Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team.

    RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts:

    Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation.

    Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three.

    Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one. 

    Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one.

    For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    They need balance on the offensive side of the ball. For some odd reason, they choose to abandon the run game (even when it is working), and they decide to go with the 3-5 wide shotgun formation. Every D-Coordinator knows they are going to pass, so it makes them one dimensional.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    There's more to fix here than just the offense.  It was the defense that probably had an influence on the decision making that so many complain about on this board.  My point is that it souldn't have.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    [QUOTE]There's more to fix here than just the offense.  It was the defense that probably had an influence on the decision making that so many complain about on this board.  My point is that it souldn't have.
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE]


    Yes, the D is a big problem too. But we can still win in spite of it. If this team were better in the red zone they WOULD be 10-2 or 11-1 - even with the Egg Nog Latte Defense (because opposing quarterbacks have time to order and drink one before they get any pressure).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    There are a lot of things here and there that you could point to with this team, and just fixing any of the problems would probably give us three more wins.  It really comes down to this; there is a fine line between winning and losing.  That being the case, it won't take much to get better.  Conversely, it doesn't take much to get worse either.  

    The majority of the "this is what is wrong" threads are correct.  What gives me some hope is the fact that we don't need to fix everything that is wrong.  If we can just fix one or two things we'll see a big improvement.  As I said, there is a fine line between winning and losing.  BB says it often; "they made a few more plays than us today" (Saints game notwithstanding).  

    As for the red zone, it's related to what many in the media and many of us fans are saying; this isn't the 2007 team, let's not play offense like it is.  Let's get back to being a smash mouth team.  Everyone likes to see a long bomb to Moss, but I'd rather see a bunch of short passes, tough runs, no highlight plays except one; the team hoisting the Lombardi trophy.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    It's not as simple as the red zone offense. Sure that's been a problem but we have numerous other problems, too. Offensively, we've become way too predictable. Its as if our play book has been reduced to one page.

    How many times have we seen this sequence; first down, long pass to moss, imcomplete. second down, run up the middle for 3 yards. third and 7, short pass to welker for six yards. 3 and done again. We're struggling for every first down and being done in by journeymen CBs like mike mackenzie.

    We're a quality OC, RB, OG, OT and WR or two away from having a SB quality offense  again.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    Fix the O-Line and you fix the Red Zone Offense.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:

    Good point about the RZO. It is a low hanging fruit. I believe they have the players to make it happen. Taylor's come back should help. What I hope is that his come back helps not just on the field but also in the locker room.

    There are two keys to improving the offense's success rate. People here have already harped on the balance and predictability.

    The other one I hope they fix has to do with Kaczur and Light. I think it is just a matter of coaching. They just need tor ealize that they need to keep hustling until the play is actually dead. I observed that they stop protecting TB after they stop the rusher's first effort. TB's been sacked or pressured many times because the rusher got through on the second effort. What I like about Vollmer is that he keeps protecting Brady even a second or two after the TB gets rid of the ball or the play ended. It's really basic stuff.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DavidSeattle. Show DavidSeattle's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    I agree about the ineffectivelness in the RedZone as a major problem. And the Off. does seem very predictable at times. Tom has overthrown wide open receivers on several occaissions in a few games that were sure scores.
     The Pats have not  been able to hold leads in some of the losses. They are missing the impact players of the past. They need the forced turn over on the last opponents drive. That has not occured. The win over Baltimore was not the result of a D Stop on the last series, but a droped ball.
     So there is a undesireable ballance now in my opinion. Neither side of the ball is getting it done when it matters.
     Go Pats
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DavidSeattle. Show DavidSeattle's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    [QUOTE]Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team. RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts: Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation. Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three. Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one.  Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one. For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
    Posted by Caesar1177[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DavidSeattle. Show DavidSeattle's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team. RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts: Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation. Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three. Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one.  Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one. For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
    Posted by Caesar1177

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DavidSeattle. Show DavidSeattle's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    [QUOTE]Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team. RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts: Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation. Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three. Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one.  Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one. For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
    Posted by Caesar1177[/QUOTE]
     I think that you are right on in your statements about the forgotten players and options for scoring from in close. TE in particular. 
     TE falls down on run fake. Gets up and is free for a quick TD catch a few steps away from the play direction..
     2 RB set on play action, the first back brush blocks on the run fake and is the primary receiver. It has worked for years
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    That most likely will not be fixed this season. They don't have the talent in there.

    Welker and Moss and Faulk are great, but the thing that is lost that they are all specialty peices. None of them are all around players. Moss is a deep threat. Welker is a short threat. Faulk is a swing pattern 3rd down back/screen specialist.

    NE needs an honest to goodness three down back, possesion TE, or true split end like Reggie Wayne, who can run power slants BUT represent the threat of running an outside pattern.

    Love Welker, but facts are facts, his height makes him useless on the perimeter. Love Moss, but facts are facts, his stride makes him useless as a quick slant option over the middle.
    Love Faulk, but facts are facts, he doesn't have the power to take it straight into the crowd for a TD, and is limited on the goal line.

    But let me lay out exactly what happens . . .


    1.) They can't run from the spread.
    2.) Moss can't stretch the field to open things for the mediocre guys underneath.
    3.) Bracket Moss and Welker in zone.
    4.) Chip Faulk.
    5.) Watson and Aiken aren't getting open.
    6.) If they leave the spread you stack the box, because Welker has to come off the field, and you can bltiz and bracket Moss here.

    Like I said in the game thread three or four times. This offense is incomplete. They either need to have a good hands back who can run from the spread head on, not a draw play, AND an o line that cna block for him. OR they need one other target aside from those three who can get himself open in short space, because Moss can't draw defenders deep to open things up.

    It is that simple.

    They need a Steve Jackson RB that won't force them to stack an I, or they need a split end or Te that can get himself open in short space.

    The talent isn't there. Maybe someone emerges in the enxt four weeks, but the fact is . . .NE's offense is ONE DIMENSIONAL. They are either running or passing, but the threat doesn't exist at the same time. Period.

    Thus the defense never truly needs to honor the other option..
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    [QUOTE]Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team. RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts: Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation. Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three. Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one.  Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one. For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
    Posted by Caesar1177[/QUOTE]

    I think you got it half right.  The other part of the equation is our Red Zone Defense - otherwise, we'd be like the Colts were -6 to 7 years ago or how we were playing in 2007. If we can't stop anyone, we aren't going to win big games.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team. RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts: Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation. Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three. Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one.  Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one. For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
    Posted by Caesar1177


    I agree with you 100%....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    [QUOTE]Seen a lot of posts about how the Pats should be 11-1, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. But they're not. Why? Because their D stinks? Partially. But to make that "would've, should've, could,ve" there is one problem in particular that has cost this team. RED ZONE OFFENSE. They stunk last year. They stink this year. Why? Maybe because they have forgotten about TE's, RB's and other targets beyond Welker and Moss. But here are the facts: Against the Jets: 3 FG's in the red zone. Convert two into TD's they win. Convert one into a TD and they are tied at the end of regulation. Denver: Again, red zone is horrible. They lose by three. Indy: Red Zone fumble. End Zone int. Two field goals in the red zone. They lose by one.  Miami: Two trips in the red zone. Zero points. They lose by one. For all the talk about the Pats D, it is the Red Zone O that is killing this team. That is coaching and decision making. They need more plays to the TE's and RB's. If they start converting maybe (MAYBE!!) they can do a little damage in the postseason. Regardless of the horrible pass rush.
    Posted by Caesar1177[/QUOTE]


    yea your right about this, i really think that this years red zone problems have been due to lac of depth at receiver, and lac of commitment to our tight ends and running game.

    i also think we sometimes try to get too fancy in the red zone, i would like to see us just try to punch the ball in there or play action to the tight ends, just because vrable isnt here anymore doesnt mean we cant throw it to our tight ends in goal line formation!

    could it also be the lac of a true lead blocking full back?
    no more heath evans or russ hoechstein.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    another thought:

    When we had a strong running game with Corey Dillon he was our main threat in the red zone, so the play action HAD to be respected by the defense, thus leaving our tight ends open in the back of the end zone.

    I dont think maroney, faulk, or morris get that type of respect.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    [QUOTE]another thought: When we had a strong running game with Corey Dillon he was our main threat in the red zone, so the play action HAD to be respected by the defense, thus leaving our tight ends open in the back of the end zone. I dont think maroney, faulk, or morris get that type of respect.
    Posted by Patsfan24-7[/QUOTE]


    You don't even need a Dillon to win. A Smith got it done when it counted.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    I think you have the right idea:
    Choose one area and focus on it.

    They can't fix everything during the middle of the season, but if they just focus on scoring TD's every time they get into the red zone and pour themselves into concentrating on that one focus area, then I think they can improve their ability to win football games significantly.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team

    In Response to Re: Fix the Red Zone O and You Fix this Team:
    Fix the O-Line and you fix the Red Zone Offense.
    Posted by K-max

     You can start with trading Nick Kaszur to the MBTA ! He makes a better turnstyle   than he'll ever be an offensive lineman !
     

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