Fire Bill O'Brien!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!


    Okay Russ, I buy we need to run more effectively. I also buy that we tip our hand based on the personnel we use at RB. And, I agree with others that this is due to the fact that we don't have a "do it all lead back", but rather RB by committee.

    Yes, I prefer a balanced offense as well. I think it is key. Back to your point however, and central to this post is, "Is it not balanced today?" and, if not, "Why is it not balanced?". Is it about TB changing BB/OB's plays at the line over and over again because he loves to throw, or is it BB/OB not calling the proper plays at the proper times? This is a question we don't know the answer to, however, if like you said the buck stops at BB, then it's his fault, not Brady's. Someone already touched on this...If Brady is continually going against BB/OB on the field, then BB is letting him do it. I can't believe this is happening, and he is still playing. So, to me, the issue goes back to BB/OB and their game planning and play calling...not TB in terms of game planning/play calling, but TB in terms of execution.

    I don't expect Gronk, Wes and Branch to be open every play. I do expect that we would build receiving threats behind them that can get seperation and get open should they be covered. A defense can only stop so many players at one time. The issue is the 2 players they are keen on stopping (Gronk/Wes) both play in similar parts of the field, so you don't have to dedicate 2 to both of them, but rather employ a strategy like the Jets did last year. Couple that with Branch getting older and not getting seperation, Hern somewhat inconsistent at times, no true #1 back that can stay on the field consistently, and no developed receiving threats behind them, and this team can be significantly slowed down to a halt if we play a good D like Pitt, Baltimore, etc.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Flat out disagree: Brady didn't show in Dallas, NYGs and Pitt games this year, all teams with playoff caliber offenses. He barely showed to help us score in our 2 minute offense against Dallas, which in itself reflects our problem on offense. It was just like SB 42. Oh! But Brady threw a TD at the end so he's absolved for the other 57 minutes! These games prove our D holds or battles well enough to win, if only Brady showed up for 4 qtrs. You just can't get around reality, Lifer. You just can't do it. Since when does a medicore or bad QB win a SB, minus the bagjob in SB 40 between Pitt and Seattle? This is a QB based league with offense intended to be favored. ALl the rules favor the QB and offense. Are you disputing this?  You want me to stick to facts, but you ignore them?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]


    Righto Albert. We're going nowhere this year because of Brady. He is the problem, not this great D. Your usual brilliant analysis.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    I'm not sure I can fire a man that's been part of a team that has brought you a 10-3 rd an 30+pt. a game. I think the world of TB an what he's done for the team, can you imagine being O'Brien and having to deal with a prima-Donna, heck I think they've had to order 2 different helmet size's since the start of the season. He's getting out of hand
     
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    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]Enough ifs to show it's a repeating pattern, that is for sure.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]


    The only repeating pattern you have to focus on man-child is that Brady is pacing to throw top 5 all-time TD passes and break the single season yardage record.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Got enough "ifs" here or what?
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    My one "if" is that Brady may be changing the plays OB calls.  Based on OB's reaction, it is hardly far-fetched.

    There is no "if" that Brady was chewing out an innocent.

    There is no "if" that Brady threw a pass that was late, soft and behind the intended.

    There is no "if" that Brady was making Underwood the scapegoat of a possible loss that could have been pinned on Brady, but in no way pinned on Underwood, a guy that was blatantly held from the pass (and all the more reason Brady's pass was poor). 

    There is no "if" that OB was shouting, not punching.  Don't make it more than it was.

    FYI, re. the original post, did anybody miss that OB was the receivers coach in 2007?  You know, the best season in receiving history?  The guy is not exactly a dummy.

    BTW Babe, can you tone it down on the personal insults?  It doesn't make your opinions more valid or my opinions less valid.  It just looks stupid.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE] I don't expect Gronk, Wes and Branch to be open every play. I do expect that we would build receiving threats behind them that can get seperation and get open should they be covered. A defense can only stop so many players at one time. The issue is the 2 players they are keen on stopping (Gronk/Wes) both play in similar parts of the field, so you don't have to dedicate 2 to both of them, but rather employ a strategy like the Jets did last year. Couple that with Branch getting older and not getting seperation, Hern somewhat inconsistent at times, no true #1 back that can stay on the field consistently, and no developed receiving threats behind them, and this team can be significantly slowed down to a halt if we play a good D like Pitt, Baltimore, etc.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Bingo. Somebody gets its. Oustide receivers that weren't average or worse that can beat man would signifigantly help the offense. Instead you have Branch and Hernandez who isn't even a true wide out but he's basically the wild card on offense come playoff time. He's going to get the matchups. 
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!": Tom was not even talking to him he was talking to underwood of course Tom will not talk to BBlike that because BB will not go up to Tom face yelling at him while sitting down. That is the difference btw BB and OB BB will talk to him privately not yelling at him on the sideline remember he has to be restrained by BB himself that is not a good sign for OB because if it comes down to it whom do you think the team will ride with. I blame TB for replying him he should have ignored him.I can't understand why so many people on this blog siding with OB you think if it was Peyton, OB will be be gone after this season. I remember when a radio analyst was critizing manning last year for all the INts he was throwing last year, the sport analyst almost lost his job he has to mend with manning you guys don't what you got in an hall of fame QB I hope we all come after 10 yrs when Tom is gone then be back to old same PATS in the 90's.
    Posted by akoko[/QUOTE]

    Sorry but I could not even finish your post because you are flat-out wrong about BB never chewing out Brady in games.  Heck, I saw film of it only recently.  

    BB chews out Brady plenty. Maybe never as much as OB did Sunday, but then I never saw Brady jaw back at BB when BB was chewing him out.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]Babe, I want to add one point. Have you listened to Brady when he is mic'd just after he has made a bad play and is chewing out a receiver? He sounds EXACTLY like a spoiled brat.  His tone is whiney, nasally, shrill and childish.  It is truly grating. We've all heard the stories.  I just heard yesterday that Brady confessed to occasionally CRYING after throwing INTs during college practices.  CRYING!!!! The guy is so competitive that he loses his head at time.  When Charlie was here, he could contain Brady.  But as each successfully weaker OC came along, Brady has been more dominating.  He becomes his worst enemy at times. I am not anti-Brady, but only a fool will worship him as the perfect, faultless, end-all, be-all QB of the right-now.  That guy is playing in green and gold. Two years running, in fact.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Brady isn't perfect. Rodgers is playing better this year. If you're trying to say Rodgers had a better year last season then I disagree completely. And Rodgers clearly has better weapons. And as Gisele says, he's like a child. What is ludicrous is that he is having one of the great seasons of all-time and people complain incessantly about him.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Flat out disagree: Brady didn't show in Dallas, NYGs and Pitt games this year, all teams with playoff caliber offenses. He barely showed to help us score in our 2 minute offense against Dallas, which in itself reflects our problem on offense. It was just like SB 42. Oh! But Brady threw a TD at the end so he's absolved for the other 57 minutes! These games prove our D holds or battles well enough to win, if only Brady showed up for 4 qtrs. You just can't get around reality, Lifer. You just can't do it. Since when does a medicore or bad QB win a SB, minus the bagjob in SB 40 between Pitt and Seattle? This is a QB based league with offense intended to be favored. ALl the rules favor the QB and offense. Are you disputing this?  You want me to stick to facts, but you ignore them?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    First Russ, I said "in January". Yes, he had his issues against Dallas, NYG and Pitt, and the D played well against Dallas, and to a degree NYG before giving up 14 points in 5 minutes, but your D was all but sleeping against Pitt. Do you recall how easily Big Ben moved the ball in the 1st half? How about the 40min to 20min TOP? Do you expect the O to score 27 points in 20 mins against a very good D like Pitt?

    In terms of SB42, you can't put not scoring big points soley on Brady. McD has his faults, we had no running game which I know you like, our Oline didn't show up, and the Giants defense played inspired. What Brady did however perhaps with better playcalling down the stretch was put our team in a position to win at the end, and the D couldn't hold on. It goes back to my original question to you which you casually ignore because you don't want to answer...

    "With 2 minutes left, which unit do you have more confidence in winning the game for us?..the O or D?" I'd rather put the ball in Brady's hands any day of the week, and guess what...so would BB. That should tell you a thing or two about what BB thinks about your awesome defense.

    Back to thh SB....
    It's not that I am disregarding the other 57 minutes because I would have like the offense to score more and the prevent, soft D could have played bend don't break, but the fact is, just like the Dallas game, that Brady brought the team back and handed it to the defense to close. What would you say about a closing pitcher if he's handed the game in the 9th inning, up by a 2 runs, and then gives up 3 runs for the other team to win? Is it on him, or do you point to the offense for not scoring more in the 1st-8th innings?

    There have been some mediocre QBs that have won SBs due to very good defenses. How about Dilfer with the Ravens in 2000? or Johnson with Tampa  a few years later?....Both of these teams had very good defenses. But I will concur that most teams that win the SB have very good QBs. Just like our boy Brady.

    yes, offenses are favored in the new NFL, but so what? What's your point? it puts more pressure on the D, less pressure on the O? It is what it is.

    Please answer my original question above and it should provide you a nice dose of reality..
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Brady isn't perfect. Rodgers is playing better this year. If you're trying to say Rodgers had a better year last season then I disagree completely. And Rodgers clearly has better weapons. And as Gisele says, he's like a child. What is ludicrous is that he is having one of the great seasons of all-time and people complain incessantly about him.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Who do you mean?  Rogers, with the otherworldy QB rating, 39 TDs/ 6 INTs, undefeated, reigning champ, not chewing out his receivers on the sideline, well on his way to a repeat?

    Or Brady?  33/11, really good QB rating, last SB victory seven years ago, throwing to possibly the best TE of all-time and also the leading WR in the league, one of only three receivers all-time to have 4-100yd game games in four straight seasons? well on his way to elimination in the divisional, chewing-out faultless WRs all season long?

    BTW, I would not say Welker is not going to the HOF just yet.  I am not willing to say he will go for certain, either.  Too soon to say.  He is wracking up some massive stats and has shown to a be clutch player in the regular season.  If he can bring that to the post-season, win a SB or two, and/or do it for another team, how could he not be in the HOF? Again, too soon to say either way.

     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : lol! It's not you! 
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Stick to things your good at. Hypotheticals with no factual evidence and making up things and using opinion and claiming it's facts.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : My one "if" is that Brady may be changing the plays OB calls.  Based on OB's reaction, it is hardly far-fetched. There is no "if" that Brady was chewing out an innocent. There is no "if" that Brady threw a pass that was late, soft and behind the intended. There is no "if" that Brady was making Underwood the scapegoat of a possible loss that could have been pinned on Brady, but in no way pinned on Underwood, a guy that was blatantly held from the pass (and all the more reason Brady's pass was poor).  There is no "if" that OB was shouting, not punching.  Don't make it more than it was. FYI, re. the original post, did anybody miss that OB was the receivers coach in 2007?  You know, the best season in receiving history?  The guy is not exactly a dummy. BTW Babe, can you tone it down on the personal insults?  It doesn't make your opinions more valid or my opinions less valid.  It just looks stupid.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Funny how you deplore personal insults, then call me stupid. It is rather typical of your tendency to spin in general.

    Brady has the right to change the play. Brady has the right to question the receiver. OB has the right to address Brady but not to the point he has to be restrained. Spin it as you like, but the staff, including BB, was restraining OB, not Brady.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Sorry but I could not even finish your post because you are flat-out wrong about BB never chewing out Brady in games.  Heck, I saw film of it only recently.   BB chews out Brady plenty. Maybe never as much as OB did Sunday, but then I never saw Brady jaw back at BB when BB was chewing him out.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Yes, BB has jawed at Brady and Brady at BB, but it NEVER escalated like with OB. I don't know what you saw, but I and others clearly saw OB take it to another level, an unprofessional level. If you were in a court of law, you might even say his gestures/movements were "physically threatening". That is unprofessional in any profession.

    I like the fact OB came down on TB because he needs it from time to time. I just don't agree with how he did it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Whoi do you mean?  Rogers, with the otherworldy QB rating, 39 TDs/ 6 INTs, undefeated, reigning champ, not chewing out his receivers on the sideline, well on his way to a repeat? Or Brady?  33/11, really good QB rating, last SB victory seven years ago, throwing to possibly the best TE of all-time and also the leading WR in the league, one of only three receivers all-time to have 4-100yd game games in four straight seasons? well on his way to elimination in the divisional, chewing-out faultless WRs all season long?
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps you didn't actually read what I said. I said Rodgers is having a better year THIS season. Brady had a better year LAST season.




     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]Babe is either Giselle or Brady's mother or a person with a serious psychotic problem. Only Brady can change Brady and how this offense is run.  BB, too, but DURING games, he is the guy that really matters.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]


    Even Gisele knows enough about football to see the 2nd rated QB isn't a problem but the last rated D is. Clearly she understands the game better than you.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Yes, BB has jawed at Brady and Brady at BB, but it NEVER escalated like with OB. I don't know what you saw, but I and others clearly saw OB take it to another level, an unprofessional level. If you were in a court of law, you might even say his gestures/movements were "physically threatening". That is unprofessional in any profession. I like the fact OB came down on TB because he needs it from time to time. I just don't agree with how he did it.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Well said. Even BB stepped in to stop OB and OB virtually ignored him too.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    Whichever poster coined the term "complementary football" has it right in my opinion.  Been saying all season that the offense is its own worst enemy because of the success of the passing game.  They get quick leads and don't run the clock down (Bills game) and over-expose their defense.  They're in shotgun in situations when they should run (e.g. Sunday on the last drive).  They have a very good offense that, again, needs Brady to be perfect and is screwed if they get behind, especially against a good playoff D that can contain Brady.  The O is the best of the three squads (O, D, and ST) and it's time that playcalling and gameplanning reflects that.   

    I asked in another thread if the predominant two-TE gameplanning/offense is based on the offense palying to its strengths or covering up for a lack of talent at WR.  I think it's the latter, and a few other posters did as well.  Going into the playoffs, I think it will be critical for this offense to show that it can do something else other than feature Welker and Gronk.  Both of those guys are nightmare matchups for opposing defenses, but beyond them is there anyone else causing D coordinators to lose sleep at night? 

    Call me paranoid or negative, go ahead.  As good as a regualr season offense as this team has, I think one mediocre game by Brady e ffs their chances in the playoffs.   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Funny how you deplore personal insults, then call me stupid. It is rather typical of your tendency to spin in general. Brady has the right to change the play. Brady has the right to question the receiver. OB has the right to address Brady but not to the point he has to be restrained. Spin it as you like, but the staff, including BB, was restraining OB, not Brady.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    There is a big difference between saying somebody's action is stupid vs. calling somebody stupid.  I did the former.  Previously, you did the latter.  Your saying I have a tendency to spin is not a problem.  It attacks the action, not the person.  Do you understand my point? 

    You have attacked the person several times on this thread when you have disagreed with them.  I have not attacked the person at all.  

    I asked you to not attack the person and I wrote that attacking the person looks stupid.  I never wrote that you looked stupid.

    I think you are way off on your opinions about Brady.  I have combined facts and stats with opinion.  So we don't agree.  Big deal. We don't have to throw hate at each other, right?  LEt other fans at other forums stoop to that trap.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Yes, BB has jawed at Brady and Brady at BB, but it NEVER escalated like with OB. I don't know what you saw, but I and others clearly saw OB take it to another level, an unprofessional level. If you were in a court of law, you might even say his gestures/movements were "physically threatening". That is unprofessional in any profession. I like the fact OB came down on TB because he needs it from time to time. I just don't agree with how he did it.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I can agree with that.

     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Perhaps you didn't actually read what I said. I said Rodgers is having a better year THIS season. Brady had a better year LAST season.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Read your post again.  You wrote that "he" is having one the greatest QB season of all time and people are complaining.  Brady isn't even in the top two this year.  How can it be one of the greatest all-time?  

    Don't forget that the ruie changes have changed the the game to the point that today's passing stats can't be compared to stats from even seven years ago.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!


    Yes, I agree with your post Cables.

    I think a lot of folks discussed complimentary football on different boards, a lot of us on this one who have talked about it.

    And yes, the O is clearly the crown jewel of this team.

    You made an interesting piont...The O/team requires Brady to be perfect. Why is that? Is it becuase we are a pass heavy team (stats say otherwise, meaning we are actually fairly balanced between pass/run), or is it because our defense stinks and if Brady has an off game, our lousy defense can't pick up the slack?

    In terms of the point on the TEs...I think its both. Gronk and Hern are good if not great players, who provide match up issues for defenses. Therefore, you want to get them the ball, because, there should be mismatches more often than not for the Pats to exploit.
    So, the TE position is a position we invested heavily in, in 2010, and right now, its a position where we can create mismatches. We also invested in the WR position via the draft, but that didn't work out, and neither has Ocho, so if you want to pass with any consistency, Gronk, Hern, Wes and Branch to a degree are your only real options.
    My feeling is if we had hit on Tate or even Price, we would see a llittle different distribution of the ball, and also a 3rd dimension to this offense that would have potentially made it virtually unstoppable. IF we had also hit on Vereen or Ridley as the kid that can do it all, then the offense is unstoppable. So far, neither bets panned out.

    And, your last comment is telling. One mediocre game by Brady and this team is done because we are not built to withstand a storm on D like our previous SB caliber teams did.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]Babe, I want to add one point. Have you listened to Brady when he is mic'd just after he has made a bad play and is chewing out a receiver? He sounds EXACTLY like a spoiled brat.  His tone is whiney, nasally, shrill and childish.  It is truly grating. We've all heard the stories.  I just heard yesterday that Brady confessed to occasionally CRYING after throwing INTs during college practices.  CRYING!!!! The guy is so competitive that he loses his head at times.  When Charlie was here, he could contain Brady.  But as each successfully weaker OC came along, Brady has been more dominating.  He becomes his worst enemy at times. I am not anti-Brady, but only a fool will worship him as the perfect, faultless, end-all, be-all QB of the right-now.  That guy is playing in green and gold. Two years running, in fact.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]
    Boy, chris, have you missed the boat here with these comments. Brady is COMPETITIVE and hates mistakes and you have an issue with that? He is no different than any other athlete when it comes to reacting to making a bad play. I do not recall anyone annointing him as perfect. If you watched the sideline shots of him, he is SITTING down and only became loud when approached by O'Brien who may have said something to set him off, plus he NEVER stood up to get into O'Brien's face, which would have been a sign he "went off".  He sat through the whole episode and began to calmly drink his drink. We have seen Brady speak to receivers all the time when a play messes up.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Read your post again.  You wrote that "he" is having one the greatest QB season of all time and people are complaining.  Brady isn't even in the top two this year.  How can it be one of the greatest all-time?   Don't forget that the ruie changes have changed the the game to the point that today's passing stats can't be compared to stats from even seven years ago.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    It could mean that the top 3 this year are all enjoying one of the best seasons of all time simultanously.
     

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