Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/11/notebook_ed_reed_opts_for_rex_ryan_jets

    Not that Reed was in extreme demand or that he is an athlete at the top of his game, I think he would have brought some good experience with him to the defensive backs.  Obviously, more goes into looking at available players (i.e., do they fit into BB's "system") - but, I'm wonding if the Patriots have lost some of the attraction for seasoned players.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to anonymis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/11/notebook_ed_reed_opts_for_rex_ryan_jets

    Not that Reed was in extreme demand or that he is an athlete at the top of his game, I think he would have brought some good experience with him to the defensive backs.  Obviously, more goes into looking at available players (i.e., do they fit into BB's "system") - but, I'm wonding if the Patriots have lost some of the attraction for seasoned players.  

    [/QUOTE]

    They are planning for next years roster while being very, very tight against the cap. Additionally, they have struck out with so many attempts with vets, time to alter the philosophy. It wasn't so long ago that the drafted rookies simply could not make the team. Now every rookie is on the team and also 2-4 UDFA are as well. 

    Would it surprise anyone if next year Soap, Kelly and Gregory are all not on the team due to salary? 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They are planning for next years roster while being very, very tight against the cap. Additionally, they have struck out with so many attempts with vets, time to alter the philosophy. It wasn't so long ago that the drafted rookies simply could not make the team. Now every rookie is on the team and also 2-4 UDFA are as well. 

    Would it surprise anyone if next year Soap, Kelly and Gregory are all not on the team due to salary? 

    [/QUOTE]

    It wouldn't surprise me at all because it's Belichick, and nothing should surprise anybody with him. Beyond that, Soap and Gregory are nothing special frankly. Useful at the right number, but replaceable. If their salaries are too high and can't be renegotiated, they'll be out. No big loss.

    As for Kelly, I hope he's back he's a good player. But he's an old DL coming off a knee injury. That's not a great combo. It's the same with VW. Can't deny Father Time. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    We need to bolster the D cause one day Brady will be gone and its back to 2001 type football. I hope BB drafts all linemen, either side with our first 4 picks. Get the rest in FA, UDFA's 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They are planning for next years roster while being very, very tight against the cap. Additionally, they have struck out with so many attempts with vets, time to alter the philosophy. It wasn't so long ago that the drafted rookies simply could not make the team. Now every rookie is on the team and also 2-4 UDFA are as well. 

    Would it surprise anyone if next year Soap, Kelly and Gregory are all not on the team due to salary? 

    [/QUOTE]

    It wouldn't surprise me at all because it's Belichick, and nothing should surprise anybody with him. Beyond that, Soap and Gregory are nothing special frankly. Useful at the right number, but replaceable. If their salaries are too high and can't be renegotiated, they'll be out. No big loss.

    As for Kelly, I hope he's back he's a good player. But he's an old DL coming off a knee injury. That's not a great combo. It's the same with VW. Can't deny Father Time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree Muzzy, it would be no surprise. But 5-10 years ago this roster would be littered with experienced vets rather than rookies and UDFA's. 

    I am not commenting on which scenario is better, just commenting that it is different

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-bilbo. Show Pats-bilbo's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    I think Reed signed with Jets for three reasons

    1. More playing time. Maybe even next year or two.

    2. He is familiar with Ryan and his D, so less to learn

    3. He will play as he did in Baltimore and not be chastised for freelancing

    in short it was a better fit for him.

    i don't think that this is a case where the Pats were out bid or anything more than his style is better suited for Ryan than it is for BB

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    Lets see Ocho, Fat Albert, Fanene, A.Wilson, Collie, Jenkins, etc. After seeing what they brought to the table, who can argue with the youth movement?

    I think the key here is when BB was bringing in all those vets, they had experience with him. I.E. Otis Smith, Roman Phifer, Brian Cox. Willie Mac, Tedy and all those were holdovers he worked with earlier in his career. Now he is bringing in guys that dont know the system and taking a gamble and mostly they have been DUDS so he really had no choice but to give the young guys a chance. Tank Williams, Page, J.Sanders, Meri. they all fell out of favor in ONE offseason and BB drafted a S the next 2 years and signed gregory who has been  mixed bag but just a jag really. This year he was playing well cuz they did a good job of not putting him in bad situations. Kudos to BB for recognizing gregory cant cover and not having him in that position much this year. I think McCourty and Harmon are the future back there

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In this day and age of the NFL, your "seasoned" vets want to get paid big time!  Each NFL team has only so much money to go around and you see that in the movement of veteran players each off season.  The days of a player staying with one team 10 + years is a rarity.

    To fill a gap, to throw millions at a seasoned vet for maybe one or two season may not be as effective as throwing money at a young players who can be around for 4 - 5 years. Granted, you can get lucky, but, it seems the Pats got burned more than lucky.

    Also, a seasoned vet like Ed Reed may not be able to give a full game's contribution BB may like.  Paying a player millions to be a situational player may not be his style.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    I think Belichick probably knows that Tom's time is short, and he's trying to build up the defense to prepare for the next QB. It's pretty obvious that, unless you have Andrew Luck, you need an elite defense to go with a young QB if they're going to win. It certainly helps the transition. Look at Geno Smith. He's no great shakes, but the defense holds it together and they're 5-4.

    I think the Patriots draft a DT next year to be Vince's replacement, and in the 2015 draft, they'll :( draft Brady's replacement so that he has a couple years to be tutored (worked out well for Rodgers). Mallett isn't going to sit around and be a backup QB for 7 years waiting for his chance. Just gotta hope the Pats have a Steve Young waiting in the wings when the time comes.

    While part of me wishes Reed signed here, I'm definitely OK with the Pats committing to their young guys, particularly Harmon. It's a good opportunity to see what the young bucks have.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from xxxcrwn. Show xxxcrwn's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    Reed admitted that he may not have picked up the Patriots playbook very easily this late in to the season. The Jets were an easy pick because he's more familiar with that system.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    I don't think I remember anyone saying BB made an offer, could be wrong though. I've been away from the sports week since the Pats went on their BYE.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    Yes - for veterans who can't run and already have a ring and don't want to put in the work. Yes. The Pats are no longer appealing for such front runners.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes - for veterans who can't run and already have a ring and don't want to put in the work. Yes. The Pats are no longer appealing for such front runners.

    [/QUOTE]

    -7,412

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportswizard1. Show Sportswizard1's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    Reed is on his last legs and would have set the secondary back in growth. Harmon, McCourty, Dennard and Talib w/ Arrington working the nickel. Ryan as the Dime. Gregory might be back for one more year. Pretty solid group.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    There are pretty good odds that you get cut before your multi-year deal is done in New England.  You may even get cut before your one year deal is done.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think I remember anyone saying BB made an offer, could be wrong though. I've been away from the sports week since the Pats went on their BYE.

    [/QUOTE]

    good call. He apparently didn't.  It still begs the question tho.  At one time, I think many solid players from other teams would have wanted to play for the Patriots to play for BB and because they were winning some SBs.  But that hasn't happened since 2004 (yes, i know they've played in 2 SB since).

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are pretty good odds that you get cut before your multi-year deal is done in New England.  You may even get cut before your one year deal is done.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiosity what is the percentage of players being cut before their deal is done? How does it compare to other teams? Who are the players getting cut? Seems like a pretty broad statement without actual data.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from m. a. pat. Show m. a. pat's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to anonymis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/11/notebook_ed_reed_opts_for_rex_ryan_jets

    Not that Reed was in extreme demand or that he is an athlete at the top of his game, I think he would have brought some good experience with him to the defensive backs.  Obviously, more goes into looking at available players (i.e., do they fit into BB's "system") - but, I'm wonding if the Patriots have lost some of the attraction for seasoned players.  

    [/QUOTE]

    They are planning for next years roster while being very, very tight against the cap. Additionally, they have struck out with so many attempts with vets, time to alter the philosophy. It wasn't so long ago that the drafted rookies simply could not make the team. Now every rookie is on the team and also 2-4 UDFA are as well. 

    Would it surprise anyone if next year Soap, Kelly and Gregory are all not on the team due to salary? 

    [/QUOTE]


    Kinda ironic that the Pats are in this situation. I've seen numerous posts about other teams poor cap planning, cap hell, etc.

    Could Wilfork either be forced to restucture his contract for next year or be released? He looked like he was playing at about 350 to 375 lbs. this year. Depending on the nature of his achilles tear, it could be tough for such a big man to return to 100 %.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are pretty good odds that you get cut before your multi-year deal is done in New England.  You may even get cut before your one year deal is done.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiosity what is the percentage of players being cut before their deal is done? How does it compare to other teams? Who are the players getting cut? Seems like a pretty broad statement without actual data.

    [/QUOTE]

    There may be some truth to this for those aquisitions that had more than a 1 year deal.  Haynesworth and ochocinco come to mind.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to anonymis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are pretty good odds that you get cut before your multi-year deal is done in New England.  You may even get cut before your one year deal is done.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiosity what is the percentage of players being cut before their deal is done? How does it compare to other teams? Who are the players getting cut? Seems like a pretty broad statement without actual data.

    [/QUOTE]

    There may be some truth to this for those aquisitions that had more than a 1 year deal.  Haynesworth and ochocinco come to mind.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm just curious what the % is. I could say that many multi year contracts get played out but it is just a broad brush statement without any data to prove or disprove the statement.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    Yes, NFL veterans don't want to go to a loser team like the Patriots who haven't won a super bowl the last 8 seasons. They are flocking to winning teams like the Steelers and Giants who have won multiple super bowls the last 8 seasons.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    He wasn't really a fit in New England. He screamed Jets the minutes he was released. The Pats thing is a bit spun up by the Jets to get their fans back after a terrible offseason and now a suprisingly decent season to this point.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to anonymis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/11/notebook_ed_reed_opts_for_rex_ryan_jets

    Not that Reed was in extreme demand or that he is an athlete at the top of his game, I think he would have brought some good experience with him to the defensive backs.  Obviously, more goes into looking at available players (i.e., do they fit into BB's "system") - but, I'm wonding if the Patriots have lost some of the attraction for seasoned players.  

    [/QUOTE]

    They are planning for next years roster while being very, very tight against the cap. Additionally, they have struck out with so many attempts with vets, time to alter the philosophy. It wasn't so long ago that the drafted rookies simply could not make the team. Now every rookie is on the team and also 2-4 UDFA are as well. 

    Would it surprise anyone if next year Soap, Kelly and Gregory are all not on the team due to salary? 

    [/QUOTE]

    They would be cut because Belichek cuts vets with out much of a fuss. Who says the Pats are in cap hell? According to some sources they left like 10 million out there this year. It is just because of Hernendez money?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Have Patriots Lost Luster for Veterans?

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In this day and age of the NFL, your "seasoned" vets want to get paid big time!  Each NFL team has only so much money to go around and you see that in the movement of veteran players each off season.  The days of a player staying with one team 10 + years is a rarity.

    To fill a gap, to throw millions at a seasoned vet for maybe one or two season may not be as effective as throwing money at a young players who can be around for 4 - 5 years. Granted, you can get lucky, but, it seems the Pats got burned more than lucky.

    Also, a seasoned vet like Ed Reed may not be able to give a full game's contribution BB may like.  Paying a player millions to be a situational player may not be his style.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would say that is a factor.  Money is an incentive to go elsewhere, especially if they've perhaps already won a SB ring. 

     

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