Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Shocked me to hear that of the 20 HOF qbs polled by NBC before the game on sunday, all but 2 either picked peyton or abstained as the qb they would most want running their team. perhaps its envy or just pure stupidity. anyway, here are some facts from eei that back up what Brady would do if he switched places with peyton. and some other facts. Brady is great everywhere, in every situation and weather condition. Peyton simply has not been. specifically playing in indy, brady is:
    • They scored 38 points at Indy in the 2003 regular season (a 38-34 win)
    • They scored 34 points at Indy in the 2006 postseason (a 38-34 loss)
    • They scored 34 points at Indy Sunday night (a 35-34 loss).
    the rest of the article:
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sodiumpentothal. Show sodiumpentothal's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]Shocked me to hear that of the 20 HOF qbs polled by NBC before the game on sunday, all but 2 either picked peyton or abstained as the qb they would most want running their team. perhaps its envy or just pure stupidity. anyway, here are some facts from eei that back up what Brady would do if he switched places with peyton. and some other facts. Brady is great everywhere, in every situation and weather condition. Peyton simply has not been. specifically playing in indy, brady is: They scored 38 points at Indy in the 2003 regular season (a 38-34 win) They scored 34 points at Indy in the 2006 postseason (a 38-34 loss) They scored 34 points at Indy Sunday night (a 35-34 loss). the rest of the article: http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/patriots/kerry-byrne/2009/11/18/separating-facts-myths-when-it-comes-patriots?page=0,0
    Posted by choircontrarian[/QUOTE]
    It's not the location or facility, it's more about the style of play.  I'll grant you this, Brady, Moss, Welker together for the same amount of time that Peyton and his crew, even in their current location, Brady's numbers would be better...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Brady is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy better than Manning
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DFree93HOF. Show DFree93HOF's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]Brady is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy better than Manning
    Posted by crono420[/QUOTE]

    This is like asking what's better, "Sex with the hottest chick in the bar or sex with the other hottest chick in the bar?"  Here would be a better Poll.  "If the Colts didn't have Manning, what other QB currently playing would you rather have?"  Most Colts fans would secretly pick Brady and I'm sure if the question was the other way around, "Who would the Pats take if they couldn't have Brady?"  Most Pats fans would take Peyton.  The only other QB to get a vote would be Brees.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sodiumpentothal. Show sodiumpentothal's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : This is like asking what's better, "Sex with the hottest chick in the bar or sex with the other hottest chick in the bar?"  Here would be a better Poll.  "If the Colts didn't have Manning, what other QB currently playing would you rather have?"  Most Colts fans would secretly pick Brady and I'm sure if the question was the other way around, "Who would the Pats take if they couldn't have Brady?"  Most Pats fans would take Peyton.  The only other QB to get a vote would be Brees.
    Posted by DFree93HOF[/QUOTE]

    Best answer of the DAY.  PAT fan to Colt fan.  Like the part about Brees too...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    The Colts don't have a dome anymore.  Haven't had one for a couple of years...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    I think if Brady had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne for his whole career his numbers would be better.  Who knows?

    I would have taken Palmer pre-injuries because I didn't think Manning was mentally tough, but now it would be Manning for sure.  He's a much more proven commodity when it counts most than Brees is.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DFree93HOF. Show DFree93HOF's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : Here's another question for you: If Peyton had Bellichick, Pats opportunistic D and Venitari would he have 3-or more SB titles? A: Yes. Peyton can win by himself-Brady cannot, as great as he is. Brady needs a system to be great, Peyton does not. Peyton could play in any system in any era-Brady probably could not. Brady is HOFer and has three rings so why you need him to be better than Peyton is beyond me!
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    I don't know if I agree with the argument that Brady can't win by himself.  Dude has an above average arm, is very accurate and throws about as good a deep ball as anyone.  The thing that separates the two, and I'm not questioning Brady's intelligence, is I think that Peyton can break the game down quicker.  There haven't been too many, some but not many, games where Peyton can't find the weekness in a defence by the second half.  I'd still take Brady if the Colts couldn't have Peyton.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    It's hard to compare because Manning(in his 12 season) has four more seasons than Brady(in his eighth season), but here are some numbers that might surprise you- a look at the first seven years of Brady and Manning's career. Averages per season.
    ATT    YDS     TD      Int      Rat
    554    4203    30.8    17.1    92.8
    519    3766    28.1    12.2    92.6
    At this point in thier careers Manning and Brady had led the league in TD's twice,  yards twice and rating once.  Manning's seventh season he trew a record 49 TD's.  Brady's seventh he threw a record 50 TD's.  Manning has a slight edge in most categories except INT's while throwing about a games worth of ATT more per year.  These numbers are actually very close.  So why does Brady have more SB and Manning better numbers?
    Brady has been on a team with a better defense, but not as good recievers most of the time.
    Manning has been on a team with better recievers but not as good defense most of the time.
    When Brady got better recievers he put up nearly identical numbers to Mannings best season.
    When Mannning team became more balanced and got a better defense he won a superbowl.
    Ofcourse eveyone has thier opinion on who is best, but these two are virtually identical and are clearly the best two QB's of the last ten years.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southernpat. Show southernpat's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : Here's another question for you: If Peyton had Bellichick, Pats opportunistic D and Venitari would he have 3-or more SB titles? A: Yes. Peyton can win by himself-Brady cannot, as great as he is. Brady needs a system to be great, Peyton does not. Peyton could play in any system in any era-Brady probably could not. Brady is HOFer and has three rings so why you need him to be better than Peyton is beyond me!
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    Peyton has been playing in a great system his entire career.  He's always been surrounded by great talent, good backs, good receivers and a stout defense.  Oh, and he's had a coach, Tony Dungy.  How long have you been watching football?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : This is like asking what's better, "Sex with the hottest chick in the bar or sex with the other hottest chick in the bar?"  Here would be a better Poll.  "If the Colts didn't have Manning, what other QB currently playing would you rather have?"  Most Colts fans would secretly pick Brady and I'm sure if the question was the other way around, "Who would the Pats take if they couldn't have Brady?"  Most Pats fans would take Peyton.  The only other QB to get a vote would be Brees.
    Posted by DFree93HOF[/QUOTE]

    I live near a city where the local 11 have pinned the entire future of the franchise on a guy who, until four months ago, was their single most hated opponent in the league, and I am here to tell you that what this here Colts fan is trying to tell you is absolutely true.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Shenanigan,
    I hadn't thought to look at both QBs' first seven seasons alone, but one thing I did is take a look at what their QB ratings, etc. look like if you exclude their career years.  Manning currently has about a 2 point higher career QB rating, but if you exclude their career years, it jumps to about a 4.5 point lead.  (I did this before this season, so I don't remember the exact numbers.)  Another thing that's true, though, is that Brady has had a QB rating greater than 90 in only three of his nine seasons.  Manning has had a QB rating UNDER 90 in only three of his eleven seasons.  So, summarizing the QB ratings over 90:

    Manning: 8 for 11
    Brady: 3 for 9

    Just trying to make the point that Manning has been more consistently great, whereas most years Brady's numbers have been less consistenly impressive.  The media looked at Brady's career year and decided that he's passed Manning as the premier QB.  This year they're starting to see that Manning is still the league's best QB. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]Shenanigan, I hadn't thought to look at both QBs' first seven seasons alone, but one thing I did is take a look at what their QB ratings, etc. look like if you exclude their career years.  Manning currently has about a 2 point higher career QB rating, but if you exclude their career years, it jumps to about a 4.5 point lead.  (I did this before this season, so I don't remember the exact numbers.)  Another thing that's true, though, is that Brady has had a QB rating greater than 90 in only three of his nine seasons.  Manning has had a QB rating UNDER 90 in only three of his eleven seasons.  So, summarizing the QB ratings over 90: Manning: 8 for 11 Brady: 3 for 9 Just trying to make the point that Manning has been more consistently great, whereas most years Brady's numbers have been less consistenly impressive.  The media looked at Brady's career year and decided that he's passed Manning as the premier QB.  This year they're starting to see that Manning is still the league's best QB. 
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]
    I can't think of a reason why you would exclude thier career years other than to manipulate the statistics.  While QB ratings are a good representation of a QB's success they are better taken in context next to the raw numbers.  Something like 15 of the top 20 QB ratings of all time are held by current NFL QB's.  This would lead you to believe that there are 15 hall of fame QB's in the league today.  I would agree Manning has been more consistent for a longer period of time. I also would not be surprised to see Brady's numbers surpass Mannings for the next few seasons based on his current recieving core, or for many to get another SB based on his teams defense.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wwsf4ever. Show wwsf4ever's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]The Colts don't have a dome anymore.  Haven't had one for a couple of years...
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Oh look someone wants to be technical... they have an ENCLOSED (Retractable roof) stadium!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : Here's another question for you: If Peyton had Bellichick, Pats opportunistic D and Venitari would he have 3-or more SB titles? A: Yes. Peyton can win by himself-Brady cannot, as great as he is. Brady needs a system to be great, Peyton does not. Peyton could play in any system in any era-Brady probably could not. Brady is HOFer and has three rings so why you need him to be better than Peyton is beyond me!
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]brady is clearly BETTER. just pointg out how he could b even BETTER!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wwsf4ever. Show wwsf4ever's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : Here's another question for you: If Peyton had Bellichick, Pats opportunistic D and Venitari would he have 3-or more SB titles? A: Yes. Peyton can win by himself-Brady cannot, as great as he is. Brady needs a system to be great, Peyton does not. Peyton could play in any system in any era-Brady probably could not. Brady is HOFer and has three rings so why you need him to be better than Peyton is beyond me!
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
    But Peyton canot play in the SNOW (well) that was one of his downfalls..... He has definitely gotten better..... but I for one cannot wait until I see a season where that guy is no longer in the league. I truly dislike him- and his pouting act whenever things do not go exactly his way.  From the day he HUNG out his OL when "HE" lost the game.... I have had ZERO respect for him and his ref. assisted numbers.

    BTW; the "FACT" that he hung out his OL that day proves that PEYTON cannot win alone!  Just to set the story straight.... if he ever had CRAP for WR's... he has had harrison and wayne (gboth quality) his entire career- not to mention clark..... IF he had ZERO quality WR's where would he be?.... HMMM....
    IF he didn;t get cals like the one with 3:00 minutes remaining last week.... the PI.... where would he be?

    I agree he is a good QB... and in HIS SYSTEM he does well... with the temp controlled and no inclement weather..... but he NEEDS his conditions to be the SPUD that he is.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : I can't think of a reason why you would exclude thier career years other than to manipulate the statistics.  While QB ratings are a good representation of a QB's success they are better taken in context next to the raw numbers.  Something like 15 of the top 20 QB ratings of all time are held by current NFL QB's.  This would lead you to believe that there are 15 hall of fame QB's in the league today.  I would agree Manning has been more consistent for a longer period of time. I also would not be surprised to see Brady's numbers surpass Mannings for the next few seasons based on his current recieving core, or for many to get another SB based on his teams defense.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]thats the point of the thread. had brady been playg in a dome at home, his qb rating likely would b 10 points higher. even in 07, towards the end due to the inevitable bad weather at foxboro, his stats sufffered. also had to alter his routes, game and what not. less attempts and what not. would have thrown 55-60 tds if he played in a cushy dome!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]The Colts don't have a dome anymore.  Haven't had one for a couple of years...
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]liar liar pants on fire! u didnt hear the announcers point out again and again that it was the first time at their oil company-named DOME that it was CLOSED all year. can u conveniently close gillette? come on. they have the option of opening or closing it, making hot or cool, dependg on what is best for manning;s STATS at the time!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ColtFan69. Show ColtFan69's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    But Peyton would never do a goat!


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

       Manning plays more then half his games in a dome with league rules specificly writen which favored his style of play.

     Brady plays 95% of his games outside and has had to change his style of play from a ball control short passing game to the wide open passing attack.

      So I have to say Brady is the better QB because he wins games in all conditions, with any reciever and he can adjust his style of play as the situation dictates.

     Brady is also a better team leader because he has never thrown another player under the bus when things don't do well.
      Manning as we have all seen many times is a back stabber.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : liar liar pants on fire! u didnt hear the announcers point out again and again that it was the first time at their oil company-named DOME that it was CLOSED all year. can u conveniently close gillette? come on. they have the option of opening or closing it, making hot or cool, dependg on what is best for manning;s STATS at the time!
    Posted by choircontrarian[/QUOTE]

    Jules is playing semantics. Technically, the retractable roof does not constitute a "dome." He understands the intent of the thread -- he's just being from Indiana.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jedinate. Show jedinate's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Forget about indoor/outdoor;I would make the argument that if Brady had played the 1st half of his career with a future HOF WR and RB, in the prime of their careers, his numbers would be as good or better than Manning's. My favorite number is 3 (rings) though, the rest is gravy.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    OK Jules, I checked the numbers here they are.
    Manning          Brady
    95.2               92.6      QB rating Brady's seven vs Mannings eleven seasons
    92.5               88.4      QB rating not including thier best years(no idea why
                                     anyone would calculate this number)

    QB rating over 90, 3 of 9?  Brady has played seven seasons.  Nobody would count 2000 when he was a backup with 3 ATT on the year, nor would they count 2008 when he was injured a few minutes into the first game. 
         Manning does infact have a QB rating over 90- 8 of 11 seasons.  Although, In his first 7 seasons Manning was over 90 4 times, Brady was over 90 3 times.  Ofcourse 90 is an arbitrary number so I don't know why you picked it.

    Number of times Brady or Manning has had a QB rating less than 85
    Manning 2 of 11
    Brady    0 of 7
    Manipulating statistics is fun but I think the averages basically tell the story here.  A 2 or 3 point difference is not very significant.  Plus as I said QB ratings do not tell the whole story. example-Tony Romo has the third highest QB rating in the history of the NFL.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    I wasn't the only one skewing stats: why would you only compare their first seven seasons?  Is it possible because that takes you right to Brady's career year, when his caeer stats would be the most skewed?  If you're going to be arbitrary, try seeing how they stack up after six?  Not close, huh?


    Anyway, as I thought I explained, I excluded their career years (in which Manning had a better QB rating than Brady), to make the point that Brady has only had one elite year, whereas Manning has had many.  However, (being willing to admit when I'm wrong) I was surprised that the numbers weren't more lopsided.  The differential in QB ratings only increases from 2 points or so to a little over 4.  Plus, Brady has a rating of over 100 this year, which indicates he's in the elite range again. 

    But one final parting shot.  Manning has three MVPs, and probably three other years you can argue that he was the best QB in the league.  Brady has 2007.  That's it.  No other year can you make any kind of argument that he was the best in the league.  Now, you're only as good as your most recent year, so I understand that many in the media gave him credit for being the best in the league throughout his injury year.  But this year, he's a notch below Manning, Brees, Favre, and Rodgers, and that's why the HOF QB poll is trending towards Manning...

     

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