Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

         According to an article by Chiefs' beatwriter Jason Whitlock, its'  time to reconsider the conventional wisdom that Scott Pioli "stole" Matt Cassel from the Patriots for a second round pick. He points out that Cassel's agent, Dave Dunn, seems to be driving an extremely hard bargain on a long term deal for the former Pats' QB. As a result, Pioli has seemingly opted to pass on a long term deal, and let Cassel's one year, $14.65mil. deal play out.

         Whitlock went on to say that, without Randy Moss (who he calls "the greatest offensive force in the NFL since Jim Brown") and Wes Welker, its' likely that Cassel will fall on his face in KC. If that happens, it may turn out that Pioli traded the 34th overall pick to the Pats for a one year rental on Cassel: 
    http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1218162.html     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Of course Cassel is going to fall (well, actually, get planted) on his face in Missouri. I have a hard time believing Pioli didn't know that, given the lack of a supporting cast (or an offensive philosophy) when Cassel was acquired. More than anything, I think the Gonzalez trade spelled doom for whomever was going to try to survive behind the Swiss cheese on K.C.'s o-line. Of course, I'm not sure how wise it is for Cassel to be playing hard ball either, because a year from now he's going to be right back where he was a year ago. It's a tricky situation, most likely compounded by the fact that Cassel (like most athletes) believes he is better than he is. I get that he is trying to maximize his moment in the sun (and $15 million is not lunch money), but if he plays out this contract and gets pummeled the way I expect he will, this kid is out of the league next year.


    Having said all that, I would just like to point out that Jason Whitlock is a racist moron.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Guys, Cassel has proven that he is a good QB, and to say that Randy Moss is responsible for that is ludicrous. Randy dropped a ton of passes last year - passes that were sure TD's at several points. Welker was a big reason for his success, but you can say the same about Tom. In addition, I think that it seemed like almost every interception was the result of Watson not catching a ball and instead tipping it to the other team.

    Basically the biggest reason that we lost 5 games last year was our D. After getting destroyed by the Chargers and the Dolphins (both extremely early in the season), I really don't think Cassel cost us a single game. Usually he hung a ton of points up on the board.

    That being said, I think ANYONE in KC right now is going to have a tough time. I think we know it, Cassel knows it, Cassel's agent definitely knows it, and every front office in the league knows it.

    I think Cassel is probably taking a pretty educated gamble - either he will succeed in KC and then get paid extremely well by them OR he will fail, but in that case I seriously doubt that he will look like the reason for it, and he'll get hired by another team who remembers his success with the Pats and knows how bad KC was.

    People need to stop polarizing players who don't play for the team anymore. Let's face it - if we'd been ANY OTHER TEAM (besides the Colts, Saints and maybe Steelers) in the league we would have been ecstatic that we had a player like that on our team and would have done anything to keep him.

    ***Remember: How many other teams made 11-5 with a crappy secondary, major injuries and loss of time for ~15 starting players, and had a QB who hadn't started a game since HS. To say that Cassel didn't have anything to do with that is just being dumb.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsChowder. Show PatsChowder's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Not to sound too arrogant about the team, but Cassel was great because the team around him was great. That's not to say that he'll be a bad QB in Kansas City, but the supporting cast certainly won't help him.

    Do they have buyers' remorse? I doubt it.

    They have a young QB who has proven that he can lead a good team to an 11-5 record which in 99% of the seasons would equal a playoff run. Pioli will get Cassel the talent, but in the short term it's going to look like a major win for the Patriots. We're not going to be able to tell who came out on the better end of this deal until 2012.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]Guys, Cassel has proven that he is a good QB, and to say that Randy Moss is responsible for that is ludicrous. Randy dropped a ton of passes last year - passes that were sure TD's at several points. Welker was a big reason for his success, but you can say the same about Tom. In addition, I think that it seemed like almost every interception was the result of Watson not catching a ball and instead tipping it to the other team. Basically the biggest reason that we lost 5 games last year was our D. After getting destroyed by the Chargers and the Dolphins (both extremely early in the season), I really don't think Cassel cost us a single game. Usually he hung a ton of points up on the board. That being said, I think ANYONE in KC right now is going to have a tough time. I think we know it, Cassel knows it, Cassel's agent definitely knows it, and every front office in the league knows it. I think Cassel is probably taking a pretty educated gamble - either he will succeed in KC and then get paid extremely well by them OR he will fail, but in that case I seriously doubt that he will look like the reason for it, and he'll get hired by another team who remembers his success with the Pats and knows how bad KC was. People need to stop polarizing players who don't play for the team anymore. Let's face it - if we'd been ANY OTHER TEAM (besides the Colts, Saints and maybe Steelers) in the league we would have been ecstatic that we had a player like that on our team and would have done anything to keep him. ***Remember: How many other teams made 11-5 with a crappy secondary, major injuries and loss of time for ~15 starting players, and had a QB who hadn't started a game since HS. To say that Cassel didn't have anything to do with that is just being dumb.
    Posted by timesedge[/QUOTE]

    No.  Cassel took a Record breaking #1 Offense and turned it into a better than average Offense.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveM1967a. Show DaveM1967a's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    It doesn't really matter for the Pats if he's a bust or not.  It's been beaten to death, but what matters is the Pats should have gotten more for him, as he was at the top of his trade value.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Cassel did pretty good considering he was thrown into the fire with no meaningful
    NFL experience and a dreadful pre-season performance. He put up bushels of points in lousy weather and basically put us in position to get into the playoffs.
    If Tom Brady had directed that game-tying drive against the Jerks, he would have been canonized on the spot.
    KC might have a poor offensive line but Cassel can run. 
    If Johnson is in the mood to run as well, their offense should be ok. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]No.  Cassel took a Record breaking #1 Offense and turned it into a better than average Offense.
    Posted by m1020us[/QUOTE]

    you mean 5th ...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Cassel might do better in KC than a lot of people think. And the Chiefs biggest problem is not QB protection, but their defense. They could not close out games, and lost a few close ones when the opposition made a huge comeback in the 4th quarter. Losing Gonzalez will sting a bit (for Cassel, at least), but I expect him to do alright there. He certainly should be able to guide the team to a better record, it's not hard to improve on 2-14!!! I can see his agent trying to score a big contract, but we all know Pioli will not "break the bank". I guess they'll work something out. I also doubt that should Cassel become a FA after the 09 season he will be out of the league, either. There are quite a few teams who can use an upgrade at the position. Just another inflammatory article since there are no games (or even training camps) yet for any "real" news. Regardless of any contract disputes, Pioli would not have traded for Cassel unless he thought he could play. Since they have not yet stepped onto the field, I'll defer to Pioli's judgement over some media hack who is desperate for a story!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Matt Cassel is smart for playing hard ball i think. For one he might fall on his face so if he can get a bigger pay day now then why not? And if they turn him down for a long term deal he gets a one year 14 milluions dollar contract so its win win for him. Plus if he plays out this one year and does great he will be the top free agent next year and once again its a winnign situation and if he does badly he still makes 14 million this year which is enough money to set him up for life and then he gets to become the highest paid back up QB in the NFL so again its a win win for him. Matt Cassel is playing it smart.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]you mean 5th ...
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    Sure, 5th is better than average....but I am sure you meant 8th.  I prefer to go by Point per game, rather than Yards per game, since Points are more important to winning games.

    Brady led team:
    2007:
    295.7 passing yds per game (1st)
    36.8 points per game
    50 TD (1st)


    Cassel led team:

    2008:

    223.1 Passing Yds per game (12th)
    25.6 points per game
    21 TD (13th)

    So yes, ranking 12th and 13th is slightly above average......and that is with Welker and Moss on the team.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]Sure, 5th is better than average....but I am sure you meant 8th.  I prefer to go by Point per game, rather than Yards per game, since Points are more important to winning games. Brady led team: 2007: 295.7 passing yds per game (1st) 36.8 points per game 50 TD (1st) Cassel led team: 2008: 223.1 Passing Yds per game (12th) 25.6 points per game 21 TD (13th) So yes, ranking 12th and 13th is slightly above average......and that is with Welker and Moss on the team.
    Posted by m1020us[/QUOTE]
    If your argument is wins, the only stat necessary is the 11-5 record vs 16-0 record. Points per game are no more meaningful than yards per game to determine how good is an offense. Splitting up with TDs and passing yards is meaningless to the argument. 5th in yards, 8th in points.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Like I've been saying all along, the Pats and BB got the best of this deal bigtime.  A 2nd rd pick was the best offering on the table because most GM's(except in Oakland) are not as dumb as most fans think.  Cassel was basically a product of the system and most likely a "one year wonder".   I like Cassel and was one of his biggest defenders early last season when most wanted to hang Cassel out to dry, especially after the Miami game.  But I see his 1st year in K.C. as a major disaster.  Letting Tony G. go for a 2nd rd pick in 2010 was a dumb move by Pioli and is really going to hurt Cassel chances of success in K.C.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]If your argument is wins, the only stat necessary is the 11-5 record vs 16-0 record. Points per game are no more meaningful than yards per game to determine how good is an offense. Splitting up with TDs and passing yards is meaningless to the argument. 5th in yards, 8th in points.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    I never said wins....I am talking about the how Cassel took the same offense that was #1 in 2007 and made it slightly better than average.

    Someone pointed out that the 2008 offense was ranked 5th, which is wrong.  It was 5th in Yards, and 8th in points.  Points per game is no more meaningful than Yards pergame?  I have never seen a game won by how many yards each team got.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]I never said wins....I am talking about the how Cassel took the same offense that was #1 in 2007 and made it slightly better than average. Someone pointed out that the 2008 offense was ranked 5th, which is wrong.  It was 5th in Yards, and 8th in points.  Points per game is no more meaningful than Yards pergame?  I have never seen a game won by how many yards each team got.
    Posted by m1020us[/QUOTE]

    I've never seen winning by 50 points holding more weight than winning by 1.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Or you could just rate the Pats offense 4th.

     

    New Orleans Saints, 1 and 1

    Arizona Cardinals, 4 and 3

    New York Giants, 7 and 3

    New England Patriots, 5 and 8

    Green Bay Packers, 8 and 5

    San Diego Chargers, 11 and 2

    Atlanta Falcons, 5 and 10

    Philadelphia Eagles, 9 and 6

    Carolina Panthers, 10 and 7

    Denver Broncos, 2 and 16

    Houston Texans, 3 and 17

    New York Jets, 16 and 9

    Indianapolis Colts, 15 and 13

    Baltimore Ravens, 18 and 11

    Minnesota Vikings, 17 and 12

    Dallas Cowboys, 13 and 18

    Miami Dolphins, 12 and 21

    Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 14 and 19

    Tennessee Titans, 21 and 14

    Chicago Bears, 26 and 14

    Pittsburgh Steelers, 22 and 20

    Jacksonville Jaguars, 20 and 24

    San Francisco 49ers, 23 and 22

    Washington Redskins, 19 and 28

    Buffalo Bills, 25 and 23

    Kansas City Chiefs, 24 and 26

    Seattle Seahawks, 28 and 25

    Detroit Lions, 30 and 27

    St Louis Rams, 27 and 30

    Oakland Raiders, 29 and 29

    Cleveland Browns, 31 and 30

    Cincinnati Bengals, 32 and 32

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Or we could all agree that you can fold, spindle and mutilate statistics to make any point you care to invent.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]Or we could all agree that you can fold, spindle and mutilate statistics to make any point you care to invent.
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]


    Or we could just agree with the naked eye and common sense.

    The Pats' offense power was a fraction of what it was the season prior, no matter how you slice it.

    Matt Cassel single handedly lost games for NE.

    It isn't even a comparison between Cassel 08 and Brady 07.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    I think it would be more fair to compare cassel,and bradys first year stats.instead of a first year,and a 6th year stat.how many teams go 11-5 and not make the play offs?and the pats were on a role down the streatch,and if they had gotten in the playoffs,they would have done some damage.there was a report that they plan on extending his contract by the beginning of the season.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    I can't think of any time that Cassel "lost the game" for the team. Possibly the Steelers, but they were the best defense in the league. I think the Ravens may have beat him had they met in January. But the games that were lost were mainly due to the defense. In both the Miami and San Diego games they gave up 30 points (or more). They failed to stop the Jests in OT (after Cassel led them from behind to tie it at the end). Indy was really close. I'd say that stupid penalty was more a cause of losing than Cassel. That leaves Pittsburgh, and the second half collapse. By the end of the season Cassel was pretty much moving the offense at will. If he improves at the rate he did in 08 he'll do fine in KC. Although trading Gonzales didn't make sense to me. That guy is a QB's best friend inside the 15 yard line! We'll see how he does. KC will still s u c k if they don't improve a lot on defense. In 08 they couldn't stop anyone, especially in the 4th quarter.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    At this juncture, folks, does it really matter how Cassel does in KC?  He is no longer a Patriot and I prefer we keep to our Pats and what this team will do with a healthy Brady, not a KC team with a former Pat player.

    Sorry for being to the point!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    I can't see how they have buyers remorse.  They got Cassel AND Vrabel for a second round pick.  Cassel would have to be a complete "Ryan Leaf" like flop for that trade to be deemed bad.  Considering Vrabel was thrown into the deal too, just how good does a quarterback need to be to justify the second round pick?  If there are any regrets, it will probably be having to pay the franchise salary that he came with.  Considering the trade compensation, it's plausible that Pioli thinks Cassel is a good QB, but not a great QB.  I doubt he wants to overpay Cassel this year, but it's not very probable that Cassel will have the same type of year this season as he had last season.  With every game, Cassel's leverage will diminish.  Pioli may very well end up securing Cassel for a more realistic number.

    Putting aside what I think is probable, I hope Cassel has a stellar year.  I hope he slings the rock with the best of them.  We all thought our season was lost when Brady got injured.  Cassel came in and gave us a respectable season.  We didn't make the playoffs at 11-5, but I chalk that up to an unusual occurrence and do not blame Cassel.  I can't wish anything but the best for Cassel.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rocher. Show rocher's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Both Brady and Cassell will be without Josh Mcdaniels. We will see how that works out for both of them. And we will see what Mcdaniels does without casel or Brady.
    It continues to amaze me that many Pats fans don't seem the least bit concerned that Mcdaniels is gone and there is no OC. They didn't become a record setting offense until he was entrenched as OC. (and Moss showed up, haha).

    It concerns me anyway. I do not think it will be a non factor.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    [QUOTE]Both Brady and Cassell will be without Josh McDaniels. We will see how that works out for both of them. And we will see what Mcdaniels does without casel or Brady. It continues to amaze me that many Pats fans don't seem the least bit concerned that McDaniels is gone and there is no OC. They didn't become a record setting offense until he was entrenched as OC. (and Moss showed up, haha). It concerns me anyway. I do not think it will be a non factor.
    Posted by rocher[/QUOTE]

         Bill O'Brien was promoted to replace Josh McDaniels as QB coach: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2009/01/22/patriots
    _promote_obrien/
     

         This transition is similar to what BB did when Charlie Weis left...when he promoted McDaniels to QB coach, and eased him in to the OC post. The same thing will happen with O'Brien.

         That said, I agree with you that McDaniels never got much credit from Pats fans in this forum. In fact, many unfairly blame the SB loss to the NY Giants on him. McDaniels more than adequately replaced Weis...and O'Brien will at least adequately replace McDaniels. How do I know this?

         In Bill We Trust. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Folks in Kansas City Having "Buyers' Remorse" on Cassel?

    Rocher, I don't know if the fans aren't concerned.  Speaking for myself, I think I've just become numb to Pats personnel leaving for other opportunities.  I thought we were doomed when both Charlie and Romeo departed.  I was never really crazy about Josh though.  I know he was the OC during our record setting 2007 season, but I think a lot of fans feel the same way.  He could be both a genius and an idiot in the same game.  How much credit should he get for the 2007 season?  I guess we'll get a better feel for that this year.  This is kind of like another version of the "great QB makes the receivers great and vice versa" argument.  The truth is probably both.  BB liked him, so I must be wrong.  
     

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