DUPED???????!!??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to rtuinila's comment:



    Like my daddy always told me, "if they don't name sources then they are probably lying or the source is lying." Rolling Stone is close to closing it's doors so I wouldn't doubt they would throw integrity to the wind to make a big splash!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Or they were like Woodward and Bernstein who had an unnamed source who didn't lie.  Of course, they did give that source a name - deep throat.  Would that be enough for your daddy?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to anonymis' comment:


    Not duped.  But it is naiive for fans to think that the organization don't know more than the organization is letting on.  That's different than saying that the organization is accountable for AH's actions; which they're not.



    Agreed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to UD6's comment:



    I read the PFT post and the article.  Robert Kraft said that he AND the organization were duped.  IMO, it was to cover his ___ for not knowing or possibly turning a blind eye to Hernandez' aberrant behavior.  I don't blame the pats for their Hernandez decision.  They've got a business to run, but imo, they are trying to dupe us with their own duped comments.  Own up. 

    RESPONSE: Here we go again! Own up to what?? Once again, you are laying blame at the feet of Bob Kraft, BB, and the Patriot Way for the Aaron Hernandez mess. 

    Here's the potential scenarios I see. 

    1) as reported it could be a problem with their security office. 

    RESPONSE: So...BB, Kraft, and the Pats are to blame for not having an adequate security office...right? 

    2) it may not be a problem with the security office but the pats have a business to run.  I would never assume that they could have suspected that Hernandez would kill anyone but they should know their players and the lives they lead.  This is a billion dollar + business and it's primary assets and revenue generators are its players.  This also is as public a company as there is.  When the team chooses to invest $40 million in a specific asset, I assume they dig a little more into the individual.  If they didn't that is on the pats, and they cannot claim to be duped. 

    RESPONSE: So the Patriots, even if they didn't know, should have known...right? 

    3) it is possible that the pats knew sordid things about Hernandez yet chose to take the chance anyway.  It's naive to think all players on any team are clean or lead clean lives.  Further, Hernandez hadn't been in any specific legal trouble whether or not he could have been.  Hernandez was a terrific football player with unique skill sets.  If the pats didn't re-sign him, someone else would have- quickly - and taken their own chances. 

    RESPONSE: So, BB and Kraft supposedly knew sordid things about Hernandez, yet chose to turn a blind eye to these things because AH was a productive player...right? 

    4) I am more than willing to believe that the pats were put in an incredibly difficult position regarding their contract decision on Hernandez.  I am even willing to accept that they may have made the right decision at the time with the extension.  Winning trumps the "patriot way".  What I am not willing to accept is Kraft's words that they were duped. 

    RESPONSE: By "winning trumps the Patriot Way", you are once more stating that the Pats turn a blind eye to the sordid things that they supposedly knew. You conclude by raging that Kraft was not "dupped" by AH, because he and BB actually knew about some of the sordid things that AH was involved with, but chose to keep AH anyway.

         

         By now, we here realize that, from time to time, you'll say things here that you think are popular with most posters, in order to try to gain some badly needed points in the credibility department. One such occasion occurred two months ago, when you started a thread entitled "Sorry to Pats Fans", in which, after you initially acknowledged that Bob Kraft and BB were blameless for the AH situation, you then proceeded to savagely attack the Patriot Way, announcing it to be dead...and blamed BB, Kraft, and the Patriot Way by implication for the Hernandez situation. And now, you're continuing on the same path, based on this Ron Borges/Rolling Stone article. Want proof?

     1.) Here is your initial post, to start that thread: (dated 6/26/13, at 9:18 p.m.)

    "I know that I occassionally play devil's advocate, and I may have some "feelings", especially after this incident, about the "patriot way".

    But as fans - you didn't deserve this.  The team, frankly, didn't deserve this.  Regardless of BB's penchant for seeking "value" in talented players with less than stellar character, he didn't deserve this. Bob Kraft didn't deserve this.  

    I am not looking to gain any different treatment of y'all from these comments.  Treat me no differently.  I just wanted you to know that from an outsider, looking in, this is some bs that you didn't deserve." 

    2.) RESPONSE: How nice, and sweet. But then the venom started to spew from you, with this post (dated 6/27/13, 9:51 a.m.):

    "...criticizing play is different than having to deal with a murderer you once supported. What this does is put to rest the "Patriot Way". Earlier I suggested the slogan was media driven, but Hernandez's own comments about the Patriot Way told me that the language if not the mentality manifested itself within the team."

    3.) You then continued in a subsequent post (dated 6/27/13, at 3:02 p.m.):

    The only way that Hernandez becomes a topic in the future - at least as I see it today - is how it relates to the "patriot way"." 

    If "The Patriot Way" had nothing to do with the AH situation, than why would A.H.'s situation "relate" to the Patriot Way?

     4.) Next, you posted the following: (dated 6/27/13, at 3:42 p.m.):

    "I think it (the Patriot Way) is a mirage - like a political slogan.  It may have once been about something when the Pats had legendary defenses and seemingly clean guys...there's no denying that the Pats started using the mantra as a way to suggest that they could overcome the known questionable characters that they drafted or brought in.

    Dog(ggggg), the implication is clear...if there were no "Patriot Way", there would have been no Aaron Hernandez situation to deal with. 

    There is no way for a team to fully control their players, but the team used it to promote themselves as something different.  Players embraced the slogan if not the ideal.  Who knows if Hernandez can actually be linked to this other double murder, but if he can, those killings occurred a week before he was given his extension and actually made a statement about "the patriot way". What statement is that, Dog(ggggg)? 

    I don't begrudge Belichick for trying to gain an advantage by acquiring, at a cheaper cost, players with known warts, but then give up the mantra, because it seems to be backfiring. 

    Dog(gggggg), the Patriot Way is backfiring?? How so? I thought that it had nothing to do with the AH situation?   

    4.) Next, on 6/27/13, at 11:26 p.m., you stated:

    "...what may have been the patriot way - related to team and doing your job and whatever else - did morph into some kind of morality thing. Whether it was Kraft related or Pioli or someone else that helped the media fuel the perspective, that's what it morphed into. No one within the pats organization disputed it either.  Further, people like Hernandez used the moniker to discuss the change to their life - which in reality was a lie. Pats fans can choose to believe that this idea(l) never became more than something only football related, but in reality some in the organization and the media made it more and there was no one out there denying the embellished idea(l).

    Dog(ggggg)...so Kraft, Pioli, or "someone else" within the Pats organization is to blame for the Patriot Way...and, since it backfired, BB, Kraft, and the Patriot Way share blame for Hernandez mess. Right, Dog(ggggg)?  

    5.) Then, on 6/28/13, at 10:50 a.m., you stated the following:  

    "...Belichick...understood the chance he was taking with Hernandez...I don't think anybody could have or would have foreseen such a situation.  Regardless, the situation has happened and it has happened with one of the guys who had known issues; One of the guys who actually used the term "patriot way" in describing to the public the changing of "his ways" - which was a lie. 

    I thought that BB wasn't to blame for the AH situation, Dog(ggggg)??

         Thereafter:

     

    6.) You then added, on 6/29/13, at 7:13 a.m.: 

    "...Here's the thing. Belichick never pushes the morality play...when he brings players into the fold - if they were wayward - they "sat up and flew straight".  And this was the Patriot Way of "rehabbing" the bad player images. Leave the dirty work to BB...players shut up and toe the line. Others started pushing that it was more than that.  fans, media, the players themselves, Kraft.  Great promotional stuff.  I'd bet shirts were even made up at some point.  I don't begrudge the idea, but as evidenced by Hernandez, its hard if not impossible to "change" everyone...The pats seemed to think their system was above that.

    So, according to you, because Kraft and BB thought that their system was better than everyone elses, that they could continue to afford to bring in bad boys like Hernandez, right, Dog(gggggg)? In other words, the arrogance of the Patriots as demonstated in the concept of "The Patriot Way" was responsible for the AH situation, right, Dog(gggggg)? And because Kraft and BB pushed the concept, and knew about some of the sordid activities that AH was involved in, but chse to turn a blind eye...they are at least partly responsible. too. Right, Dog(gggggg)? After all, according to you, the Patriot Way concept "backfired, as you so stated above.  

         Once again, by your own words, I've demonstrated that you are quite disingenuous, and couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it. This is the reason why you have no credibility on this forum.

    Babe Parilli had you pegged from the get go regarding this insincere apology thread that you started when he posted to you on your "Apology" thread, on 6/27/13, at 10:10 a.m., the following:  

    "Same old troll with an agenda. I was quite sure you had your usual ulterior motive. Your jealousy of the Pats is disgusting. You really just plain suck. The Patriot Way is alive and well troll. He (AH) got involved in dastardly things and he got booted. Chalk one up for the good guys - AGAIN.

    Shortly thereafter, Babe added the following:  

    "the troll is just playing you all. He's about as sincere as the snake was in Eden".  

         Can't wait to see you try to slither your way out of this one, Doggie-doo.




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    The Pats brass can't run their team like an FBI detail they have neither the resources or the manpower. The fact that BB was willing to cut AH (a very productive player) just proves there were concerns. As I have stated all along the Pats (and this includes Kraft and Belichick) were willing to give Hernandez a second chance and he blew it big time by betraying his employer and the other obvious things he has done to turn himself into a pariah. Hernandez had the opportunity to amend his ways instead he stuck up the black satin Scareface flag  in the living room and decided to behave like a gangsta.

    It's interesting to me that  a lot of media outlets can't wait to castigate and vilify BB and the Pats and yet somehow Urban Meyer gets a free pass (in comparison). The real truth could be that a lot of people probably turned a blind eye to Hernandez'  behavior and off-field issues because he was a good player in a reputable program (if you or I assault a guy in a bar we can expect to get charged,; does this apply if you or I play college ball in Gainesville).

    Manziel's half game suspension proves the NCAA is toothless tiger that metes out punishment only when it does not jeopardize the flow of money (ask yourself why neither T'eo or Newton were suspended for the national title game: answer MONEY). Had the NCAA caught wind of what  Hernandez was up to while at Gainesville the would not have done much (SEC Football = $$$$) and Meyer had to settle some things in-house as opposed to the NCAA investigating their program. THe NCAA's form of discipline and punishment is random and unpredictable and really only shows itself when the violations are rampant, widespread or egregious.

    Just got back from Cozumel with the GF. Sorry if that was long-winded. Can't wait for football season to start.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    The Pats brass can't run their team like an FBI detail they have neither the resources or the manpower. The fact that BB was willing to cut AH (a very productive player) just proves there were concerns. As I have stated all along the Pats (and this includes Kraft and Belichick) were willing to give Hernandez a second chance and he blew it big time by betraying his employer and the other obvious things he has done to turn himself into a pariah. Hernandez had the opportunity to amend his ways instead he stuck up the black satin Scareface flag  in the living room and decided to behave like a gangsta.

    It's interesting to me that  a lot of media outlets can't wait to castigate and vilify BB and the Pats and yet somehow Urban Meyer gets a free pass (in comparison). The real truth could be that a lot of people probably turned a blind eye to Hernandez'  behavior and off-field issues because he was a good player in a reputable program (if you or I assault a guy in a bar we can expect to get charged,; does this apply if you or I play college ball in Gainesville).

    Manziel's half game suspension proves the NCAA is toothless tiger that metes out punishment only when it does not jeopardize the flow of money (ask yourself why neither T'eo or Newton were suspended for the national title game: answer MONEY). Had the NCAA caught wind of Hernandez was up to while at Gainesville the would not have done much (SEC Football = $$$$) and Meyer had to settle some things in-house as opposed to the NCAA investigating their program. THe NCAA's form of discipline and punishment is random and unpredictable and really only shows itself when the violations are rampant, widespread or egregious.

    Just got back from Cozumel with the GF. Sorry if that was long-winded. Can't wait for football season to start.



    All good points.  And I very much dislike Ohio State, but as a Big Ten fan, I still wish Meyer wasn't in the conference.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    Russ - your post might be one of the most ill-informed posts I've read from you. 

    It is not, never has been, and likely never will be a player's agent's responsibility to inform the team of issues that his client might be experiencing.  The agent's fiduciary responsibility is to his client, not the team, not the NFL.  In fact, it would be the agent's responsibility to make sure the team is aware of as few issues as possible related to the player.  Besides, teams employ their own security departments, as you know, who's responsibility it is, to uncover and know what issues may exist with their players beyond the football field. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

     Did Jim Irsay and the Colts organization know about Marvin Harrison's thuggish activities and choose to turn a blind eye towards it?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

     Did Jim Irsay and the Colts organization know about Marvin Harrison's thuggish activities and choose to turn a blind eye towards it?



    Possibly.  Did you ever hear of an alleged mantra called the "Colt Way"? 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

        

    ESPN's Adam Schefter says while Hernandez's coaches may have had some of the pieces, it's unlikely they were aware of the extent of the player's alleged substance abuse.

    "If the New England Patriots knew all this information they would have never kept him around," he said. "They would have never given him a contract extension. They would have never stood by to try and support him." http://gma.yahoo.com/bill-belichick-threatened-cut-aaron-hernandez-arrest-report-135105363--abc-news-topstories.html

    Amen.

        

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/28/rolling-stone-story-goes-hard-on-patriots-handling-of-hernandez/

    Maybe not. 

     

     



    Like my daddy always told me, "if they don't name sources then they are probably lying or the source is lying." Rolling Stone is close to closing it's doors so I wouldn't doubt they would throw integrity to the wind to make a big splash!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Or they were like Woodward and Bernstein who had an unnamed source who didn't lie.  Of course, they did give that source a name - deep throat.  Would that be enough for your daddy?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope, not good enough. If you ever really researched the whole Watergate situation then you would know they almost didn't come forth with their knowledge due to lack of being able to name their source. Back then it was considered bad form not to name sources and most media outlets would not put out a story like the RS article without the sources being named.  

    Also, now that the source for a lot of the Pats info was provided by a person of questionable integrity (Unlike Woodward and Bernstein) It makes you question of "Duped???????!!??" even more rediculous.

    Lastly equating this with Watergate is also rediculous.

    Instead of UD6 you should call yourself UDRediculous

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     Did Jim Irsay and the Colts organization know about Marvin Harrison's thuggish activities and choose to turn a blind eye towards it?

     

     



    Possibly.  Did you ever hear of an alleged mantra called the "Colt Way"? 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe if your coach and GM started a dynasty and impressed the media and public so much, the media would have coined a mantra called the "Colt Way".

     

    LAST TIME:

    The MEDIA coined that term.

    The media.  

    There is no sign inside the bowels of Gillette Stadium that utters either word used together.

    You can either learn or be a troll and keep being ignorant.  That said, like most smart franchises, NE puts an emphasis on character, which includes how someone responds to adversity (Hernandez was set to graudate on time after coming from a troubled background his father dying as a freshman), teamwork, IQ, etc.

    Yes.

    Many franchises, who have sucked the last 15-20 years may not do that. That's their problem and I am not going to apologize for my team wanting to do the best they think they can in the name of trying to win.

    Your arrogance on this matter is legendary, but your jealousy is delicious, Underpants.

    [/QUOTE]

    Please note - I disagree with you.  I don't know who may have coined the phrase, and I don't care.  The patriots, Bob Kraft, and players used it and perpetuated it as brand.  Even Aaron Hernandez referenced it after his new contract. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

     

     

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/28/rolling-stone-story-goes-hard-on-patriots-handling-of-hernandez/

    Maybe not. 

     

     

     



    Like my daddy always told me, "if they don't name sources then they are probably lying or the source is lying." Rolling Stone is close to closing it's doors so I wouldn't doubt they would throw integrity to the wind to make a big splash!

     

     

     

     



    Or they were like Woodward and Bernstein who had an unnamed source who didn't lie.  Of course, they did give that source a name - deep throat.  Would that be enough for your daddy?

     

     



    Not going to admit my daddy was right even though the article has been found to be a pure fabrication with the sources lying through their teeth huh? And just to make you feel better, I lost my dad while I was still in highschool. He was wicked smaht. An MIT grad as a matter of fact.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    Oh, let's not talk about this. Let's talk about that poor innocent lady your hero preyed upon getting paid off, not once, but twice, for your hero's filthy and despicable deeds forced upon her. You know, the ones you call a harmless college prank.

    ____________________________________________________________

    When asked after the war why he had seized the machine gun and taken on an entire company of German infantry, Audie Murphy replied simply, "They were killing my friends."

    http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/audie-murphy-2-1.jpg

     

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to russgriswold's comment:


    That's because it's easier to reference what the media coined it as than talking about what the organization emphasizes.

    Why is this so hard for you?  To troll?

    YOu're wrong. The media created the term, not the Pats. Trust me.



    “The Patriot Way” is a Kraft family code of ethics passed on from team and family matriarch and late wife of owner Robert Kraft, Myra, that the team will win or lose with dignity.

    These guys seem to disagree with you.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: DUPED???????!!??

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Your arrogance on this matter is legendary, but your jealousy is delicious, Underpants.



    That's just uncomfortable to read.

     

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