DT depth...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: DT depth...

    no way jones plays 5 techique. he is a pure 4-3 DE. he's also the most talented young player in the front 7 and thats why the defense is now being built around him. all the recent aquisitions along the defensive line are 4-3 players: armstead, kelly, bequette, francis, buchanan. the players that have been dumped are 3-4 typle players: love and deaderick. wilfork is one of the best in either scheme. and nink and collins (presumably) can play both DE or OLB, so they are your hybrids. probably hightower too. so while this defense will always show multi fronts and will be in sub packages over 50% of the time, theres no question its being built as a pure 4-3 attacking base with speed all across the line.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: DT depth...

    you're forgetting nink. he's the other starting DE. kelly probably gets the nod early with the hope that armstead overtakes him sometime during the season. fortson backs up wilfork and plays next to him in "heavy" packages. it seems like BB likes fortson, he's mentioned him a few times this off season. probably another reason he felt comfortable letting go of deaderick and love. dont forget, fortson was a very heavily recruited high school player and good athlete for his size, just didnt put it all together in college. good potential there though.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Jones is a bit light for a typical 3-4 DE, especially in a two-gap 3-4, but a number of teams do use 280-290 lb DEs in a 3-4.  Armstead strikes me as the better candidate for a 3-4 DE, but he also strikes me as a LDE (opposite Jones in a 4-3) or maybe a 4-3 DT.  I tend to see a 4-3 with Kelly and Wilfork in the middle and Armstead and Jones at LDE and RDE respectively. In that scheme, Mayo, Hightower, and maybe Collins could become the LBs, with Spikes playing a bigger role against run-focused teams.  

     




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: DT depth...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Great article by Pat Kirwan on defensive linemen (breaks them down by posiiton: 4-3 RDE, 4-3 LDE, 4-3, 3-tech, 4-3 nose, 3-4 DE, and 3-4 nose).  

    Wozzy, I thought of you when I read this . . . you'll like it. 

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/22227482/versatile-watt-powerful-ngata-wilfork-best-of-defensive-linemen 



    Cool article, even though I don't agree with all his depth charts, it's mostly on point.

    Chandler Jones can either be a 4/3 defensive end or an OLB in the 3/4, same with Mario Williams... Vince is the best 3/4 nose tackle and could be considered one of the best 4/3 tackles but he doesn't get the opportunity to play in a true 4/3, if he did he would have a lot more sacks but too often in the 2/5/4 we run he is asked to hold up against two or more blockers.

    If I had my choice of two tackles from the list it would be Wilfork and Suh, Vince would have Suh like sack numbers if he played in the same scheme and neither can be moved.  At 3/4 end Watt obviously, which is ironic because some years ago I said he might not be a fit in the 3/4 but he proved he could maintain weight and was strong enough. At the other 3/4 end position I might take Ngata or Red Bryant who is underrated. I still think Seymour can play 3/4 end at a high level and Kelly will excel on the Pats at end if they go true 3/4 or at tackle in the 4/3.

    As far as 4/3 goes I would still take Wilfork and Suh, ends I would take Mario Williams and Demarcus Ware but you would want another powerful end/tackle to bring in on early running downs so Watt would be a good replacement for Ware because he can play any scheme on every down.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: DT depth...

    In response to artielang's comment:

    no way jones plays 5 techique. he is a pure 4-3 DE. he's also the most talented young player in the front 7 and thats why the defense is now being built around him. all the recent aquisitions along the defensive line are 4-3 players: armstead, kelly, bequette, francis, buchanan. the players that have been dumped are 3-4 typle players: love and deaderick. wilfork is one of the best in either scheme. and nink and collins (presumably) can play both DE or OLB, so they are your hybrids. probably hightower too. so while this defense will always show multi fronts and will be in sub packages over 50% of the time, theres no question its being built as a pure 4-3 attacking base with speed all across the line.




    You think so? I agree when they drafted Jones last year I immediately though we were going 43 all the way. Then they drafted Hightower and I thought...ok, maybe not. When they drafted Collins this year I once again thought...well here we go...Belichick has seen enough of the 43 and and we are going back to the 34. The cutting of Deaderick had me scratching my head, but I chaulked that up as Deaderck was a problem behind the scenes (and therefore let go). Love had diabetes, so that really doesn't tell us anything (scheme wise). No ne knows what we have in Armstead, although from what I've seen of him on the internet I can tell you he moves better than any big defensive lineman we currently have on the roster. As for Kelly, he's played in both schemes.

    I think the true indicator will be what some of the ends brought in last year look like during camp and how many reps they are getting - because those guys (Francis, Bequette) look like 43 ends to me. If they're buried on the depth chart...not getting first team reps, in danger of being cut...I think we are going to the 34.

    As for Collins, I can't really see this guy being a 43 end at his size. Now maybe he can come in like Mark Anderson used to on 3rd downs and just pass rush, but this guy will get blown off the ball as a true 43 end right now.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: DT depth...

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to artielang's comment:

     

    no way jones plays 5 techique. he is a pure 4-3 DE. he's also the most talented young player in the front 7 and thats why the defense is now being built around him. all the recent aquisitions along the defensive line are 4-3 players: armstead, kelly, bequette, francis, buchanan. the players that have been dumped are 3-4 typle players: love and deaderick. wilfork is one of the best in either scheme. and nink and collins (presumably) can play both DE or OLB, so they are your hybrids. probably hightower too. so while this defense will always show multi fronts and will be in sub packages over 50% of the time, theres no question its being built as a pure 4-3 attacking base with speed all across the line.

     




    You think so? I agree when they drafted Jones last year I immediately though we were going 43 all the way. Then they drafted Hightower and I thought...ok, maybe not. When they drafted Collins this year I once again thought...well here we go...Belichick has seen enough of the 43 and and we are going back to the 34. The cutting of Deaderick had me scratching my head, but I chaulked that up as Deaderck was a problem behind the scenes (and therefore let go). Love had diabetes, so that really doesn't tell us anything (scheme wise). No ne knows what we have in Armstead, although from what I've seen of him on the internet I can tell you he moves better than any big defensive lineman we currently have on the roster. As for Kelly, he's played in both schemes.

     

    I think the true indicator will be what some of the ends brought in last year look like during camp and how many reps they are getting - because those guys (Francis, Bequette) look like 43 ends to me. If they're buried on the depth chart...not getting first team reps, in danger of being cut...I think we are going to the 34.

    As for Collins, I can't really see this guy being a 43 end at his size. Now maybe he can come in like Mark Anderson used to on 3rd downs and just pass rush, but this guy will get blown off the ball as a true 43 end right now.


    I have a feeling they will use Collins similarly to how Denver uses Miller... who had 19 sacks at 240 pounds. I'm not saying he's miller, as Miller is probably one of the best players in the entire league, but being versatile and athletic enables a player to line up all over the place, including end in a 4-3 or an olb in a 3-4, inside backer, or other and makes him much more of a weapon.  I think Hightower is one of those guys too.  

     

    3-4/4-3 I don't know I think this defense could look different from one series to the next and we won't really be able to label it.

     

    Anyways, I like the idea of giving up some size for some speed in the Pats front 7, should be fun to watch. Hopefully they have a bit more continuity carried over from last year, I think that is what has hurt the Pats the most the past 5 or so years.

     

Share