Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    are you seriously this dumb?

    RESPONSE: Is Rusty seriously this dumb? ANSWER: Yes!!

    put that 152 IQ to work would you?

    RESPONSE: And you believe that Rusty has a 152 IQ because he told you so? That may have been his batting average in high school, or his weight, if he's a small individual. Other than that...after reading samples of his silly posts over the years, I have my reservations...LOL!!!

     and no, I have never inhaled pot in my life..

    RESPONSE: My guess is that Rusty has, on a regular basis...LOL!!! 




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    let me break it down for you...he did not fool every body. His team mates were leery of him, to the point that he was alienated from almost every one. AH in public hung out with know gang members in broad sight, at public places...he even rented a 2nd condo and hung out with gang members at the condo. None of that is against the law. But it should have raised major red flags and the Pats HAD to have known about it, as it seems most of Boston, Southestern Mass and Providence did.

    AH also was involved in gun situations prior to this...he was questioned in college (known fact), a police report was made in Providence on Thayer Street that a group of guys was seen putting a gun under a car on the street. It was unclear who put the gun down, but AH was in the group, and a police report was made.   The Fla shooting was after the Pats gave him the contract. The Boston double murders was unsolved, just coming to light now.

    repeat, I have no issue with the Pats drafting the guy in the 4th round. I also have no issue with the Pats giving him $40m to resign. Where I have issue is did they do due dilligence? If they did, they HAD to have turned the other cheek, simply too much there to ignore. If they did not do due dilligence, they should be criticized.

    Rusty continues to put words in my mouth that how could BB have known when AH was drafted? Rusty even goes on to throw Jim Lampley under the bus. Rusty even admirts to inhaling. As usual, Rusty misses the point...

    1) Pats drafted him, no problem

    2) Pats resigned him, no problem

    3) Did they do due dilligence? I say they did not...and if they did, these skeletons were in plain sight to see and the Pats opted to ignore the red flags...

    4) Regarding part 3...regardless if they did not do due dilligence or did...they should be open to criticism for the situation. Pleading ignorance is a cop out imo



    I understand what (you think everybody knew)...or should have known.....but it's just a bunch of words. You have yet to provide one report or shred of evidence to back up all of your claims.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    look, you and Rusty can sit there and think because the Pats claimed ignorance, or they could not forsee the future, they can walk away with out criticism...that is your right to believe this as fact and accept the Pats comment. I feel that 90% of Pats fans feel other wise...as does the entire NFL community (not only ESPN)...

    thats what makes this board great...we can disagree, and come back tomorrow with another debate...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

         Hey guys...this wasn't the Patriot's fault! In fact, it wasn't even Aaron Hernandez' fault!! It's America's fault...and society's fault!!! Just ask sports columnist Jason Whitlock: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/whitlock-aaron-hernandez-byproduct-of-society-not-aberration-tony-soprano-jay-z-gang-drug-culture-pervasive-in-society-070113

         It was only a matter of time before an "it's society's fault" article came out. While Hollywood, rappers, and the gang culture has certainly cast a negative influence on society over the past 15 years, neither rapper Jay-Z, you, or I have gone out and committed murder. AH apparently has...and the buck should stop with him.     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

         OOOOOOOhhhhhh...what might have been:

    Miami Dolphins v New England Patriots

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         Hey guys...this wasn't the Patriot's fault! In fact, it wasn't even Aaron Hernandez' fault!! It's America's fault...and society's fault!!! Just ask sports columnist Jason Whitlock: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/whitlock-aaron-hernandez-byproduct-of-society-not-aberration-tony-soprano-jay-z-gang-drug-culture-pervasive-in-society-070113

         It was only a matter of time before an "it's society's fault" article came out. While Hollywood, rappers, and the gang culture has certainly cast a negative influence on society over the past 15 years, neither rapper Jay-Z, you, or I have gone out and committed murder. AH apparently has...and the buck should stop with him.     




    Whitlock is black and a racist.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

     

     Whitlock's article doesn't make any excuses for Hernandez. He's just decrying the glorification of "gangsta" culture.  If fact it sounds essentially conservative to me . . . it's even published by Fox. 

     

    TSWFAN shows his true colours by calling Withlock "black and a racist."  Probably didn't even read the article, Don't worry, it's clear who the real racist is.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     Overall, I agree with the sentiment in the article.  The only thing I think you can legitimately criticize the Pats for is the general strategy of taking risky players in the draft in the hopes of finding a player who's worth more than his draft position suggests.  That strategy has paid a few dividends (Gronk and Hern seemed to be the "biggest" of those dividends recently), but it has also resulted in a large number of busts.  Hern looked like a big win from this approach . . . now he's a loss.  Gronk similarly looks like a huge win from this strategy, but the injury history is beginning to get troubling.  Guys like Ras-I and Butler and Tate have already raised questions about the effectiveness of such a high risk strategy . . .

     

    One thing that always makes me spit out my coffee . . . whenever someone points to Hernandez's Bible study as some sign he had reformed himself.  Please . . .  how idiotic is that?

     

     When I read in the New York Times  that, 

     

    "By his junior year, Coach Urban Meyer was saying that Mr. Hernandez had been rehabilitated with daily Bible study sessions that the coach conducted personally"

    I can't help thinking that Urban Meyer is either the most gullible person in the world or the most insincere. 



    Urban Meyer is an narcissistic fool. He probably really believed he changed AH by reading the Bible w/ him.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         Hey guys...this wasn't the Patriot's fault! In fact, it wasn't even Aaron Hernandez' fault!! It's America's fault...and society's fault!!! Just ask sports columnist Jason Whitlock: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/whitlock-aaron-hernandez-byproduct-of-society-not-aberration-tony-soprano-jay-z-gang-drug-culture-pervasive-in-society-070113

         It was only a matter of time before an "it's society's fault" article came out. While Hollywood, rappers, and the gang culture has certainly cast a negative influence on society over the past 15 years, neither rapper Jay-Z, you, or I have gone out and committed murder. AH apparently has...and the buck should stop with him.     

     




    Whitlock is black and a racist.

     




    and ur white and a rightwinger (i bet tea party?)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I posted exactly one year ago to almost the day, that I saw AH in a club in NYC, private party, public club, smoking pot in public hanging with a few other guys who were bothering numerous other partiers. 

    Many were taking pictures and videos on their phones. For the Pats to plead hey didn't know IMO is a crock. Too many other people knew. 

    When I posted one year ago, of course I was asked for a link. No links, as I was at the party, but not taking pictures. Again, many were. 

    Hey Karp, i wonder if the, "many other people" who knew Hernandez would go on to be a murderer could be charged with accessory to murder...before the fact? i mean they could tell this guy liked to shoot people by the way he was smoking plants in that night club. They should have said something, and if you were there i am ashamed of you for not warning everybody. You could have been a hero buddy.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     Whitlock's article doesn't make any excuses for Hernandez. He's just decrying the glorification of "gangsta" culture.  If fact it sounds essentially conservative to me . . . it's even published by Fox. 

     

    TSWFAN shows his true colours by calling Withlock "black and a racist."  Probably didn't even read the article, Don't worry, it's clear who the real racist is.  

     



    Well, he is a racist. He's a race baiter, at least. Jamie Dukes is into that stuff, too.  Jamele Hill with ESPN is infamous for it.

     

    ROb Parker was fired from ESPN for it. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Every person who talks about race isn't a racist.  It has been and continues to be a major issue in American society.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         Hey guys...this wasn't the Patriot's fault! In fact, it wasn't even Aaron Hernandez' fault!! It's America's fault...and society's fault!!! Just ask sports columnist Jason Whitlock: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/whitlock-aaron-hernandez-byproduct-of-society-not-aberration-tony-soprano-jay-z-gang-drug-culture-pervasive-in-society-070113

         It was only a matter of time before an "it's society's fault" article came out. While Hollywood, rappers, and the gang culture has certainly cast a negative influence on society over the past 15 years, neither rapper Jay-Z, you, or I have gone out and committed murder. AH apparently has...and the buck should stop with him.     

     




    Whitlock is black and a racist.

     

     




    and ur white and a rightwinger (i bet tea party?)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    no, I' m dark Sicilian fiscal conservative. And you talk like a person without an brain. Why don't you apply for a transplant under Obamacare!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    I don't understand how race is a factor in this case. Hernandez is white, isn't he? Or maybe mixed, but he looks white. He's hispanic of course, but that's not a race. 

    He's a white guy with a hispanic surname. And George Zimmerman is a hispanic white guy with a Jewish surname.

    Both killed a black man, apparently. Why are the race baiters riled up in one case, but not the other?

    Race is a "major issue" because certain people use it to further their agendas. They lose their earning power if it fades into non-existence, so they perpetuate it. And the media goes along because they're sheep, afraid of their own shadows. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     Whitlock's article doesn't make any excuses for Hernandez. He's just decrying the glorification of "gangsta" culture.  If fact it sounds essentially conservative to me . . . it's even published by Fox. 

     

    TSWFAN shows his true colours by calling Withlock "black and a racist."  Probably didn't even read the article, Don't worry, it's clear who the real racist is.  




    Yep, stay north of the border loser!!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't understand how race is a factor in this case. Hernandez is white, isn't he? Or maybe mixed, but he looks white. He's hispanic of course, but that's not a race. 

    He's a white guy with a hispanic surname. And George Zimmerman is a hispanic white guy with a Jewish surname.

    Both killed a black man, apparently. Why are the race baiters riled up in one case, but not the other?

    Race is a "major issue" because certain people use it to further their agendas. They lose their earning power if it fades into non-existence, so they perpetuate it. And the media goes along because they're sheep, afraid of their own shadows. 



    EXACTLY!!!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    And yet another topic worthy of discussion heads south.  And I really could give a $h1t less 'who started it.'  Most of us left that behind in elementary school.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fatsam72. Show fatsam72's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    And yet another topic worthy of discussion heads south.  And I really could give a $h1t less 'who started it.'  Most of us left that behind in elementary school.



    Agree ATJ.  too bad.

    here's an article from Yahoo Sports I thought was pretty good.  Apologies if it's been posted already.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--dorchester--death-and-a-new-england-patriot-184406099.html

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I posted exactly one year ago to almost the day, that I saw AH in a club in NYC, private party, public club, smoking pot in public hanging with a few other guys who were bothering numerous other partiers. 

    Many were taking pictures and videos on their phones. For the Pats to plead hey didn't know IMO is a crock. Too many other people knew. 

    When I posted one year ago, of course I was asked for a link. No links, as I was at the party, but not taking pictures. Again, many were. 

     

    Hey Karp, i wonder if the, "many other people" who knew Hernandez would go on to be a murderer could be charged with accessory to murder...before the fact? i mean they could tell this guy liked to shoot people by the way he was smoking plants in that night club. They should have said something, and if you were there i am ashamed of you for not warning everybody. You could have been a hero buddy.


     

    [/QUOTE]

    you see, it is postings like this that bother me. True champ is clearly a nit wit not capable of reading what I wrote, and not twisting it.

    Never did I say the Pats should have know he would be a murderer. Never did I say the Pats needed a crystal ball. Never did I say smoking pot leads to murder. What I said is;

    1) AH has a clear and public long term relationship with known gang members

    2) AH has had multiple situations where law enforcement has been brought in with guns (before the Fla situation and the current situation)

    3) AH rented a 2nd home in Mansfield and a known gang member lived there. Neighbors saw AH at that residence frequently

    4) AH has had a chronic issue with drugs. (everyone can poh pooh this issue, but it is still illegal)

    Roll it all up, and it means absolutely zero. AH is good to go...

    My point is, and has been that all of the above should have made the Pats be extra dilligent with checking AH out before the big contract. If they were not extra dilligent, they deserve criticism. If they were extra dilligent, and saw nothing, they missed too many red flags to avoid criticism. If they were extra dilligent, and saw the red flags and ignored them, they deserve criticism.

    no where do I conclude that smoking pot in a club means the guy would be a murderer.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Every person who talks about race isn't a racist.  It has been and continues to be a major issue in American society.  



         Yeah...this country is so racist that it elected an African-American president.

         Spare me.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    And yet another topic worthy of discussion heads south.  And I really could give a $h1t less 'who started it.'  Most of us left that behind in elementary school.



         Amen.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to russgriswold's comment:




    Yet we have Pats haters BASHING ESPN's Ashley Fox with that premise. Pats HATERS.

    So, "90% of Pats fans" feel that Kraft and BB had to have a crystal ball, huh?

    You are being absolutely bludgeoned on the ESPN thread and now it's "90% of Pats fans" feel "otherwise".

     



    RESPONSE: Banned again were you, Russ? Now, dusting off the "russgriswold" moniker? LOL!!!  

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

          Bill Reynolds of the Providence Journal stated the following in his lated article on the AH/Patriots situation:

    "This is the feeling that the Patriot brand has been severely damaged, no small thing for a franchise that that always has been so conscious of public relations. It’s the feeling that the Pats have long been the Kraft family’s business, to the point that this is very personal.

    In a sense, that will be the legacy of this tragedy. Never again will we look at the Patriots in quite the same way. Never again will we believe in any kind of “Patriot Way.” The Hernandez story — however it plays out — will always be part of this team’s DNA, always part of the Patriots’ story."

    RESPONSE: Yes...this will become an unfortunate chapter in Patriots' history. But, I don't see the AH situation as "severely damaging the Patriots' brand"...or that the AH situation will cause Pats' fans to "look at the Pats' in a different way...or to disbelieve the "Patriot Way"".

         On the contrary...I see this as a knee jerk reaction by Reynolds. I don't see the AH situation as having anything to do with casting dispersions on the Patriots. The Pats, along with the rest of us, never saw anything like this coming. As Mike Reiss has previously stated, "Hernandez fooled us all":  http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9427402/aaron-hernandez-fooled-everyone-including-new-england-patriots

         Here's Reynold's entire article: http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/content/20130701-bill-reynolds-sad-endings-in-boston-and-one-real-tragedy.ece

         What's your opinion on it?

        

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JMUFranco. Show JMUFranco's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    I couldn't disagree with Bill Reynolds more. The Patriots proactively protect their brand more than most franchises out there, and it's obviously incredibly important to the Krafts that it's maintained. Everything, down to the media interviews, stresses a few things: be a competitive, winning franchise year in and year out while also leaving a positive footprint on the New England area. Let's face it, no matter how judicious you are in who you bring on board to your company, there will always be unforseen mishaps. It's how you respond that truly shows the colors of the "Patriot Way."

    They took their chances on commodities like Haynesworth, Dillon, Moss, etc. to better their chances of winning football games, which is the bottom line for a football franchise. However, if/once their off the field antics began conflicting with the desired organizational culture, Kraft and Belichick had no problem sending them packing. Look at how the Cowboys handled the Josh Brent situation. Do you think for one second that would fly in New England? Look at players around the league who test positive for performance enhancers (Adderall *rolls eyes*) and who come back the week after their suspension and start. Do I need to mention Cunningham? Bolden? Players are held accountable around here to a higher degree than most other franchises, and it shows.

    A major part of the "Patriot Way" is completely reliant upon reaction to circumstances that arise. The Patriots decided early on that if Hernandez was even ARRESTED FOR ANYTHING related to the murder, he'd be gone. They'd cut one of the top young talents on the team, one they just committed $40 million to one year ago, for even being affiliated with a specific crime. What else can you ask them to do? A franchise can't stop their players from drinking and driving, abusing their girlfriends, getting into fights at bars, spending their money recklessly, etc. All that they can do is try their best to bring in high character kids, take risky players carefully and hope they buy in, place strong leadership around them, and respond appropriately if anything should arise.

    They did what they could, and any notion that the Patriot Way is somehow tarnished I think is a knee-jerk, unfounded assessment.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    fantastic analysis...nice to see some one on the board can articulate their thoughts in a non offensive manner...

    where we differ is that you ask "what else can we ask them to do?"

    All I would ask them is..."did you do proper due dilligence before resigning AH to his contract?", and "if you did, did your investigation turn up any red flags with regards to whom the player is hanging out with socially, and where he is hanging out?"

    It is my opinion that BB nor Kraft, nor anyone else affiliated with the PAts has faced the media because these questions would be asked...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Excellent Article on Pats' Role in the AH Situation

    In response to JMUFranco's comment:

     

    I couldn't disagree with Bill Reynolds more. The Patriots proactively protect their brand more than most franchises out there, and it's obviously incredibly important to the Krafts that it's maintained. Everything, down to the media interviews, stresses a few things: be a competitive, winning franchise year in and year out while also leaving a positive footprint on the New England area. Let's face it, no matter how judicious you are in who you bring on board to your company, there will always be unforseen mishaps. It's how you respond that truly shows the colors of the "Patriot Way."

    They took their chances on commodities like Haynesworth, Dillon, Moss, etc. to better their chances of winning football games, which is the bottom line for a football franchise. However, if/once their off the field antics began conflicting with the desired organizational culture, Kraft and Belichick had no problem sending them packing. Look at how the Cowboys handled the Josh Brent situation. Do you think for one second that would fly in New England? Look at players around the league who test positive for performance enhancers (Adderall *rolls eyes*) and who come back the week after their suspension and start. Do I need to mention Cunningham? Bolden? Players are held accountable around here to a higher degree than most other franchises, and it shows.

    A major part of the "Patriot Way" is completely reliant upon reaction to circumstances that arise. The Patriots decided early on that if Hernandez was even ARRESTED FOR ANYTHING related to the murder, he'd be gone. They'd cut one of the top young talents on the team, one they just committed $40 million to one year ago, for even being affiliated with a specific crime. What else can you ask them to do? A franchise can't stop their players from drinking and driving, abusing their girlfriends, getting into fights at bars, spending their money recklessly, etc. All that they can do is try their best to bring in high character kids, take risky players carefully and hope they buy in, place strong leadership around them, and respond appropriately if anything should arise.

    They did what they could, and any notion that the Patriot Way is somehow tarnished I think is a knee-jerk, unfounded assessment.

     



         Great post! Well done, and well articulated, my friend!

     

     

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