Getting defensive..

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    Re: Getting defensive..

    Excellent well thought out post.  +1

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    You trying to take TFB's Job!?!?!

     

    Good post

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

     

    Excellent well thought out post.  +1

     



    I was actually pretty buzzed when I wrote it but thx :-)

    Hard to avoid Seattles Legal weed scene...

     



    Yea I bet! Seattle got that Sticky. Boston is right behind you all though

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    I like the moves so far but I think on D they have a way to go:

    CB's - I liked they resigned Talib and agree continuity is going to be a very big thing but Cole to me didn't show anything with the Jets or anything with extremely limited reps for the Pats. I also have concerns that past Talib and Dennard there is no one on the roster I'd trust week in and week out to play outside (Ras to me is an IR waiting to happen at this point). I wish they could have gotten another fringe starting caliber CB in a down CB market to add depth but if they do that in the draft I'll be happy. Overall just as long as they address the CB depth in the draft I'm happy with this offseason.

    S's - Chung lost his starting job and I don't think WIlson will be a full time starter but I also don't think he needs to be. Having Wilson taking Chungs role should be an upgrade (provided health of course). I'm generally happy with this move provided they have confidence in T. Wilson getting a fair number of reps in coverage.

    LB - I would have liked to see them add a coverage LB and would still like that but then again I also think this is a role Wilson could fill in a 3 S nickle set or lining up Wilson in the box in a base D and subbing out Hightower or Spikes. Overall I'm pretty happy with this group.

    DE - I'm hoping they get another pass rusher and ultimately if they get a coverage LB in the draft (Collins) and move Hightower to DE or sign Abraham or if ultimately Armstead fills a larger DE role then I'm pretty happy but until the moves are made I'm watching carefully how they add to the pass rush.

    DT - I'm up in the air about this one. I thought they needed to add a much bigger presence in the interior rush and they still could in the draft. Armstead is like adding a day 2 pick so I don't know if I'd call him a steal. Lets face it, 31 other teams had since last May to sign him and passed. Now he has very high potential but I'm going to hold off on the steal comments until at least seeing him week 3 in pre-season. Kelley was a nice depth/rotational signing. I think of him as a G Warren type but question if he can make it through camp. We know BB loves disclipne and goes nuts on penalties and Kelley commits a lot of penalties. From his reported contract they can essentially dump him with little cost. If he can keep his penalties in control he could be a good bandaid for a couple years until either Armstead develops or they draft someone. I'd actually still like them to get a DT in the draft as a future Wilfork replacement. But, with Kelley they can afford to take a chance on a high upside player like J. Williams and give him a year or two to develop. Overall I like the moves as upgrades to Pyror/Deadrick/Love types but wanted to see them get a little more presence inside of course the draft is still coming.

    Overall I'm pretty happy with the direction the D is heading provided they add a couple of piece via the draft. The O on the other hand is another thing. Really it's just the WR core that I have serious question marks but there is still time to fix that. I didn't think they needed to do a lot this offseason and they added nice complimentary pieces but for me it comes down to the draft. The draft could end up making or breaking this offseason for me.

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

     

    So far I've been impressed with BB's approach to the defensive side of the ball thus far. There's plenty more to do  but I think we head into the draft being able to be more flexible than most will imagine.As with all these signings  it comes down to ..

    A. Do these vets have anything left.

    B. Will they fit our defensive schemes.

    C. Attitude (will they accept their roles).

    D. Health.

     So far defensively we've retained our best corner (Talib) Kept our 2 slot DB's (Arrington,Cole), which allow something this secondary hasn't had in a while,continuity. Upgraded the safety position by signing Wilson and LOSING Chung. Were basically handed a potential steal along the D line in Armstead, and now with the Tommy Kelly signing, replaced the dead weight of Ron Brace with a veteran who must feel like Cinque from Amistad after being freed from Oakland. This after the fact that NO ONE supposedly likes the Patriots!!!!

    We still have a draft, PLENTY of FA's still available and more to come after cutdowns!!!

    It's a marathon !!!

    If any of you who have been whining about EVERY offseason move were in charge of this team, we'd have died from exhaustion soon after the 1st mile......

    ......We're only in mile 4................

    ... See you at the finish line!!!!

     




    Great post. I have to say I've always liked your sensical posts here. Well reasoned and rational. Nice to see, since it's so rare here now.

     

    Some of the responsiblity with continuity has to go to BB with some failed developmental prospects like what he had at Safety and

    2010 and 2011 were the turning points there with Meriweather and then in 2011 with Sergio Brown, but now with Talib, the key pick of Dennerd and now adding Wilson to go with McCourty, you're talking about a base in the secondary now (McCourty, Dennerd, Talib, Arrington) that's there for the first time in a long time.  It feels like it's either been bad luck with injuries (Bodden, Dowling, etc) or just too much discombobulation.

    What's ironic is this is a VERY young D overall, at its core, but they have a wealth of experience. Another good draft and BB is laying a great foundation for years to come.

    Finally, tied to the inconsistent 3rd down D, the pass rush is being addressed even more. This Tommy Kelly move is big.  They just haven't had a guy who can rush next to Vince in the 4-3.  BB tried Francis there in camp, but I think he felt he couldn't hold up down the middle, so he kicked him back outside, likely where he should be.

    Anyway, Chandler Jones looked real good before the sprained ankle, but another young 2 way DT in t he draft would be ideal, maybe a CB to prep for Talib's possible departure after 2013, a LB to give you some leverage in a Spikes re-up, and those should be areas of the field to move on with in this draft.  Dane Fletcher returns which is a huge plus (he can cover) because he has the ability to come in and replace Spikes on 3rds. 

    The capper would be to get Abraham in here. I would not be shocked if he's waiting for after the draft to see if the (4-3) teams he wants to go to go DE before using his leverage and choosing.

    Overall, I am thrilled because he's pretty much done everything I wanted on D. Resign Talib and Arrington at good pricing, get a vet Safety (My first choice was Reed, but Wilson 2nd) and they sure did in Wilson (the best SS of the last decade in the NFC, IMO), and now this Kelly move is the guy I immediately wanted after he was cut.

    I wouldn't have minded vet fliers taken on a Pouha or a Hampton if they wanted on more run before they hang it up, but Kelly is better.

    Kudos to BB for playing the market so well while keeping the big picture in focus. He's fantastic at it.  

    I still think BB has a bomb to drop on draft weekend, but it might come on offense vs defense.

     

     

     

     



    You would think, right? I wonder how BB views Kelly. Does he think Kelly can be "the guy" next to Vince or does he see him as a rotational player? I think this could affect if he drafts any DL (particularly DT). We also have to wait and see what happens with Abraham...if he doesn't join the Pats, maybe BB looks at DE?

     

    Personally, if the following happens, I think BB drafts 2 WRs this year:

    1. We don't sign Sanders

    2. Lloyd is not resigned (even if he is, I could still see us drafting 1).

    3. We get a pick or a player at a position of need for Mallet.

    The only reason why I mention Mallet is with fewer draft picks than normal, BB might feel that 2 WRs would not help the team as much as (say) a WR and a CB or DE.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

     

    So far I've been impressed with BB's approach to the defensive side of the ball thus far. There's plenty more to do  but I think we head into the draft being able to be more flexible than most will imagine.As with all these signings  it comes down to ..

    A. Do these vets have anything left.

    B. Will they fit our defensive schemes.

    C. Attitude (will they accept their roles).

    D. Health.

     So far defensively we've retained our best corner (Talib) Kept our 2 slot DB's (Arrington,Cole), which allow something this secondary hasn't had in a while,continuity. Upgraded the safety position by signing Wilson and LOSING Chung. Were basically handed a potential steal along the D line in Armstead, and now with the Tommy Kelly signing, replaced the dead weight of Ron Brace with a veteran who must feel like Cinque from Amistad after being freed from Oakland. This after the fact that NO ONE supposedly likes the Patriots!!!!

    We still have a draft, PLENTY of FA's still available and more to come after cutdowns!!!

    It's a marathon !!!

    If any of you who have been whining about EVERY offseason move were in charge of this team, we'd have died from exhaustion soon after the 1st mile......

    ......We're only in mile 4................

    ... See you at the finish line!!!!

     




    Great post. I have to say I've always liked your sensical posts here. Well reasoned and rational. Nice to see, since it's so rare here now.

     

    Some of the responsiblity with continuity has to go to BB with some failed developmental prospects like what he had at Safety and

    2010 and 2011 were the turning points there with Meriweather and then in 2011 with Sergio Brown, but now with Talib, the key pick of Dennerd and now adding Wilson to go with McCourty, you're talking about a base in the secondary now (McCourty, Dennerd, Talib, Arrington) that's there for the first time in a long time.  It feels like it's either been bad luck with injuries (Bodden, Dowling, etc) or just too much discombobulation.

    What's ironic is this is a VERY young D overall, at its core, but they have a wealth of experience. Another good draft and BB is laying a great foundation for years to come.

    Finally, tied to the inconsistent 3rd down D, the pass rush is being addressed even more. This Tommy Kelly move is big.  They just haven't had a guy who can rush next to Vince in the 4-3.  BB tried Francis there in camp, but I think he felt he couldn't hold up down the middle, so he kicked him back outside, likely where he should be.

    Anyway, Chandler Jones looked real good before the sprained ankle, but another young 2 way DT in t he draft would be ideal, maybe a CB to prep for Talib's possible departure after 2013, a LB to give you some leverage in a Spikes re-up, and those should be areas of the field to move on with in this draft.  Dane Fletcher returns which is a huge plus (he can cover) because he has the ability to come in and replace Spikes on 3rds. 

    The capper would be to get Abraham in here. I would not be shocked if he's waiting for after the draft to see if the (4-3) teams he wants to go to go DE before using his leverage and choosing.

    Overall, I am thrilled because he's pretty much done everything I wanted on D. Resign Talib and Arrington at good pricing, get a vet Safety (My first choice was Reed, but Wilson 2nd) and they sure did in Wilson (the best SS of the last decade in the NFC, IMO), and now this Kelly move is the guy I immediately wanted after he was cut.

    I wouldn't have minded vet fliers taken on a Pouha or a Hampton if they wanted on more run before they hang it up, but Kelly is better.

    Kudos to BB for playing the market so well while keeping the big picture in focus. He's fantastic at it.  

    I still think BB has a bomb to drop on draft weekend, but it might come on offense vs defense.

     

     

     

     



    You would think, right? I wonder how BB views Kelly. Does he think Kelly can be "the guy" next to Vince or does he see him as a rotational player? I think this could affect if he drafts any DL (particularly DT). We also have to wait and see what happens with Abraham...if he doesn't join the Pats, maybe BB looks at DE?

     

    Personally, if we don't get Sanders, and if we gt a player/pick for Mallet, I think BB is going to draft 2 WRs this year. 



    Me too

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    I still say BB uses the 2014 draft and gains picks in this draft. All we really need to add is 2 picks between rounds 2 and 5 and I think Vegas will agree that once again, we will be one of the favorites to win it all.................doens't get old does it..........~FAVORITES~




    that "Favorites" thing not working out too well in recent years....

    and stop kicking pomeranian puppies!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    well, the remaking of the defense has been going on since about 2005.  It's not like the effort started last year.

    So, my question is - defensively, have the Patriots, overall, had more hits or  misses in drafting, trades, and free agency pick ups?

     

     

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    So far I've been impressed with BB's approach to the defensive side of the ball thus far. There's plenty more to do  but I think we head into the draft being able to be more flexible than most will imagine.As with all these signings  it comes down to ..

    A. Do these vets have anything left.

    B. Will they fit our defensive schemes.

    C. Attitude (will they accept their roles).

    D. Health.

     So far defensively we've retained our best corner (Talib) Kept our 2 slot DB's (Arrington,Cole), which allow something this secondary hasn't had in a while,continuity. Upgraded the safety position by signing Wilson and LOSING Chung. Were basically handed a potential steal along the D line in Armstead, and now with the Tommy Kelly signing, replaced the dead weight of Ron Brace with a veteran who must feel like Cinque from Amistad after being freed from Oakland. This after the fact that NO ONE supposedly likes the Patriots!!!!

    We still have a draft, PLENTY of FA's still available and more to come after cutdowns!!!

    It's a marathon !!!

    If any of you who have been whining about EVERY offseason move were in charge of this team, we'd have died from exhaustion soon after the 1st mile......

    ......We're only in mile 4................

    ... See you at the finish line!!!!



    That Darth Belichick pick is on point!

    Next year, when he's challenging a call, he should just whip out his red light saber (PSHHJJJJJJ... that was the sound of the light saber blade coming out) instead of the red flag.

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    I see your point, from 2001-2004, we had some horrible players, like:

    *Bobby Hamilton, 200-2003

    **Richard Seymour, 2001-2008

    *Ted Washington, 2003

    *Tebucky Jones, 1998-2002

    *Lawyer Milloy, 1996-2002

    *Ty Law, 1995-2004

    *Willie McGinnest, 1994-2005

    **Vince Wilfork, 2004-Current

    **Rodney Harrison, 2003-2008

    **Rosevelt Colvin, 2003-2008

    **Jarvis Green, 2002-2009

    **Tedy Bruschi, 1996-2008

    *Ted Johnson, 1995-2004

    *Roman Phifer, 2001-2004

    **Mike Vrabel, 2001-2008

    **Randall Gay, 2004-2007

    **Asante Samuel, 2003-2007

    **Ty Warren, 2003-2009

    **Eugene Wilson, 2003-2009

    The ones with one asterix are players who were gone by 2005.

    The ones with two asterixes were with the patriots on or before 2004.

    ***Junior Seau, 2006-2009, - really? he was good? I can run faster than him...lol.

    The  point is that the defense between 2001-2004 was pretty good. They had playmakers, arguably, much better and timely playmakers than today's defense.

    You named some players that were already on the team.  The only one you mentioned who was acquired  after 2005was seau - and, no, he was not an impact player for the Patriots.

    So, name some impact defensive players that were drafted, traded for, or acquired from free agency ON or AFTER 2005?  More hits or misses?

    Secondly, you didn't really name any players that adequaitely replaced those players with a single asterix, who were gone by 2005.  Really, randall gay and asante samuel was better than ty law or Lawyer milloy? I don't think so.

     

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    k

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    No, that's not what I said. That's what YOU try to say. Here is my original quote:

    "well, the remaking of the defense has been going on since about 2005.  It's not like the effort started last year.

    So, my question is - defensively, have the Patriots, overall, had more hits or  misses in drafting, trades, and free agency pick ups?

    "

    I was referring to the defense since 2005.  So, answer the question. After 2005, who have the Patriots drafted, traded for, or acquired thru free agency that had an impact on our defense. It's not a trick question. You just don't want to admit that the players new to the team since 2005 really didn't have an impact - resulting in today's d.

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    Actually, Harrison was acquired so was Vrabel. Are you this dumb or arrogant?  Your premise is that NE was "rebuilding" in 2005, which is clearly false and incredibly embarrassing for you as a fan. 

    Colvin and many others were also brought in.  And what's funny is they were vets in a far easier era to play defense in than this one.

    NE drafted Law and Milloy when they SUCKED.  Get it?  THis means they were in a better draft position. Milloy was replaced by the superior Harrison in FA. You seem to be struggling.

    Samuel was drafted in 2003 and supplanted Law.  Was he better than Law? No. But, what do those things have to do with your premise?

    You just caught being sneaky. That's what just happened there.

     



    gee, in my original post I specifically said drafted, traded for, or acquired in free agency. LOL. you can't just make this stuff up....Foot in Mouth

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     


    Umm, no, you said BB "was rebuilding since 2005". That's as trollish as a premise as one can find on this board.

     

    We have 2 more SBs if Brady doesn't go in arrogant or crappy.   Truth hurts. 



    LMAO. No, I'm afraid you're the liar now.

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    well, the remaking of the defense has been going on since about 2005.  It's not like the effort started last year.

    So, my question is - defensively, have the Patriots, overall, had more hits or  misses in drafting, trades, and free agency pick ups?

     

     




    Just to show that this was indeed the original quote....lol. What a loser and liar you are.

     

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