Here comes Payton....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    Manning was something like 29/36 last week passing.  But when you look at the breakdown, only a few of those plays went for more than 15 yards.  Deep ball wasn't even a concern; was barely used.

    It's going to be a ton of passing over the middle (his highest % last game), in the flats (2nd highest % last game), and an occasionaly deep try.  Pats handle the run defense and they win this game.

    It's not the same Manning, but it's also not the same Denver defense.  They're much improved.

    Pats win this one, though. 41-24.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    Stop the run and provide pressure with the front seven and watch the happy feet and ball tapping start right into two picks. He also has Fox now who's willing to take some chances.

    On O run up the middle all day and take Dummervil and Von Miller out of the game!

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    All Manning has to do is be his old self to get the win. 

    The question is, is he his old self or is he something less.  Certainly he claims he is not 100%. 

    Football outsiders had some good analysis suggesting that the problems Fitzpatrick had last week in identifying coverages quickly should not be Manning's problem this week.  That doesn't guarantee a win, but Manning knows Belichick as well as any QB in the league. 

    I predict the result of a late 4th and 2 play will determine the outcome of the game. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All Manning has to do is be his old self to get the win.

    [/QUOTE]

    Manning has a career 2-8 record in Foxborough.  The Pats dropped 40+ points on Denver in both of their meetings last year.  Put down the Manning Kool Aid.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    Hey UD6 if you change you name to UD7 you'll have the amount of points Manning and the Broncos will score this week in you name!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All Manning has to do is be his old self to get the win.

    [/QUOTE]

    Manning has a career 2-8 record in Foxborough.  The Pats dropped 40+ points on Denver in both of their meetings last year.  Put down the Manning Kool Aid.

    [/QUOTE]
    Yes I am sure all of those pre 2007 losses will have much to do with Manning's performance Sunday.  His last loss was in 2010 when he was playing with a makeshift team and offensive while nursing the injury that kept him out of the 2011 season.  And even with that team, he gave the pats a scare most of you remember. 

    Again I said old self.  Even Manning admits he's not 100%.  Is he close enough to that number to be effective is the question. 

    Manning's got a better defense on the other side.  You may or may not recall the ineffective d tackles of the colts and playing their 4th string strong safety along with two back up LB's. 

    Anyway, I'm not predicting a victory.  I really don't know how strong Manning is yet. 

    But, as they say, that's why they play the game. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to Tomhab's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey UD6 if you change you name to UD7 you'll have the amount of points Manning and the Broncos will score this week in you name!

    [/QUOTE]

    Could be right hab, and as long as the pats score less, that'd be ok by me.  Your kicker's got a bit of vanderjagt syndrome right now.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes I am sure all of those pre 2007 losses will have much to do with Manning's performance Sunday.  His last loss was in 2010 when he was playing with a makeshift team and offensive while nursing the injury that kept him out of the 2011 season.  And even with that team, he gave the pats a scare most of you remember. 

    Again I said old self.  Even Manning admits he's not 100%.  Is he close enough to that number to be effective is the question. 

    Manning's got a better defense on the other side.  You may or may not recall the ineffective d tackles of the colts and playing their 4th string strong safety along with two back up LB's. 

    Anyway, I'm not predicting a victory.  I really don't know how strong Manning is yet. 

    But, as they say, that's why they play the game. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The point of bringing up his record in Foxborough is precisely that Manning "playing like his old self" in the past was not sufficient for him to win.   Why would that be different now?  I was not implying that it somehow will influence his actual performance on Sunday.  That is simply a straw man.  As I noted previously New England dropped 40+ points on the Broncos in both matchups last season.  If they do that again it won't matter how Manning plays.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Tomhab's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey UD6 if you change you name to UD7 you'll have the amount of points Manning and the Broncos will score this week in you name!

    [/QUOTE]

    Could be right hab, and as long as the pats score less, that'd be ok by me.  Your kicker's got a bit of vanderjagt syndrome right now.

    [/QUOTE]

    So UD have you given up on the Colts and moved on to the Broncos?  I don't think too many Pats fans would be on the Dolts board selling Brady if he were a Raider or Chief

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes I am sure all of those pre 2007 losses will have much to do with Manning's performance Sunday.  His last loss was in 2010 when he was playing with a makeshift team and offensive while nursing the injury that kept him out of the 2011 season.  And even with that team, he gave the pats a scare most of you remember. 

    Again I said old self.  Even Manning admits he's not 100%.  Is he close enough to that number to be effective is the question. 

    Manning's got a better defense on the other side.  You may or may not recall the ineffective d tackles of the colts and playing their 4th string strong safety along with two back up LB's. 

    Anyway, I'm not predicting a victory.  I really don't know how strong Manning is yet. 

    But, as they say, that's why they play the game. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The point of bringing up his record in Foxborough is precisely that Manning "playing like his old self" in the past was not sufficient for him to win.   Why would that be different now?  I was not implying that it somehow will influence his actual performance on Sunday.  That is simply a straw man.  As I noted previously New England dropped 40+ points on the Broncos in both matchups last season.  If they do that again it won't matter how Manning plays.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually playing like his old self actually has been fairly sufficient most recently with the exception of his and the colts substantially injuries in 2010 season.  Admittedly, I should have said pre-2005, because Manning won there in the 05 and 06 seasons and then lost in 10.  That's 2 of the last 3 in foxborough.  And as I said, Manning knows Belichick as well as anyone.  He also beat the pats in 09, 08, and the 06 playoffs.  Heck that's 5 of the last 7 times. 

    We'll find out if the venue matters. 

    As for the games against Denver, you didn't say it but make the assumption that you assume Manning really is no different than Tebow, since the argument you make is that last year's scores somehow may affect this year's outcome. 

    I'll say that offensive ineptitude can really hurt a defense's performance.  the pats may have dropped 40 on Denver twice last year, but with Tebow under center can you honestly say you were surprised?  Tebow and his teammates lost 4 fumbles resulting in 24 points for the pats over those games.  I can guarantee you that you will not see the same brand of offensive football from Denver on Sunday, and Manning's brand of football will be much more likely to expose the weaknesses of the pats defense that Tebow does not possess the talent to.   

    Anyway, I am not predicting a win for Denver.  They shouldn't win (but they can).  You keep looking for logical fallacies, but I'd give up on the argument that the somehow the Sunday's outcome could be the same as last year because of last year's outcomes. 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    Well Tom,

    Seeing as I've come to this board for years, there's no reason to stop just because Manning is playing elsewhere. 

    I am and always will be a colts fan.  Just because Manning isn't a colt doesn't mean that I cannot root for him, especially against the pats. 

    And if one of your fellow pats fans frequented a colts board (and yes they do) and Brady ended up on the Raiders, yes, I would expect that pats fan to offer up his thoughts on Brady's Raiders vs. the colts.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As for the games against Denver, you didn't say it but make the assumption that you assume Manning really is no different than Tebow, since the argument you make is that last year's scores somehow may affect this year's outcome. 

    I'll say that offensive ineptitude can really hurt a defense's performance.  the pats may have dropped 40 on Denver twice last year, but with Tebow under center can you honestly say you were surprised?  Tebow and his teammates lost 4 fumbles resulting in 24 points for the pats over those games.  I can guarantee you that you will not see the same brand of offensive football from Denver on Sunday, and Manning's brand of football will be much more likely to expose the weaknesses of the pats defense that Tebow does not possess the talent to.   

    [/QUOTE]

    New England dropped 35 on Denver in the first half of their most recent matchup and New England actually turned it over more than Denver in that game.  Look I'm not saying that Manning and Tebow are equals or that having Tebow as your QB doesn't make it hard on your defense, but you cannot blame 35 first half points on Tebow.  You just can't.  New England absolutely demolished Denver's D in that game.  I am by no means guaranteeing that will happen again, but if they play like that again I really don't think it will matter very much how Manning plays.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    The old grey potato head ain't what he used to be, many long years ago.  He's still ok but he's not great anymore, can't throw as hard anymore, can't make decisions as well anymore.  Denver's president John Elway thought he was buying the Manning of old, but he got sold a famous knockoff. 

    Denver is playing like a 9-7 team and New England is playing like a 14-2 team.  Denver beat Oakland in Denver with no problem, but Miami also beat Oakland with no problem.

    I'm also concerned that Denver's previous head coach is now the Patriots' offensive coordinator.  Also, Bill Belichick is quite familiar with Denver, having played Denver both last December and last January.  Denver lost those two games 23-41 and 10-45.  Finally, the entire Patriots' defensive line was regularly abusing Denver's starting center Dan Koppen in August before he was cut for being permanently less effective than JAGs. 

    "Against the Raiders, the majority of Manning's passes flew barely 5 yards in the air, according to ESPN's Stats & Information. But the catch-and-runs were big." - Tedy Bruschi, ESPN

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradysgirlforreal. Show Bradysgirlforreal's posts

    Re: Here comes Payton....

    This will be a good barometer for our passing D--- and anyone that is not nervous about Our Passing "D" going up against Manning is lying to himself---Fitzpatrick missed some wide open receivers last week -- PM will not-- looking for the W -  but this game will be closer than most expect!    Give the guy his due----He will be a first time ballot Hall of Famer!!!!!!

     

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