Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4080370. Show user_4080370's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    I am a Pats fan but after reading the explanation of the rule, it seems the refs made the correct call. That close up of Geno getting tackled clearly shows he wasn't out of bounds until the ball touched the ground. What is very interesting is the foward progress out of bounds rule. Like others had said here, a player while still inbounds can leap out of bounds, if the ball is first to touch the ground then that is where the spot is. If any portion of his body touched out of bounds then wherever the ball was at that point is where the spot is. Not sure if I got that totally correct. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to user_4080370's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am a Pats fan but after reading the explanation of the rule, it seems the refs made the correct call. That close up of Geno getting tackled clearly shows he wasn't out of bounds until the ball touched the ground. What is very interesting is the foward progress out of bounds rule. Like others had said here, a player while still inbounds can leap out of bounds, if the ball is first to touch the ground then that is where the spot is. If any portion of his body touched out of bounds then wherever the ball was at that point is where the spot is. Not sure if I got that totally correct. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's basically it. You see this all the time when players are trying to get a first down. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    What am I missing here? This is what the rule quoted above says:

     "Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline." 

    Then it goes on to list some exceptions, none of which came into play in the Smith play. Obviously a player can extend the ball out of bounds and bring it back in as when he touches the pylon, as long as he remains in bounds (and he's not down by contact), but if he never brings it back, it's spotted where it crossed the sideline. There's no different rule at the goal line.

    I think you guys are overcomplicating this.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What am I missing here? This is what the rule quoted above says:

     "Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline." 

    Then it goes on to list some exceptions, none of which came into play in the Smith play. Obviously a player can extend the ball out of bounds and bring it back in as when he touches the pylon, as long as he remains in bounds (and he's not down by contact), but if he never brings it back, it's spotted where it crossed the sideline. There's no different rule at the goal line.

    I think you guys are overcomplicating this.

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks Muzz...  I was going to highlight the rule section that applies and you did it for me.

    I can't stop laughing at the posts above....  lmao...   "players leaping as they go out of bounds....."   stop it you're keeeeling me...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to user_4080370's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am a Pats fan but after reading the explanation of the rule, it seems the refs made the correct call. That close up of Geno getting tackled clearly shows he wasn't out of bounds until the ball touched the ground. What is very interesting is the foward progress out of bounds rule. Like others had said here, a player while still inbounds can leap out of bounds, if the ball is first to touch the ground then that is where the spot is. If any portion of his body touched out of bounds then wherever the ball was at that point is where the spot is. Not sure if I got that totally correct. 

    [/QUOTE]


     then...  EVERY PLAYER  would run to the sidelines on every play and do a SUPERMAN dive, landing the ball 10 yards out of bounds but 5 yards upfield.... 


    Please ...  this is already one of the most comical threads of the year ...  Just figure it out...lol

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rtuinila had the best example.   You could run the entire length of the field (before the goal line) with your feet in bounds, holding the ball over the end line.  You'd still be in bounds and the play is not dead.

    [/QUOTE]


    fine .... since he didnt go out of bounds .  But when you do go OB, the ball comes back to wher it crossed the sideline plane.

    [/QUOTE]

    No it doesn't. It goes to where the ball was when the a part of the players body hits the ground out of bounds. Just like it goes to where the ball is when a ball carriers knee hits the ground.

    [/QUOTE]


    yes it does.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I remember that play.   I think a lot of us believe the refs got that wrong.  There are still too many errors made in today's NFL.  It's better than it was years ago, but still unacceptable.

    Here's what the NFL RuleBook says on the Smith play:

    ************************************************************************

    Rule 3 Section 22: Out of Bounds and Inbounds Spot

    INBOUNDS SPOT Article 3 The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines. Under certain conditions, the ball is dead in a side zone or has been placed there as the result of a penalty. See 7-6-2. Note: Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline. However, if a ball, while still within a boundary line, is declared out of bounds because of touching anything that is out of bounds, the out-of-bounds spot is on the yard line through the spot of the ball at the instant of such touching.   ***************************************************************************************************************** I highlighted the relevant section.   No exceptions applied to this play.  It should have been marked short of the first down.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have that right. I believe the ball gets spotted where it touches something that is out of bounds. That could be the ground, a player, a down marker or anything that is already out of bounds. The rule you cited here explains where the ball is placed after the play is over. Case in point, someone can run the entire length of the field with the ball held over the sideline and as long as they pull the ball back over the field of play when they cross the goal line, it is a touchdown. Also all the receivers making those highlight reel catches by leaning out of bounds with both feet still in bounds would be declared incomplete.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is wrong, since all players would leap as they approached the sideline not merely hold the ball out.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you watched actual football games you would see that thet ofet do just that, leap as they get to the sidelines while draging their tackler.

    [/QUOTE]


    apparently youve never seen a QB running to the sideline andholding the ball forward as he crosses the sideline.  This action gains almost a Yard of forward progress since the spot is where the ball crosses the sideline.  If instead he jumped into the air and landed out of bounds with the ball stretched forward , DONT YOU THINK YOU COULD LAND THE BALL 3 YARDS UPFIELD....?  GENO was just falling down and you want to give him a YARD and a half....  but imagine a wr running at full speed and DIVING out of Bounds....!!!!!   He could gain 6-7 yards with such a move...  if your slightly dimwitted interpretation were true...lol.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxrockursox. Show soxrockursox's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play


    I see the ball crosses the ball half yard short of the yellow marker when ball goes ob cause hes he's holding the ball out forward,then you come to the yellow marker isn't offical on our tv screens .So its posible the yellow line was off by alittle.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4080370. Show user_4080370's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to user_4080370's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am a Pats fan but after reading the explanation of the rule, it seems the refs made the correct call. That close up of Geno getting tackled clearly shows he wasn't out of bounds until the ball touched the ground. What is very interesting is the foward progress out of bounds rule. Like others had said here, a player while still inbounds can leap out of bounds, if the ball is first to touch the ground then that is where the spot is. If any portion of his body touched out of bounds then wherever the ball was at that point is where the spot is. Not sure if I got that totally correct. 

    [/QUOTE]


     then...  EVERY PLAYER  would run to the sidelines on every play and do a SUPERMAN dive, landing the ball 10 yards out of bounds but 5 yards upfield.... 


    Please ...  this is already one of the most comical threads of the year ...  Just figure it out...lol

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok so what makes you an expert on this. I admit I am not but don't act like some stuffed shirt.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What am I missing here? This is what the rule quoted above says:

     "Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline." 

    Then it goes on to list some exceptions, none of which came into play in the Smith play. Obviously a player can extend the ball out of bounds and bring it back in as when he touches the pylon, as long as he remains in bounds (and he's not down by contact), but if he never brings it back, it's spotted where it crossed the sideline. There's no different rule at the goal line.

    I think you guys are overcomplicating this.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that "ordinarily" sentence refers to a loose ball going out of bounds. When the ball is in possession of a player and the player goes out of bounds, the ball is spotted on the line, parallel to the yard lines, that intersects the ball at the moment the player becomes out of bounds.

    Sorry, guys, the refs called it right.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    I think that "ordinarily" sentence refers to a loose ball going out of bounds. When the ball is in possession of a player and the player goes out of bounds, the ball is spotted on the line, parallel to the yard lines, that intersects the ball at the moment the player becomes out of bounds.

    Sorry, guys, the refs called it right.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, you're wrong, there's no "I think" involved. The rule is clear, it doesn't say anything about a loose ball. This is not some controversial rule that we've all been getting wrong all these years. It's as old as the forward pass.

    The rules about the ball being in-bounds and out of bounds have NOTHING to do with the spotting of the ball. 

    It's really hard to believe you guys don't know this rule. You've been watching football how long? I know it's a long time. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to user_4080370's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to user_4080370's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am a Pats fan but after reading the explanation of the rule, it seems the refs made the correct call. That close up of Geno getting tackled clearly shows he wasn't out of bounds until the ball touched the ground. What is very interesting is the foward progress out of bounds rule. Like others had said here, a player while still inbounds can leap out of bounds, if the ball is first to touch the ground then that is where the spot is. If any portion of his body touched out of bounds then wherever the ball was at that point is where the spot is. Not sure if I got that totally correct. 

    [/QUOTE]


     then...  EVERY PLAYER  would run to the sidelines on every play and do a SUPERMAN dive, landing the ball 10 yards out of bounds but 5 yards upfield.... 


    Please ...  this is already one of the most comical threads of the year ...  Just figure it out...lol

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok so what makes you an expert on this. I admit I am not but don't act like some stuffed shirt.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry...  but I started this thread to clarify the rule of spotting the ball on a specific play...  We have 4 pages of analysis and counter analysis,  but the rules and commom sense have been clarified here.  As muzz points out the rule is older than dirt.  THe ball is spotted where it crosses the sideline .   You cannot gain forward progress by extending a ball forward out of bounds like Smith does on this play. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I think that "ordinarily" sentence refers to a loose ball going out of bounds. When the ball is in possession of a player and the player goes out of bounds, the ball is spotted on the line, parallel to the yard lines, that intersects the ball at the moment the player becomes out of bounds.

    Sorry, guys, the refs called it right.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, you're wrong, there's no "I think" involved. The rule is clear, it doesn't say anything about a loose ball. This is not some controversial rule that we've all been getting wrong all these years. It's as old as the forward pass.

    The rules about the ball being in-bounds and out of bounds have NOTHING to do with the spotting of the ball. 

    It's really hard to believe you guys don't know this rule. You've been watching football how long? I know it's a long time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The rule again:

    The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines.

     

    You don't have an inbounds spot until the player or the ball goes out of bounds.  And the player (or ball in possession of the player) isn't out of bounds until the player touches down out of bounds.  While he's extended over the sideline, he's still inbounds. 

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    ....  he's still inbounds until he downs th ball but the forward progress...(in the field of play BTW , which exists between the sidelines)  ... is marked at he point where the forward progress of the ball intersects with said sideline. 


    You don't get forward progress (common sense) for anything outside the field of play.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The rule again:

    The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines.

     

    You don't have an inbounds spot until the player or the ball goes out of bounds.  And the player (or ball in possession of the player) isn't out of bounds until the player touches down out of bounds.  While he's extended over the sideline, he's still inbounds. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, you clearly have a different take on what is a fairly clear rule, in my opinion at least. Here's my take and I'll end my contribution to this thread here (because it's getting tedious).

    The moment the runner contacts the ground OB, the play is dead and the ball is obviously dead as well. The ball is spotted at the place where it is, if it's still inbounds at that moment, or at the place it crossed the sideline if it's OB. A runner simply cannot leap like Bob Beamon across the sideline and gain five yards or so just because he hasn't yet touched the ground. That is unless he can somehow do that and keep the ball inbounds.

    That's why they have a pylon. There's not a different rule at the goal line. The ball has to be inbounds to get credit for the yardage.

    That's why you see players reach around the first down marker inbounds. If they could do that OB, they would. It would be a lot easier.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    I'll say it again.  I just love that Pats fans whine and cry about plays weeks, months and years later.  These are the same people that after the Ravens clearly hit a FG last season to beat you, you cried for the remainder of the season how it was wide even though the footage showed it was good.  No only is there nothing in the Geno clip to prove that he was out before the 1st down marker, the claim of his knee being down was blown up with the still photo.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

       here's your photo dimwit....

    referring to video defenders right foot is at or near the 11 yard line...!    Geno has clearly broken the sideline plane by obout 2 feet already...!    He's too stupid , as are you , to think that he is gaining anything by reaching the ball after he has broken the sideline plane... 

    Wow ...  its great to have you continuing to argue this....  lol... 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    He just happened to luck out that the homertown ref was just as stupid.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

       here's your photo dimwit....

    referring to video defenders right foot is at or near the 11 yard line...!    Geno has clearly broken the sideline plane by obout 2 feet already...!    He's too stupid , as are you , to think that he is gaining anything by reaching the ball after he has broken the sideline plane... 

    Wow ...  its great to have you continuing to argue this....  lol... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, really? How many times need I explain this to you, dimwit?  What you can see from this photo is that no part of Geno's body has touch the ground and it appears that the ball will be the first thing.  What you can't see is where the ball went out of outs.  Only a fool would try to claim otherwise.  Of course, the real question here is why didn't Belichick throw the flag on such a key play?  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

       here's your photo dimwit....

    referring to video defenders right foot is at or near the 11 yard line...!    Geno has clearly broken the sideline plane by obout 2 feet already...!    He's too stupid , as are you , to think that he is gaining anything by reaching the ball after he has broken the sideline plane... 

    Wow ...  its great to have you continuing to argue this....  lol... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Argue, not at all.  I'm allowing  you a venue to cry about plays that were called correct.  Just as you cried about the correct OT call.  The more you cry about it, the worse you look and the more I get to mock you.  But why didn't Bill throw the flag?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He just happened to luck out that the homertown ref was just as stupid.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is another thing that I love about Pats fans.  They are just dumb. You think that refs reffing a game in NY are from NY?  That a ref reffing a game in Foxboro is from Foxboro, that a ref reffing a game in KC is from KC?  Oh my.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    HAHAHAHA ...You're just continuing your stupidity and you don't even know it ... LMAO..!!!

     

    totally irrelevant that he hasn't touched the ground (unless he could have miraculously reached back to the field of play and downed the ball on the "green Part of the field youknow inbounds...DUMBsh1t... ??)    

    What the video and your picture also show is Genos entire upper body is out of bounds, meaning before he started his lunge the ball held in front of him was already out of bounds,  since his feet are inches from the sideline...

    This means the correct mark if they had the view angle right and the time to figure it out would have been near where genos feet were....  AT THE 12!!!!   The refs blew it by 2 full yards...!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    HAHAHAHA ...You're just continuing your stupidity and you don't even know it ... LMAO..!!!

     

    totally irrelevant that he hasn't touched the ground (unless he could have miraculously reached back to the field of play and downed the ball on the "green Part of the field youknow inbounds...DUMBsh1t... ??)    

    What the video and your picture also show is Genos entire upper body is out of bounds, meaning before he started his lunge the ball held in front of him was already out of bounds,  since his feet are inches from the sideline...

    This means the correct mark if they had the view angle right and the time to figure it out would have been near where genos feet were....  AT THE 12!!!!   The refs blew it by 2 full yards...!

    [/QUOTE]

    By two yards?  And Bill didn't throw the flag?  What is he even doing over there?  That is, unless he thought it was a good call.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    I see...  back to that challenge argument since you have been bludgeoned to a pulp on the other one...  B'BYE...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    HAHAHAHA ...You're just continuing your stupidity and you don't even know it ... LMAO..!!!

     

    totally irrelevant that he hasn't touched the ground (unless he could have miraculously reached back to the field of play and downed the ball on the "green Part of the field youknow inbounds...DUMBsh1t... ??)    

    What the video and your picture also show is Genos entire upper body is out of bounds, meaning before he started his lunge the ball held in front of him was already out of bounds,  since his feet are inches from the sideline...

    This means the correct mark if they had the view angle right and the time to figure it out would have been near where genos feet were....  AT THE 12!!!!   The refs blew it by 2 full yards...!

    [/QUOTE]

    You said before that Geno's foot was at the 11.  Now it's the 12?  The bigger question here is why do you think it matter where his in bounds foot is?

     

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