Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    If you could get a meaningful upgrade at DT and interior OL that would help our run D and pass rush and our run O and pass blocking OR a WR that would help our passing game and a vocer LB that would help of pass D which of those two pairs would you take with the current Pats roster?

     

    I think I would lean towards the DT and OL. It helps in every part of the game and also makes us a more physical team. I think good teams are built from the trenches back. The best teams dominate in the trenches on either or both sides of the ball.

    From 2007 on we have not dominated in the trenches though we have been pretty decent there. SO we get into the playiffs and even to the SB but we fall short. In part it is because we do not dominate on either side of the trenches. Noe I say IN PART...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    ballgames are won and lost at the LOS. give me a DL and OL every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    I agree with Quag..especially for a team who needs help with pass rush (like the Patriots). Also, you can never have enough good O/D-Lineman IMO.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    The more I think about it the more I want the Pats to become truly dominating on both sides of the line.

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    Though it is a fact that the LOS is the most important aspect of the game,I would take the WR and the Cover Linebacker in this years draft. BPA at either players position.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    How good is very good?

    Essentially, I would take the DT and OL. Games are won and lost in the trenches. In fact, a powerhouse DT, of Seymour-in-his-prime or Reggie White caliber, would instantly change the entire team. I'd almost take that over a WR and extra Cover LBer without the OL included. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    I would go WR and coverage LB if I had to choose between those two packages.

    Tommy Kelly is a good player and Francise/Armstead may emerge into something.  That said, I'd like a DT in the draft, obviously.

    I have to admit, this Margus Hunt character incredibly intriuguing. 6'8 and that athletic?

     



    10/4 on the W/R as anything creating reasonable  respect there helps a bunch down underneath and a coverage LB that intrigues  me more than a little  a bit is this kid Kasheem Green from Rutgers.  Playmaker.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    The more I think about it the more I want the Pats to become truly dominating on both sides of the line.

     



    yeah i had that problem (complaint) on bdc all year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    however we need a de pass rusehr or the d aint goon awin against better teams.

    truth is we need all of what you said plus an elite pass rusher.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    I'd lean toward the linemen, but that doesn't mean a very good WR is unnecessary and that a coverage LB wouldn't help.  I think if you had said the LB was an elite three-down player who could cover, rush the passer, and hold the edge against the run I may have swung toward the WR - LB combo. One thing this exercise makes you realize, though, is the quality of the player matters. If the DT were a truly disruptive interior guy, I might swing back to that group.  It's one reason you need to enter the draft with an open mind and hope to get the best talent at any one of your needed positions rather than just targeting a specific position. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    I think a coverage LB can be had in free agency for small money. Isn't that why they signed AWilson? Fletcher? With the Pats needs, drafting a sub package player in the first 3 rounds makes no sense.

    Pats always think 2-3 years ahead in the draft. Look at the age and free agency players on the DL. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think a coverage LB can be had in free agency for small money. Isn't that why they signed AWilson? Fletcher? With the Pats needs, drafting a sub package player in the first 3 rounds makes no sense.

    Pats always think 2-3 years ahead in the draft. Look at the age and free agency players on the DL. 

     

     



    If it's a guy who just plays in sub packages on passing downs I agree.  However, if the Pats were to pick up an OLB who can do everything, including cover, and who would play all three downs, that could really help them I think.  It also gives them flexibility with Spikes's contract soon to expire. 

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    The highest bust rate in the draft for first round picks is wide receivers so that scares me . . . but who the Pats have selected in the second round as wide receivers scares me even more!  I'd take Still or Swopes in the 3rd after getting a CB and DL in the first two . . . unless they are 100% sure of a wide out with the first pick who has size, speed and hands with a mind to remember where he is going on his routes . . . their other first round wide outs were Morgan, Fryer, Terry Glenn, Stingley, and Hart Lee Dykes which are a pretty good group!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    If we are talking 'good' then I go with the WR/LB combo as 'good' is an upgrade for those positions but would not be on the OL/DL (or minimal.) 

    If we are talking 'very good' then I think I go WR/LB again because the difference in performance would still be significantly better for that combo.

    If we are talking 'All Pro' then you have to go DL/OL. The long term effect of significant upgrades on the line is far greater than at the WR/LB positions. As others say, they have impact on all phases of the game.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    what do u prefer? 1000 yards 8 Tds + 120 tackles 4 FF 4 ints or 9 sacks 4 FF+ 3.50 sacks allowed and 8 penalties 16 starts?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    Are wide receivers really more likely to be first round busts than players at other positions? People say that all the time, but has anyone really looked rigourously at the data? I bet QBs give them a run for their money.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Are wide receivers really more likely to be first round busts than players at other positions? People say that all the time, but has anyone really looked rigourously at the data? I bet QBs give them a run for their money.



    Bust? Disappointment, more likely. I think the numbers of players selected is very different by position group, and the epectation of immediate return by position also vary a lot. And 1st round is a very broad brush as top 10 picks vs. last 10 picks in the first round carry grossly different expectations.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I'd lean toward the linemen, but that doesn't mean a very good WR is unnecessary and that a coverage LB wouldn't help.  I think if you had said the LB was an elite three-down player who could cover, rush the passer, and hold the edge against the run I may have swung toward the WR - LB combo. One thing this exercise makes you realize, though, is the quality of the player matters. If the DT were a truly disruptive interior guy, I might swing back to that group.  It's one reason you need to enter the draft with an open mind and hope to get the best talent at any one of your needed positions rather than just targeting a specific position. 




    Just so!

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think a coverage LB can be had in free agency for small money. Isn't that why they signed AWilson? Fletcher? With the Pats needs, drafting a sub package player in the first 3 rounds makes no sense.

    Pats always think 2-3 years ahead in the draft. Look at the age and free agency players on the DL. 

     

     



    If it's a guy who just plays in sub packages on passing downs I agree.  However, if the Pats were to pick up an OLB who can do everything, including cover, and who would play all three downs, that could really help them I think.  It also gives them flexibility with Spikes's contract soon to expire. 

     



    Spikes plays ILB. I can't see the Pats using a high draft choice on a player who won't play over Mayo or Hightower other than on passing downs. 

    Again, isn't that what the board said Wilson was signed for? 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think a coverage LB can be had in free agency for small money. Isn't that why they signed AWilson? Fletcher? With the Pats needs, drafting a sub package player in the first 3 rounds makes no sense.

    Pats always think 2-3 years ahead in the draft. Look at the age and free agency players on the DL. 

     

     



    If it's a guy who just plays in sub packages on passing downs I agree.  However, if the Pats were to pick up an OLB who can do everything, including cover, and who would play all three downs, that could really help them I think.  It also gives them flexibility with Spikes's contract soon to expire. 

     

     



    Spikes plays ILB. I can't see the Pats using a high draft choice on a player who won't play over Mayo or Hightower other than on passing downs. 

     

    Again, isn't that what the board said Wilson was signed for? 



    Yes, but Hightower and Mayo both are probably more ILBs than OLBs too.  Drafting a true OLB might make Spikes expendable (trade bait).   If you were to draft a three-down OLB, you could easily move either Mayo or Hightower back to the middle if you were staying with a 4-3 front and have the drafted guy and Hightower or Mayo as your OLBs.  With the right personnel, you also have the possibility of a 3-4, with Hightower and the drafted guy as OLBs and Mayo and Spikes as ILBs. 

    I agree that a sub package guy is not someone I'd expect the Pats to target with a high pick now, but if he were a three-down LB, there's the opportunity to do something different with the starting front seven and that might be attractive. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to mia76's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Are wide receivers really more likely to be first round busts than players at other positions? People say that all the time, but has anyone really looked rigourously at the data? I bet QBs give them a run for their money.

     



    Bust? Disappointment, more likely. I think the numbers of players selected is very different by position group, and the epectation of immediate return by position also vary a lot. And 1st round is a very broad brush as top 10 picks vs. last 10 picks in the first round carry grossly different expectations.

     



    I agree . . . this is one reason a consistent winner like the Pats is always at a great disadvantage in building talent through the draft.  The first round picks they end up with are far different from those the less successful teams end up with . . . it's almost as if the winning teams were drafting in a different (and lower) round. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    I'd take the very good defensive tackle everytime...they make everyone around them better. Problem is those guys are few and far between.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Given a choice of (a) very good DT & OL or (b) very good WR & cover LB...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think a coverage LB can be had in free agency for small money. Isn't that why they signed AWilson? Fletcher? With the Pats needs, drafting a sub package player in the first 3 rounds makes no sense.

    Pats always think 2-3 years ahead in the draft. Look at the age and free agency players on the DL. 

     

     



    If it's a guy who just plays in sub packages on passing downs I agree.  However, if the Pats were to pick up an OLB who can do everything, including cover, and who would play all three downs, that could really help them I think.  It also gives them flexibility with Spikes's contract soon to expire. 

     

     



    Spikes plays ILB. I can't see the Pats using a high draft choice on a player who won't play over Mayo or Hightower other than on passing downs. 

     

    Again, isn't that what the board said Wilson was signed for? 

     



    Yes, but Hightower and Mayo both are probably more ILBs than OLBs too.  Drafting a true OLB might make Spikes expendable (trade bait).   If you were to draft a three-down OLB, you could easily move either Mayo or Hightower back to the middle if you were staying with a 4-3 front and have the drafted guy and Hightower or Mayo as your OLBs.  With the right personnel, you also have the possibility of a 3-4, with Hightower and the drafted guy as OLBs and Mayo and Spikes as ILBs. 

     

    I agree that a sub package guy is not someone I'd expect the Pats to target with a high pick now, but if he were a three-down LB, there's the opportunity to do something different with the starting front seven and that might be attractive. 

     



    I like the perspective....

     

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