was well on his way to straightening out that mess. That's a fact Modell admitted to years later. BB waas the scapegoat for a team that was being sold out to Baltimore. BB wanted Testaverde as the QB. By the time he was vilified for benching Kosar, it was too late. The media was all over him looking for an excuse. You had a slow, old Browns team on the cusp of the cap era.  Modell wasn't patient enough and leveraged the stadium up agains the fans and then blamed it on BB. Read up, son. Bill Walsh filmed games, son.  You know why? Because it's legal!  Good god.  Every team films if they so chose. FACT
    Posted by russgriswold

    he was still the coach...i mean im sure there are a million reasons why joe schmoe from idaho didnt make it as a big time coach...but FACT is...belichick is where he is at because of Brady

    oh, and im not your son and thank god for that...its nice to wake up in the morning and not live in a cave

    and how many other teams were lambasted by the league for cheating?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    Jimmy42Jack0,

    The real reason BB is here in NE is because he has his game plan from a Superbowl championship enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame (no one else does), Kraft likes him and he has incredible street cred in the league. He also coached a guy that hadn't played a game since high-school to an 11-5 record and only missed the play-offs that year because the Colts laid down at the end of the season like they always do so they can get used to that losing feeling. Oh and too many media types have tried and failed to prove BB is anything but one of the best, if not the best at the personnel game for it to be worth any fans time try and prove otherwise.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    Yeah and he was moving them in the right direction. Ask Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, Mike Lombardi and all the others who worked for him what they think of BBm including HOFer JIM BROWN. Gee, I wonder why Baltimore was a SB team a few years later and Testaverde was in the Pro Bowl in 1996?  BB cleared out a lot of contracts and get Clevleland/Baltimore into a very good cap position. The ones on the NE tapes Goodell destroyed should have. He just didn't think it was far that NE was the team who made him look dumb and others should also be held to the same standard. Fine, his choice. He's the commissioner. But, NE had tapes of other teams filming them from unspecified locations, so this partr of the rule was clearly never followed or ever reprimanded. FACT. Why weren't the 49ers, Steelers and especially Denver "lambasted" for REALLY having an advantage in the cap era and falsifying financials in the cap era to gain definitive personell advantages over the other teams who did not cheat the cap? Care to answer that? Something all teams LEGALLY do, but need to be in the correct spot to do it, OR something one team does that shows deceit? I'll tell you why, Einstein.   Pitt, SF and Denver weren't very good when CAUGHT during an audit for cheating years after they cheated the cap outright. Was Don Shula "cheating" in 1970 when caught tampering?   Is that really cheating? Is it?
    Posted by russgriswold

    baltimore played in the super bowl 5 years later with a dominant defense coached by what was thought to be offensive mastermind...not BB nor were very many, if any of his players with that team

    and again...so if one team cheats? its ok for all to do so? please answer this question...because if its ok for teams to be lemmings, then i suggest you follow them right off that bridge and you can watch the WWE from wherever you land

    and what about shula tampering? ive never heard such a thing...i heard the phins may have tampered to get him but were quick to compensate the colts with a few draft picks

    your NFL conspiracy against the pats routine is gold...i suggest after you dive after the lemmings that cheated, you go into comedy because your arguments are really f***ing hilarious
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    russgriswold,

    I remember when Cleveland got rid of BB and thought they were nuts. He took over a team on the decline and brought them to the edge of the play-offs in a very short time period.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    russgriswold, I remember when Cleveland got rid of BB and thought they were nuts. He took over a team on the decline and brought them to the edge of the play-offs in a very short time period.
    Posted by rtuinila

    Like the Tuna did here.  That guy has rebuilt 5 franchises.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    Except Tuna Tuna pillaged the Pats and tore them down on the way out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    JimmyJack, do you really believe the Patriots were the only team utilizing video outside of the NFL accepted practices?  Come on, you sound like a Colt/Jet/Steeler fan.  Belichick is one of the greatest coaches of all time, period.  He does stink with the media.  If the Pats did not win as fast as they did he may have been ridden out of town here.  As a football mind and talent evaluator, he's among the greatest of all time.  Recent history includes a 16-0 regular season and an 11-5 record with a QB who last started a game in high school.  The 10 year run Patriots have enjoyed has been awesome.  I hope Bill stays another 10 years.  We'll miss him when he's gone.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Does BB Need To Change?

    In Response to Re: Does BB Need To Change?:
    Disagree.  BB's resume blows away any head coach in the NFL right now. Blows it away.  7 SB appearances, 5 rings, success in different eras, has shut down some of the most prolific offenses in league history, 16-0, records up the ying yang this past decade. The greatest defensive mind ever. Not close. For every bust or free agent camp competition loser, I can name 5 times as many success stories. And for your claim he hasn't replaced Harrison and Bruschi, you sure about that?  How great were Rodney Harrison and Brucschi 2-3 years into their careers? Care to answer that? 
    Posted by russgriswold

    Do you also shave his balls after washing them?
     

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