Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    My prediction on Wallace (made on 2/11) is looking better each day.  Wallace was quoted as saying NE or SF would be great fits for him and he basically owes it to himself to explore his options.  Willy McGinest stated today that the Patriots would be the better fit for Wallace because he is assured of gaining over 1,000 yards each season.  Willy cites what Brady was able to do for Moss.  Wallace being much younger than Moss would be a huge weapon for years to come and at the cost of pick 31, we get a known commodity.

    I first posed this question to Mike Reiss on 2/7 and he was skeptical in his reply.  However, he devoted a huge portion of his piece on ESPN.com today about Wallace.  See below an excerpt.

    The possibility of making a run at Steelers restricted free agent Mike Wallace has been analyzed in this space. Wallace is the type of outside-the-numbers speed receiver that the Patriots (and other teams) could use, but the cost would be steep.

    The following are three perspectives on Wallace:

    [+] Enlarge
    Mike Wallace
    Mitch Stringer/US Presswire
    1. View from Pittsburgh. Ed Bouchette, who covers the team for the Post-Gazette, blogs an informative piece on Wallace. Bouchette dissects how Wallace's free-agent scenario is likely to unfold -- the Steelers tendering him at the first-round level as a restricted free agent -- and then sums up his NFL career this way: "His first three seasons have been rocket-like, with him climbing higher and higher. However, in the middle of what seemed to be his best and record-setting season [in 2011], Wallace fizzled. ... Here's the question the Steelers and other prospective suitors in free agency must determine: Did defenses figure out Mike Wallace finally as the one-trick pony that Mike Tomlin long declared he was?"

    2. Belichick's take on Wallace. Prior to the Patriots-Steelers game on Oct. 30, 2011, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked about Wallace, who was targeted as a key player to limit in the game-plan, which opened up the inside passing game for the Steelers. "He's a big play receiver. He's really fast. Nobody is going to catch him, so you have to be careful about how much space he gets when he catches the ball," Belichick said. "I think he's improved a lot from when we played them last year, just as a football player, his patience and route technique. He has great speed but he also is getting better at route technique, setting up routes, using his speed, changing his pace. He's good after the catch with the ball in his hands. He breaks tackles and eludes people, does a nice job of going up and getting the ball in the deep part of the field, he's taken it away from some defensive backs. I'd say overall [he] improved his route running in the red area where there's less space. He still is a key guy down there. He did a lot of things well last year, doing them well this year and even better. [He's made] plays in just about every game. He stretches the field but he can also take a short pass and turn it into a long run, so you have to defend him from the line of scrimmage to the back of the end zone and from sideline to sideline. He's a tough guy to match up on. He's done a good job. Obviously he's worked hard and he's being well coached and he's got a good quarterback and other good receivers to complement him. He's part of their very productive offense."

    3. Caserio's take on Wallace. On a conference call on Oct. 24, leading into the Patriots-Steelers game, Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio was asked about Wallace, who entered the league as a third-round draft choice out of Mississippi in 2009. Why did he slip to the third round? "Coming out he was a big, fast receiver. His production, just in a relative base - I think he had back-to-back 30-catch years. Some of that was the offense, some of that was some other factors," Caserio said. "But since he's been in the league, since year one up until this point, he's really improved just as an overall receiver. I think he was big and could always run. He's just become more consistent in all phases - route running, catching the ball, understanding coverages, just understanding how the defense is playing. Really these last couple years, including this year, he's played at a very high level. He had a real productive year for their offense last year. I think he's averaged, I want to say, 20 yards or close to 20 yards a catch since he's been in the league, so he's always been a big play receiver who can attack the third level part of the defense - the vertical part of the defense. He's done some other things just with the underneath route running and he's improved. It's a credit to him and a credit to the Pittsburgh coaching staff for what they've done with him."
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]if the writing on the wall is correct then wallace will be wearing a new uni next season. “[Pittsburgh is] where I would like to be, but we all know that it is a business and you have certain things you have to handle," Wallace told Sirius NFL Radio, via the  Pittsburgh Tribune-Review . "So if I have to go elsewhere, you know Pittsburgh will always be in my heart, but I have to do what I have to do." The Steelers could use the franchise tag on Wallace in order to keep him under contract for another season, but that would result in a hefty $9.6 million salary cap hit that would further hamstring the team for the 2012 season. With 2011 team MVP Antonio Brown set to become a restricted free agent after next season, Pittsburgh could find it difficult to justify two major investments in receivers with similar skillsets. Emmanuel Sanders is also up for free agency in 2013. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/if-steelers-let-mike-wallace-go-patriots-49ers-could-be-good-fits/2012/02/22/gIQARx6wTR_blog.html
    Posted by ricky12684[/QUOTE]
    Thanks for posting that Ricky.  Someone is going to sign Wallace away.  I honestly doubt it will be the Patriots but we are poised to do something big in free agency.  Cutting Orhnberger and Wright cleared $3MM of cap space and we could clear another $3.5MM by cutting Ocho, Thomas and Barrett.  $6.5MM cleared in cap would be enough to sign Wallace, Welker, another big free agent on D and our draft picks.
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    I'm apparently among the few who believe that adding Arian Foster (or any other big name RB) would have none to marginal impact on the Pats offense, EXCEPT in the unlikely event they radically change their offensive philosophy (don't hold your breath). Yes, Foster is better than Green-Ellis, but not that much that it would make any significant difference in the offense as presently run.

    They aren't going to start running stretch plays or screens. So what would Foster give them that Green-Ellis doesn't? An extra half yard per carry?  Maybe. But at what cost, a first round pick (or high second if you want to look at it that way) and a mega-contract?  That's just not smart business.

    With this QB, this system and this coaching staff, the gain represented by adding a Wallace (or other productive WR) is much greater.  The difference between Wallace and Ocho/Underwood or even Branch is cavernous when compared to the difference between Foster and BJGE/Ridley.

    On another note, if the Steelers make James Farrior available (as was mentioned in the OP), that's a no-brainer.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    ^ i think our hope is that if we sign a big FA running back that we would in fact change our philosophy back to being a more balanced team.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]I'm apparently among the few who believe that adding Arian Foster (or any other big name RB) would have none to marginal impact on the Pats offense, EXCEPT in the unlikely event they radically change their offensive philosophy (don't hold your breath). Yes, Foster is better than Green-Ellis, but not that much that it would make any significant difference in the offense as presently run. They aren't going to start running stretch plays or screens. So what would Foster give them that Green-Ellis doesn't? An extra half yard per carry?  Maybe. But at what cost, a first round pick (or high second if you want to look at it that way) and a mega-contract?  That's just not smart business. With this QB, this system and this coaching staff, the gain represented by adding a Wallace (or other productive WR) is much greater.  The difference between Wallace and Ocho/Underwood or even Branch is cavernous when compared to the difference between Foster and BJGE/Ridley. On another note, if the Steelers make James Farrior available (as was mentioned in the OP), that's a no-brainer.
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]
    I see this the complete opposite way you do, I believe we don't see all the type of plays you mentioned (screens, stretch, draws, delays, etc.) because Benny is limited in what he can do. I think the guy seems like a good guy and all, but he's not quick/fast enough to do many things - his lack of ability to change direction also hurts him. Benny is not exactly a power back either, he'll break tackles once he gets going, but most backs can do that...this is not a guy with explosive strength that will just bowl people over regularly.

    I DO think the offense would change if we had a guy that could consistently demonstrate the ability to cut back into open lanes, break tackles, make people miss, and out run someone. We have 4 different guys that do a little bit of this and a little bit of that...defenses know exactly what to expect when each one of them comes into the game, it would be nice to have a guy that could do almost all of it. It would certainly keep teams guessing.
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : ...I DO think the offense would change if we had a guy that could consistently demonstrate the ability to cut back into open lanes, break tackles, make people miss, and out run someone. We have 4 different guys that do a little bit of this and a little bit of that...defenses know exactly what to expect when each one of them comes into the game, it would be nice to have a guy that could do almost all of it. It would certainly keep teams guessing.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    I just don't think your view is realistic. I would like to see them run more, but I just don't see any way that happens as long as Tom Brady is running the offense. Certainly Josh McDaniels is not going to bring about any such change. Therefore this talk of acquiring Arian Foster or any other big name RB, while an interesting chat room topic, is in the end pointless.  It's far more likely that they target a WR in free agency.

    I do disagree that Foster is a huge improvement over what they already have. He's better than BJGE of course, but not so much better as to justify the enormous acquisition cost, especially when they have far more pressing needs primarily on the defensive side. 

    I also don't agree with you assessment of Ridley/Vereen. Frankly I was impressed by Ridley in his limited play and look forward to much bigger things from him. Vereen barely saw the field so I don't see how you can judge him at all. 
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : I think you are right in that Foster would probably be the better choice to give us a more balanced attack.  I'm not so sure to sign either of these guys would be that expensive.  Keep in mind, both players would only get a 1 year deal worth less than $3MM if they took the RFA contract.  If we were to offer a 4 year, $30MM deal and guarantee $20MM they would be in a whole lot better place getting nearly 10 X the money vs. risk a career ending injury. As far as the D goes, we would still have enough cap to sign 2 quality players depending on other moves we could make, plus still have 3 of the top 63 draft picks.  For instance, if we released Matt Light, that would free up $5MM of cap.  Assuming Vollmer is healthy we start him and Solder with Cannon backing up.  We might be able to part ways with Light, let him test the market and perhaps bring him back on a $3MM one year deal or something.  At some point the torch needs to get passed to our #1 pick.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    I like your posts and the idea of forcing Pitt's hand with Wallace, but I don't agree about Light. He's proven himself year in and out and isn't THAT old. Vollmer is injury prone and alwways has back problems. We need Light!
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]Hey Faucet, this isn't really related (unless we get Foster), but I was going through some of my old VCR tapes and saw this Fred Taylor touchdown, http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8157328d/Taylor-scores-2nd-TD Green-Ellis can block! Here's another from the same game, http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81572010/Taylor-TD-run I don't recall seeing Benny playing fullback since but he looked good in those two highlights. I can invision him doing the same thing next year blocking for Vereen or some other speedster.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    lol I just saw Fred Taylor last night playing $100 hands of blackjack at the Hollywood Florida Hard Rock casino
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]I like your posts and the idea of forcing Pitt's hand with Wallace, but I don't agree about Light. He's proven himself year in and out and isn't THAT old. Vollmer is injury prone and alwways has back problems. We need Light!
    Posted by jader[/QUOTE]
    Word is Light is thinking about retiring so if he does, nothing we can do about it.

    As for Wallace, PIT just restructured Big Ben's deal.  They are now just $3MM over the cap.  They will need to restructure Troy P. deal too and probably make some cuts to free up the $9MM or so they need to sign Wallace.  I think all the talk about the Pats, Ravens or Niners going after Wallace has the Steelers sufficiently afraid that they don't dare take the cheap way out by restricting him.  Instead, they are creating more long term cap problems and spending more money to keep Wallace.  This was a stated goal, either way we win.

    I'm actually cooling off a little on giving up the pick.  I would much rather get some impactful free agents, especially on D then use the draft to replace some of the older guys with high cap numbers, like Light and Ocho.  Cutting Wright and Orhnberger cleared $3MM of cap space so that's a nice start.  I actually would not mind drafting a Mike Adams if there at 27.  That would give us enough depth to not miss Light.  We save another $3.7MM replacing Light with Adams.  Solder and Vollmer should be able to hold down the fort at RT with Solder playing that 3rd blocking TE role.

    We would have more than enough cap space to sign CB Brandon Carr (KC), FS Thomas DeCoud (ATL), DE Adam Carriker (WAS) and OLB Anthony Spencer (DAL).  Offensively we can go after Brandon Lloyd (STL) to replace Branch bring back Connolly, but I would let BJGE walk unless he'll play for less than $3MM.
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    I agree BJGE is gone if he wants more then 3. I also think Lloyd would be a great fit here.
     
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    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : ...Offensively we can go after Brandon Lloyd (STL) to replace Branch bring back Connolly, but I would let BJGE walk unless he'll play for less than $3MM.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Does signing Lloyd (or any WR) necessarily mean Branch has to go? He can still play and I don't see why they couldn't play together.
     

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