Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
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    In response to RallyC's comment:
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    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
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    In response to RallyC's comment:
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    My God. #2 seed with a bye aint bad bytches! Damn  Dry your eyes and pull for the Team. Whiny azz freaks.  

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    that #2 seed isnt a guarentee the way the inconsistent O and horrible D has been playing

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    waking up tomorrow isnt either joe. But we dont sit around and labor over it. Some here miss the joy for constantly looking for a reason to worry like a little bytche. They know who they are. GO PATS!

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    good point! hey man, i have  complete faith in this team. if TB and the O can get hot and BB can get a scheme for this D to be successful and he get hot heading into january i have absolutely no doubtss in the pats. i just need to see improvement over time.!!!

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    THERE YA GO! Claim it man. Life is too short to lament over what we cant control. Hope for the best because for them ANYTHINGS POSSIBLE!!!!!!! As one of our other boston heros once proclaimed. Outsiders just dont truly understand. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-redsox-rule. Show the-redsox-rule's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
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    To avoid more distraction from TFB12's Incredelman thread, he has asked I move this portion of the conversation to a new thread, so I have obliged.

    I have picked it up with the last 2 exchanges, where he still does not admit the 6 million to two players who have put up far more production, with added bonues with what Edelman bring, is the superior to approach:iiijjjjjj

     

    TFB12:

    Once again, I have always like Edelman, I say it all the time on here, and have for many years here even when many were pushing him out the door a few years back when he was on the bubble.

    You pushed for Amendola to join the Pats over re-signing Welker and then you continued to tell me how Amendola was so much better and how he would come here and do all these wonderful things.  You provided all these false facts about Amendola compared to Welker, I provided true facts based on real numbers debunking your false claims.  This where we really went at it. Looks like my thoughts on Amendola were correct.  He hasn't done much.  Doesn't mean I don't like the guy or that he isn't capeable of maybe doing good things in the future.  He hasn't done them this year and not having Welker has hurt the team, as I redicted.  Thank goodness Edelman has done very well.  Still not Welker numbers from prior seasons but a solid effort.

    I don't agree with every decision BB makes.  I believe he is very capable of fielding much better defenses then he has over the last 5 years.  I also think letting Moss go hurt the Pats.  They went without a deep threat for a few years, which I feel hurt this team.  They still don't have a solid, dependable deep threat yet.  Still hurting the team.  I like BB, greatest coach ever in my eyes, reason I started following the Pats but he isn't perfect.  He makes mistakes.  He has done some things that cost the team at least 1 SB, possibly more.

    We can discuss this forever, I gave it a rest about a month ago.  You keep bringing it up, we will never agree.  You want to continue it, make a thread for it and we can do it there or we can just spare everyone all the headshaking and grief and leave it this.  Go a head, get the last word in but don't expect a response from me unless like I said, you start a different thread for it.

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    DeadAhead:

    He hasn't done much? He's gotten better every week and is trending up. Just how many passes do you want Brady to throw around the field here?

    I made no false claims whatsoever:

    This is what was said:

    1. Amendola is younger, has never played with a good QB, is cheaper than what Welker wanted BB to go with here (8 mil+ per) and has a lower drop rate. 

    The only question was durability, which I believed to be overrated due to when his injuries occurred. I also feel Gronk's injuries are purely bad luck. It's not a week to week durability problem like we've seen with some other players in this league.

    2. Edelman could handle the Welker role. He may not be quite Welker level, but he could produce and represent in similar fashion.

    So, you get TWO younger players for the price of ONE older, fading player.

    3. Edelman saves a roster spot so BB can only need to carry 2 QBs. He's also the all tim (ALL TIME) punt return leader in terms of yard average.  These two elements alone make Edelman over Welker 

    4. Each Amendola and Edelman can line up at the X and Z, which widens the field for us, which has been a major problem for us in general in recent years with Brady's binky addiction over the middle of the field (Gronk and Welker).  This is a MAJOR aspect as to why the approach was the right move.  Brady has not worked the perimeter in years. He's either refused to or pretended he needed two HOF flankers, or a binky like Branch, in order to do so.  

    These are all massive pluses as the case over ONE Welker.

    6 million invested. No brainer. Combine all of these elements and facts and look at Welker's current production and the Edelman/Amendolsa production:

    Welker 73 Rec, 778 Yards, 10 TDs  (13 games)

    Edelman 89, 914 Yards, 6 TDs

    Amendola 51, 579 Yards, 2 TDS (10 games)

    140 receptions, 1493 yards and 8 TDS is superior to what Welker has for the money.

    So, at 6 million per, you lose and lose cold. So just admit it and we can move on.

    Also, lower drop rate and CLUTCH.

     

    As for Moss, that trade saved our 2010 season. It brought back Branch and made the offense far less predictable. No way Brady wins the MVP and we go 14-2 without that move.

    See, this is how I know you started following our team in 2007 when Moss arrived. No one in their right mind would watch Weeks 1-4 with Moss demanding balls from Brady to get a new contract before the lockout and make that absurd statement, thinkning Moss should have been above the team. BB saw it, and dealt him. Thanks BB. BB should have won Exec of the year w/Reese and Caserio in a a RUN AWAY that year along with COach of the Year.

    You were warned and you;ve been warned. We will win a SB again when  we run the ball and get Brady to legit playaction status.  We would have had a worse seed in 2010 with Moss. That finesse offense has as much to do with a perceived "bad" D as anything else.   

    That's another concept you and the other BBWs don't get.  It showed up last week. Was the D that took out the Run, contained Wallace and Clay all day, allowing 17 points in 85 degrees against a desperate opponent really that bad, or was the second half offense the culprit?

    Hmmmm. I know the answer.

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    i thought going into this year that this would be a season where we start to see welker break down. hes getting old and has taken more hits than any reveiver in the league the past six years. i will take edelman over welker at this point. amendola is too fragile but hes held up lately. it was okay to let welker walk.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My God. #2 seed with a bye aint bad bytches! Damn  Dry your eyes and pull for the Team. Whiny azz freaks.  

    [/QUOTE]


    that #2 seed isnt a guarentee the way the inconsistent O and horrible D has been playing

    [/QUOTE]


    waking up tomorrow isnt either joe. But we dont sit around and labor over it. Some here miss the joy for constantly looking for a reason to worry like a little bytche. They know who they are. GO PATS!

    [/QUOTE]


    good point! hey man, i have  complete faith in this team. if TB and the O can get hot and BB can get a scheme for this D to be successful and he get hot heading into january i have absolutely no doubtss in the pats. i just need to see improvement over time.!!!

    [/QUOTE]


    It's a discussion board Joe, apparently RallyC doesn't understand that.  He makes silly claims and if they don't work out he leaves for a period of time, hoping people forget, then he comes back on here and uses words like bytche.  The guy is 50+ years old who acts like a grade school child.  He said Tebow would make the team and TFB would be thowing him the ball at TE, hahah!  He said he knows this because he played in the CFL.  Guy probably never played a day in his life.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
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    Been saying the bad throw all along? You have never ONCE said that.  It was a poor throw, but it still should have been caught, obviously.

     

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    BS!  I have said it many times on here, should have thrown it to the inside shoulder.  You arn't paying attention.  This has been a big topic on here.  Once again Rusty doesn't know what he is talking about!

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    Sorry, you never once blamed Brady for 3 atrocious plays in the SB, all 3 of which are unacceptable. You always try to blame the D before these 3 egregious errors:

    1. Safety when he could have run to his right, but lazily launched it to no one.

    2. INT on 1st down in the early 4th when he was out of the pocket.

    3. High throw to Welkie who dropped another catchable ball.

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    Once again, I blamed Brady for the pass to Welker, felt it should have been to the inside shoulder.  The outside shoulder Welker had slow down, do 180 in the air while trying to catch a ball that was thrown too high.  I have said it many times here, this is the one time me and Babe went head to head.  See, I have no problem admitting it, sorry you have such a huge problem admitting BB's shortcomings.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Waking up tomorrow morning isnt either joe. But we dont sit around and labor over it. Some here miss the joy for constantly looking for a reason to worry like a little bytche. They know who they are. GO PATS!

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    Good post. We have a lot of those on here.

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    In more than half of your posts, you fret over Tom Brady playing poorly in January again you flipping jagaloon.

    Get a clue. You're the worst offender but for some unknown reason Rallyc doesn't feel its necessary to call you out too. Why is that, rallyc?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Last week Amendola Surged!  According to Rusty.

     

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    Anyone that says that wasn't a drop is just a BB ballwashing homer. 

    Welker's was a drop. Amendola's was a drop. End of story. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    Look at that 1 handed grab with a LBs hands all over the ball.  Why couldn't Amendola bring it in with 2 hands?  So much harder catch then Amendola's.

     

    Danny knows he should have had it.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    Can everyone agree to this is the final debate?

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
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    What a troll TFB12 has become, folks. To have that kind of a hard on for a drop rate specialist in Welker is pretty sick.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just telling it like it is Russ.  Sorry that you feel the need to push the team agenda even though some of the decisions they make are the wrong ones.  Maybe you should have listened to me back in March instead of try to tell everyone how much better Amendola would be for the team.  Wouldn't have changed the decision BB made but it would have made you look less of a fool right now.

    Amendola came in got hurt as I predicted, he hasn't been anything near what you said he would be, not even close, as I predicted, he dropped the game winner vs the Dolphins and hasn't turned out to be that readzone threat you said he would be, as I predicted he wouldn't be, man either you are a jinx or you just let your pushing the agenda cloud your judgement.  Thank goodness Edelman has been able to stay healthy and take over to make up for the loss of Welker and the disappointing season from Amendola. 

    Remember all those posts you posted about how much time Amendola was spending with TFB during the off season?  Didn't seem to help much, did it.  Probably would have won at least 2 out of the 3 games between the Jets, Bengals or Panthers if Welker was still a Patriot, possibly all 3 even, and sitting in the drivers seat with the #1 seed and home field advantage through the playoffs.  To think this team wouldn't be better with Welker instead of Amendola is just plain moronic.  Once again, as I predicted.

    It's okay to be a fan and be objective Russ.  BB doesn't always make the right decisions, you should know this by now.

    Get your head out of the sand at BB beach, throw away those rose colored glasses you own and maybe pour out the Koolaid. 

    You defending every single move the team makes is ridiculous.  Either you don't know as much as you want to think you do or you let your BB love cloud your judgement.  Which is it?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    Its official! "MR. RELIABLE", Wee Widdle Wessie,  is punch drunk and has got a glass jaw! THANK GOD, and BB, Wessie's gone, JUST IN TIME. Poor widdle Wessie.......He got boo-boos. I'm sure his man-lovers here on BDC will insists that he is better being at hurt than JE or DA too...LOL! GO PATS!!!!!

    http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/broncos-wes-welker-likely-out-until-playoffs-281085.html

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    Its official! "MR. RELIABLE", Wee Widdle Wessie,  is punch drunk and has got a glass jaw! THANK GOD, and BB HE's gone, JUST IN TIME. Poor widdle Wessie.......He got boo-boos. I'm sure his man-lovers here on BDC will insists that he is better being at hurt than JE or DA too...LOL! GO PATS!!!!!

    http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/broncos-wes-welker-likely-out-until-playoffs-281085.html

     



    I am not sure he makes it back. If he tries to play, how long will it take for him to get whacked again? And, then it's a possible career over kind of thing.

     

    Just saying.

     

     

     

    We have seen the last of the Wes Welker we were familliar with. It time for him to take care of himself and live as healthy a life as he can. I hate to see anyone go through what he is, but I'm happy its not one of ours. Oh how it easily could have been. Again, good call by BB.....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    Just my 2c and observations.

    Barring anything drastic injury wise, and with everything projected, edelmen will have 16 games played, amendola 12, welker 13.  If Amendola and Eledmen perform as to their season average, edelmen will have 1050 yards on 102 receptions with 10.3 average yards per catch and 7 or 8 touchdowns.  Amendola will have 695 yards on 61 receptions for a 11.4 average and 2 touch downs.  Welker will finish how he is now, with 778 yards on 73 recptions for a 10.7 average and 10 touch downs.

     

    What I think, Edelmen was more durable then either of them, with Welker adapting to his new quarterback and system faster than Amendola, hense the receptions and targets are higher, but the percentage of rec to targets is virtually identical.  Amendola is slightly more dynamic(higher yards per catch, but Welker is more trusted by Manning(hense more TD's).  Edelmen has basically copied Welker in everything except TD's.  HAving both better deal then just Welker.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to fl+adam,'s comment:

     

    Just my 2c and observations.

    Barring anything drastic injury wise, and with everything projected, edelmen will have 16 games played, amendola 12, welker 13.  If Amendola and Eledmen perform as to their season average, edelmen will have 1050 yards on 102 receptions with 10.3 average yards per catch and 7 or 8 touchdowns.  Amendola will have 695 yards on 61 receptions for a 11.4 average and 2 touch downs.  Welker will finish how he is now, with 778 yards on 73 recptions for a 10.7 average and 10 touch downs.

     

    What I think, Edelmen was more durable then either of them, with Welker adapting to his new quarterback and system faster than Amendola, hense the receptions and targets are higher, but the percentage of rec to targets is virtually identical.  Amendola is slightly more dynamic(higher yards per catch, but Welker is more trusted by Manning(hense more TD's).  Edelmen has basically copied Welker in everything except TD's.  HAving both better deal then just Welker.

     

     

     

    For the immediate and future terms, Welker was already becoming a deteriorating liability. Look at his production over the last 6-weeks.......NOTHING. His value has fallen through the floor. Ths kind of damage is not like a knee sprian. It has larger, more damaging effects. He isn't now, nor will he ever likely be the same Wes Welker. Dude has already started to show signs. Sad, but very true............BB made the right call. 



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its official! MR. "RELIABLE", Wee Widdle Wessie,  is punch drunk and has got a glass jaw! THANK GOD HE's gone, JUST IN TIME. Poor widdle Wessie.......He got boo-boos. I'm sure his manlovers here will insists that he is better being at hurt than JE or DA too...LOL! GO PATS!!!!!

    http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/broncos-wes-welker-likely-out-until-playoffs-281085.html

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL, Look at RallyC continue to try and push the letting Welker walk decision was best for the team agenda with his pal Rusty.  It's a losing battle for you RallyC, it's already been proven it was a mistake.   Remember when you came on here crying that you can't hold the concussion injury against Amendol as it is a common injury in football nowdays.  Funny to see you doing it now to somehow save your rediculous predictions about how much better this team would be with Amendola over Welker.  That game winning drop last Sunday really destroyed your argument. 

     

    btw, would be a smart move by the Broncos to keep him out against the Raiders too next Sunday and save him for the playoffs.  The Texans and Raiders shouldn't be much problem for the Broncos. 

    Didn't Nate Solder just receive his 2nd concussion of the season?  Is he playing Sunday? Would you risk him playing?  Just curious.

    Is this the weekend Tebow comes in to play TE and catch passes from TFB like you said was going to happen?  You know, because you knew these things since you played in the CFL.  Come on, just admit it, you never played the game before.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    For the immediate and future terms, Welker was already becoming a deteriorating liability. Look at his production over the last 6-weeks.......NOTHING. His value has fallen through the floor. Ths kind of damage is not like a knee sprian. It has larger, more damaging effects. He isn't now, nor will he ever likely be the same Wes Welker. Dude has already started to show signs. Sad, but very true............BB made the right call. 



    [/QUOTE]


    More proof RallyC doesn't know much about the game.  I believe you were also on here with me saying Welker wouldn't have the season stats with the Broncos that he did with the Pats because of so many Bronco weapons.  Remember that?  But now it's deterioration in your eyes.  What a fraud you are RallyC.

    Once again, Pats would have beat the Jets and Bengals if Welker was here, and possibly the Panthers too.  Amendola didn't show up in any of those games.  Pats could be sitting with the 1 seed and the path to the SB going through NE.    Bad call BB. 

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to fl+adam,'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just my 2c and observations.

    Barring anything drastic injury wise, and with everything projected, edelmen will have 16 games played, amendola 12, welker 13.  If Amendola and Eledmen perform as to their season average, edelmen will have 1050 yards on 102 receptions with 10.3 average yards per catch and 7 or 8 touchdowns.  Amendola will have 695 yards on 61 receptions for a 11.4 average and 2 touch downs.  Welker will finish how he is now, with 778 yards on 73 recptions for a 10.7 average and 10 touch downs.

     

    What I think, Edelmen was more durable then either of them, with Welker adapting to his new quarterback and system faster than Amendola, hense the receptions and targets are higher, but the percentage of rec to targets is virtually identical.  Amendola is slightly more dynamic(higher yards per catch, but Welker is more trusted by Manning(hense more TD's).  Edelmen has basically copied Welker in everything except TD's.  HAving both better deal then just Welker.

    [/QUOTE]

    this is good observation and post...but does not address the elephant in the room...Amendola is owed $28million dollars, and can not stay on the field on a regular basis. Plus, the Pats do not have the cap space to pay JE what he will command on the open market, so he will leave.

    Pats could have had Wes for 2 years, and JE for 3-5 years for less money than having Amendola for 5 years.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Final Debate (Welker vs Amendola/Edelman)

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to fl+adam,'s comment:

     

    Just my 2c and observations.

    Barring anything drastic injury wise, and with everything projected, edelmen will have 16 games played, amendola 12, welker 13.  If Amendola and Eledmen perform as to their season average, edelmen will have 1050 yards on 102 receptions with 10.3 average yards per catch and 7 or 8 touchdowns.  Amendola will have 695 yards on 61 receptions for a 11.4 average and 2 touch downs.  Welker will finish how he is now, with 778 yards on 73 recptions for a 10.7 average and 10 touch downs.

     

    What I think, Edelmen was more durable then either of them, with Welker adapting to his new quarterback and system faster than Amendola, hense the receptions and targets are higher, but the percentage of rec to targets is virtually identical.  Amendola is slightly more dynamic(higher yards per catch, but Welker is more trusted by Manning(hense more TD's).  Edelmen has basically copied Welker in everything except TD's.  HAving both better deal then just Welker.

     

     

     

    For the immediate and future terms, Welker was already becoming a deteriorating liability. Look at his production over the last 6-weeks.......NOTHING. His value has fallen through the floor. Ths kind of damage is not like a knee sprian. It has larger, more damaging effects. He isn't now, nor will he ever likely be the same Wes Welker. Dude has already started to show signs. Sad, but very true............BB made the right call. 



    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, if you look at his late season colder weather production or production in the playoffs vs man coverage, he's disappeared.

    I mentioned this in previous postseasons point to he and Mankins not really showing up for us when it mattered.

    I think that is a big reason BB wisely walked.  If Edelman and Amendola perform in the postseason and show up Welkie, TFB12/PatsEng and their small group will be moritifed, with no more backpedaling available.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    No, sorrry because this will always have me concerned...

    He will make some clutch catches in his career but he won't make em all.  That will always be a concern, especially when its a game winning TD needed.

     
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