Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Oh please, give me a break, the guy was a reach. In a couple of months, he'll be sitting next to  Bequette, another guy you guys hyped up, watching as scrubs like Tavon Wilson and Steven Gregory take snaps ahead of him. 

     

    He's a reach, he would've been there in round 5-7. BB just has too massive an ego sometimes, sometimes he sees someone he shouldn't go after and he thinks his genius is so great that he can turn a Tim Tebow into a Tom Brady. He's been right MOST of the time, but this was a waste of a pick. 



    Um, Jake Bequette is a defensive end, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to compare him to Tavon Wilson and Steve Gregory.  He has had ONE year in the system, and we already had a ton of depth at the DE position.  Can't we give the guy a little time before we declare a third round pick a "bust"?

    If you're such a draft expert and know more than BB about players' value, why aren't you in the war room of an NFL team drafting all of these studs?  Enough with the "he could have been had in rounds 5-7."  Do you have access to all 32 NFL teams war rooms?  If so, that's awesome.  If not, enough.  You have absolutely NO IDEA whether that is true.  

    It's so hilarious that people deem a kid to be a "wasted pick" or a "bust" when he hasn't even been in training camp yet.  LOL.  Some of you act like Harmon was some scrub on a no-name team.  He was the face of a Top 10 NCAA defense last year and was selected as First Team Big East twice.  He had the same measurables as all of the other safeties taken before him and after him.  Yeah, the guy sux, just like the rest of our team outside of Brady.

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to poopsteo's comment:

     

    Don't we have tavon Wilson??? And we signed  Adrian Wilson. Rather reach on interior lineman IMO. What do I know. 

     




    Based on reading some of your posts, I can tell you and your little pink helmet buddies don't know much.

     

     

     



    Rusty, stop trying to pick fights. I usually agree with what you say but I think you might get more respect around here if you weren't ALWAYS iching for a fight! Just sayin'

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to Getzo's comment:




    Well he looks like a leader at least. Lets hope he works out.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to poopsteo's comment:

     

    Don't we have tavon Wilson??? And we signed  Adrian Wilson. Rather reach on interior lineman IMO. What do I know. 

     




    Based on reading some of your posts, I can tell you and your little pink helmet buddies don't know much.

     

     

     



    Rusty, stop trying to pick fights. I usually agree with what you say but I think you might get more respect around here if you weren't ALWAYS iching for a fight! Just sayin'

     

     



    That person is a troll, dude. Trust me. Not picking fights at all. I am confronting known trolls because the mods apparently can't figure out troll tactics enough to clean up the board.

     

     

     



    I know the guy's a troll, just look at his name. Just put him on ignore and be done with it. No need to confront (which is synonymous with fight) him and keep him interested in posting here

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    I just went back and looked at all the safeties picked last year.  From a statistical and playing time point of view, Tavon Wilson (the third safety picked) is clearly the third best, at least through one season (which we all know is not enough seasons to fairly judge, but it's all we have right now).  So despite all the hysterics from TexPat and others, Wilson does seem to be a decent choice if the goal was to get a safety.  BB proved himself smarter (not surprisingly) then Mel Kiper and Mel Kiper's own little chirpy TexParrot.

    The other way to judge the Tavon Wilson pick is to look at the guys picked after him.  I looked at the next 35 or so picks to see what they did this season.  A handful--Russell Wilson, Lavonte David, and four or five others--clearly were better contributors than Wilson, guys who became regular starters or had significant playing time with decent stats.  But the vast majority of those 35 were at best similar to Wilson in contribution and most were worse.  So as far as "value" Wilson seems pretty good, at least through one season.  He maybe wasn't the best pick made in that 48-83 range, but we was certainly in the top quarter.

    Now things may change in the future.  Belichick does a good job of getting players involved and contributing to their maximum ability right from the start.  It's quite possible that Wilson will be like many other of BB's rookies who look good in their first season because of the situations they are put into but then fade as it becomes clear that their potential was pretty much capped out at what they did as rookies.  Other coaches don't do quite so good a job of getting their rookies to contribute right away, but if the rookies are talented they do get better over time and eventually reach their potential.  So we'll have to wait and see what happens over the next several seasons. But after season one, Wilson is looking like a solid pick.  Not spectacular, but certainly living up to expectations when compared with most of the thirty or so guys picked after him. 

     And if Harmon works as well as Wilson this coming year, the Harmon pick will have been a success too. 

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to poopsteo's comment:

     

    Don't we have tavon Wilson??? And we signed  Adrian Wilson. Rather reach on interior lineman IMO. What do I know. 

     




    Based on reading some of your posts, I can tell you and your little pink helmet buddies don't know much.

     

     

     



    Rusty, stop trying to pick fights. I usually agree with what you say but I think you might get more respect around here if you weren't ALWAYS iching for a fight! Just sayin'

     

     



    That person is a troll, dude. Trust me. Not picking fights at all. I am confronting known trolls because the mods apparently can't figure out troll tactics enough to clean up the board.




    the mods do figure it out and they do ban the main troublemaker- frequently

    unfortunately you keep coming back

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    A reach is when you expect to turn trash into gold.

    RESPONSE: Wrong. A reach is when a team selects a guy early, when everyone else had projected the same guy to be a late round pick, or undrafted.

    Taking an All league performer isn't taking trash, if you think Big East Football isn't on the same standard as other leagues then you drop the mineral value a little and call it silver and hope your geologist got it wrong and it was actually gold! I'm OK with the players drafted by BB because in reality a UDFA player has made this team three years in a row. It's all about the will of the player and the teaching he receives while compeating. If they both are in line then the player will achieve whatever his goals are.

    RESPONSE: Nonsense. A player's physical and mental attributes are considered and measured against others, as well as that player's production, or lack thereof, in college. Level of competition is also considered. 

    If I played a sport it would be to be great not just average. I'm sure most of us feel the same way,why settle for the word adequate, when the word great is availible?

    RESPONSE: At this level, will-power and hard work can only take a guy so far. For a player to rise to greatness, beside those things, the player must also possess a  certain level of talent to build on. Though Tom Brady was drafted late...based on his size, and his production at Michigan, he was grossly underrated. Nothing personal against Harmon, but he hasn't shown a similar level of production, or talent level. His selection was an ill-advised, egotistical move by BB...who disregarded the advice of his scouting department. Evidently, BB still believes that he can "manufacture" a great safety. 



         Please stop trying to rationalize this...or make excuses for BB. If his scouts had recommended that he select Harmon at #91, then an argument can be made that the scouts saw something in this guy...etc. But, they instead were evidently strongly opposed to this selection. Why have a scouting department, if they are going to be completely disregarded? BB has pulled this bs now, two years in a row...with Tavon Wilson last year, and Harmon this year. Even if some day Harmon pans out...he still should not have been drafted at #91.

        

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Harmon's a reach because BB took him at a point where some posters on this board believe was too high.  OK, they're entitled to their opinion and they've not been at all reluctant to express it.  And I'm not at all reluctant to express mine, HH that I am.  I really couldn't care less how the Mel Kiper's of the world evaluate this guy nor where Joe Schmucatelli's freeze-dried overnight can't fail draft evaluation blog has him going nor whether or not BB was in lock step with his scouting department.  The guy was taken at the bottom of the 3rd round for crying out loud - this is a pick over which Pats fans should open a vein?  Efriggingad. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    A reach is when you expect to turn trash into gold.

    RESPONSE: Wrong. A reach is when a team selects a guy early, when everyone else had projected the same guy to be a late round pick, or undrafted.

    Taking an All league performer isn't taking trash, if you think Big East Football isn't on the same standard as other leagues then you drop the mineral value a little and call it silver and hope your geologist got it wrong and it was actually gold! I'm OK with the players drafted by BB because in reality a UDFA player has made this team three years in a row. It's all about the will of the player and the teaching he receives while compeating. If they both are in line then the player will achieve whatever his goals are.

    RESPONSE: Nonsense. A player's physical and mental attributes are considered and measured against others, as well as that player's production, or lack thereof, in college. Level of competition is also considered. 

    If I played a sport it would be to be great not just average. I'm sure most of us feel the same way,why settle for the word adequate, when the word great is availible?

    RESPONSE: At this level, will-power and hard work can only take a guy so far. For a player to rise to greatness, beside those things, the player must also possess a  certain level of talent to build on. Though Tom Brady was drafted late...based on his size, and his production at Michigan, he was grossly underrated. Nothing personal against Harmon, but he hasn't shown a similar level of production, or talent level. His selection was an ill-advised, egotistical move by BB...who disregarded the advice of his scouting department. Evidently, BB still believes that he can "manufacture" a great safety. 

     



         Please stop trying to rationalize this...or make excuses for BB. If his scouts had recommended that he select Harmon at #91, then an argument can be made that the scouts saw something in this guy...etc. But, they instead were evidently strongly opposed to this selection. Why have a scouting department, if they are going to be completely disregarded? BB has pulled this bs now, two years in a row...with Tavon Wilson last year, and Harmon this year. Even if some day Harmon pans out...he still should not have been drafted at #91.

     

        

     



    TexParrot knows because he read it in some draft publication and can repeat "Polly wants a cracker" as long as that bizarrely crested cockatoo Mel Kiper says it first.

     

    As I said above, to date Tavon Wilson does look like the third best safety in last year's draft and has been a better contributor than all but a handful of the 35 or so guys picked after him.  So by performance to date (admittedly too short a timeframe to judge definitively) Wilson looks like a decent pick at the place he was taken.  And unless Mel Kiper is privvy to the draft boards of all 32 teams, it's impossible to say how other people actually drafting (rather than those writing ESPN articles) had rated him.

    We'll see with Harmon.  But when it comes to the Wilson pick, it seems like TexParrot is the guy with the ego as puffed up as Mel Kiper's hairdo . . . and Belichick (not surprisingly) the guy who actually knows something about football and football players.

     

     

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to jri37's comment:

    The limks are fairly long reads but I think it gives us some insight to how BB views team building. I am not saying the measurables are not important because players have to have talent and ability to play in the NFL but if you read in between the lines you get an understanding as to what BB thinks is important in a football player.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4743330/belichicks-keynote-address-leadership

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4743282/belichicks-keynote-address-passion-plus

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4743306/belichicks-keynote-address-mental-toughness



    Time to set the snarky comments aside.  Excellent stuff; thanks for posting it, jri.  Very helpful in terms of understanding how Belichick approaches player evaluation.  

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Problem is there are so many Patriots copy cats in the league, watching BB's every move, that he needs to take players where he thinks they are value-wise or he might lose them.


    Also, people mention that  if these Rutgers DB'd were valuable Schiano would have shown interest...maybe he was interested and that is why BB was worried about waiting too long to grab them.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to jri37's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to jri37's comment:

     

    The limks are fairly long reads but I think it gives us some insight to how BB views team building. I am not saying the measurables are not important because players have to have talent and ability to play in the NFL but if you read in between the lines you get an understanding as to what BB thinks is important in a football player.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4743330/belichicks-keynote-address-leadership

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4743282/belichicks-keynote-address-passion-plus

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4743306/belichicks-keynote-address-mental-toughness

     



    Time to set the snarky comments aside.  Excellent stuff; thanks for posting it, jri.  Very helpful in terms of understanding how Belichick approaches player evaluation.  

    I have a hard time undestanding how this guy gets criticized for his philosophy. It seems like a civil war on this board. You are either a TB apologist or a BB apologist. It is hard to understand why we as Pat's fans can't just be critical of specific situations instead of the broad brush criticism that gets levied around here.

    BTW how do I get in the HH club. Is there hazing? Do I have to write a check? I seem to fit the criteria.



    I'm inclined to agree.  Flame wars seem to break out at the mere mention of either Brady or Belichick in any capacity.  

    With respect to the qualificaton for claiming HH status the following criteria seem to apply:

    1)  One must make the totally outrageous and unreasonable claim that one doesn't know more about football than Bill Belichick.  

    2) One must disagree with a certain Lone Star State poster that a draft choice labeled as a reach by Mel Kiper, Joe Schumcatelli or some other flunky posting from his/her basement is in fact a reach (whatever the f**k that is);

    3)  And finally, one must have the title bestowed upon you by said Lone Star State poster.  This, above all else, is the most critical step in attaining HH status.

    Yours in dwelling in benighted ignorance, I am proudly,

    ATJ, HH in good standing

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    Even if some day Harmon pans out...he still should not have been drafted at #91.    



    Seriously?  If the guy becomes a good player you are going to complain about where he was drafted?  Last time I checked the point of the draft was to get good players.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    Even if some day Harmon pans out...he still should not have been drafted at #91. 

     

    Seriously?  If the guy becomes a good player you are going to complain about where he was drafted?  Last time I checked the point of the draft was to get good players.



    Agreed, this makes no sense but is typical of the hand wringing that goes on amongst the gloom and doom crowd.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    With respect to the qualificaton for claiming HH status the following criteria seem to apply:

    1)  One must make the totally outrageous and unreasonable claim that one doesn't know more about football than Bill Belichick.  

    2) One must disagree with a certain Lone Star State poster that a draft choice labeled as a reach by Mel Kiper, Joe Schumcatelli or some other flunky posting from his/her basement is in fact a reach (whatever the f**k that is);

    3)  And finally, one must have the title bestowed upon you by said Lone Star State poster.  This, above all else, is the most critical step in attaining HH status.

    Yours in dwelling in benighted ignorance, I am proudly,

    ATJ, HH in good standing



    LOL...good stuff!!

    In reality, just disagree with TP, call him out on his whining & crying, and you are in the club!! Wink

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    Even if some day Harmon pans out...he still should not have been drafted at #91. 

     

    Seriously?  If the guy becomes a good player you are going to complain about where he was drafted?  Last time I checked the point of the draft was to get good players.

     



     

    Agreed, this makes no sense but is typical of the hand wringing that goes on amongst the gloom and doom crowd.



    Welcome to the world that is TexasPat!! LOL

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share