How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    So, in the long term - what do the Patriots have to do on both sides of the ball when facing a team that has a great pass rush against us?

    Anyone got any X's and O's kind of a breakdown?

    I can see us doing well this season, only to lose in the playoffs vs. a team that can get to Brady.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Bubba- For some reason with all the talent we have on offense we haven't figured out how to execute a screen pass. This has been the case for at least the last 3 years. I don't get it but we can't and that is a major weapon in counteracting over aggressive defenses. The book is out on the Patriots offense. Much like the Jets you just send as many people as you possibly can and we will be destroyed. We need to be able to run Screens and misdirection plays effectively as well as the quick hitting slants and that doesn't seem to be in our Football DNA at this point. The good news is that the season hasn't started yet.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Not sure, but ever since the Super Bowl against the Giants, the Pats have struggled mightily with teams with good interior pass rushers.  I guess the problem could be talent at the center and guard position, but I suspect some of it is scheme.  We run an awful lot of spread formations on offense, and these seem particularly vulnerable to the interior pass rush.  I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions on what's wrong--but if I were going to look at film, I think I'd start by watching what's happening in the middle of the line. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Screens, play action and run game which will tire out at least the d-line..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]Screens, play action and run game which will tire out at least the d-line..
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    I think you're right Kansas.  I think our spread offense makes the game too easy for the D line. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZigZig. Show ZigZig's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Offenive line=STINKS Period!!!!!They have STUNK EVER SINCE THE 2007 SB...
    Wr=every singled one STINKS period!!!!! Terriable #1wr, Terriable #2wr, except 4 Welker------------

    />Triple teamed on every god damm play or gets killed when he catches the ball(wont last long)
    0 Pass Rush, no playmakers 2 get 2 the QB
    Kraft=Very Cheap now, doesen't want 2 pay 4 high impact Wr's or high impact passrushers anymore ever again because he doesent care now that he has 3 rings and tom Brady there to continue sell outs 4 him at the stadium
    Belicheck=Out coached the past 4 years when it counts!!!!! NOT THE SAME COACH ANYMORE
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Block them.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    no blocking gameplan for this game, weakness at the C position, koppen is just too small/old to take out the big nose tackles. we need a player of mangold's caliber, perhaps brewster in next years draft.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Michael02127. Show Michael02127's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]Screens, play action and run game which will tire out at least the d-line..
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, Brady's play action is excellent the problem is teams are being coached to pass rush and not worry about the run, our execution of screen plays needs work.

    The run game to me is 2 part,

    There needs to be a play calling commitment to the run game. 

    Also neither BJGE or Woodhead are take it to the house running backs.  I hope Ridley and Vereen can change that.  . 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brazilnut. Show brazilnut's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

     
          Better run game, screens and draw plays.  I think we are too predictable on a lot of plays.  Play action only works good if opponents respect the run game.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Start by hiring a real Offensive Coordinator.  One who understands you beat a monster pass rush with a quick release passing game.  One who understand in such games you utilize your TE's up the wozzoo.  Gronk had one ball thrown to him that was a huge gainer (then it got called back on a horrendous call).  Hernandez/YAC MAN had 2 great YAC catches and a nice come back grab on a Brady duck.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]no blocking gameplan for this game, weakness at the C position, koppen is just too small/old to take out the big nose tackles. we need a player of mangold's caliber, perhaps brewster in next years draft.
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]

    Bill has never brought in competition for Koppen which makes me think he grades high.  I've scratched my head on this since the Giants SB loss but Koppen wasn't the only guy having a hard time that day.  He had a better than solid season last year.  At this time I think criticism of Koppen is over done.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]So, in the long term - what do the Patriots have to do on both sides of the ball when facing a team that has a great pass rush against us? Anyone got any X's and O's kind of a breakdown? I can see us doing well this season, only to lose in the playoffs vs. a team that can get to Brady.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    Get Marcus Cannon Healthy put him at right Guard Connolly sucks
    Use Solder as a flex Tackle TE with Yeatman
    Try like hell to PUP Smith
    We'll be fine
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    It's hard to commit to running it when they can't run block worth **** either.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Tcal brings up another good point. use the tight ends
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]Not sure, but ever since the Super Bowl against the Giants, the Pats have struggled mightily with teams with good interior pass rushers.  I guess the problem could be talent at the center and guard position, but I suspect some of it is scheme.  We run an awful lot of spread formations on offense, and these seem particularly vulnerable to the interior pass rush.  I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions on what's wrong--but if I were going to look at film, I think I'd start by watching what's happening in the middle of the line. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    I can't see the Pat's OL facing beasts like Suh and Williams every game that have tremendous push to pressure TB. Pats have too many     weapons/formations for them not to succeed in the passing game. I'll try to generate a spread sheet (no pun intended) to demonstrate how vulnerable opposing Ds can and will be against NE's vaunted offensive schemes. 
    I know from my own personal observations that quick middle to speed outside DLs bring way too much pressure on TB, even though he admits to ramping up the speed of his offense to offset that rush. Hate to say that Phat Rex borrowed a page from Mangini in last year's playoff that was rudimentarily simple yet effective. If TB doesn't recognize the defensive alignment, which they masqueraded quite well simply buy wandering about almost aimlessly until 3 to 4 seconds remained on the play clock. This gave TB less time to cerebrally digest the D scheme and know his progressions. If he has time, he will make you pay. Last night's game looked like men vs. boys at time with the strength of that front four from D-town.  
    I also think that BB took the bullet for his team's lackluster performance. He coaches great and they need to execute his game plan. He not the one out there blocking, tackling, throwing, receiving etc.,etc.,..... It's going to be a rough week for the boys.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Against the bump and run CB's and a great pass run you need receivers who can get off the line . . . where was Branch in the playoffs and last nights game?  We also miss Kevin for his blocking in the backfield!
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]Start by hiring a real Offensive Coordinator.  One who understands you beat a monster pass rush with a quick release passing game.  One who understand in such games you utilize your TE's up the wozzoo.  Gronk had one ball thrown to him that was a huge gainer (then it got called back on a horrendous call).  Hernandez/YAC MAN had 2 great YAC catches and a nice come back grab on a Brady duck.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]
    I don't know whether you can find a quicker release QB. RBs are too small for protection. I agree that screens only seemed to work with TEs last night. You can't sell screens when the opposition is anticipating pass. Need to develop a respectable run game which opens up the pass game and conversely opens up draws, sprint draws, delayed draws with counters and misdirections. Sounds too simple, but BB will make the needed adjustments to counter the speed or/and speed rushes. This is too good a team to look so high schoolish and even arguing amongst one another. Not the Patriot way. Much has to be addressed before the regular season. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BS10FAN. Show BS10FAN's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush? : I think you're right Kansas.  I think our spread offense makes the game too easy for the D line. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I agree whenever you go to a spread offense with an empty set you are giving up blockers..there is no reason why the Patriots cannot be a run first team..they have the backs, the line and tight ends..yes I agree the book is out on the Offense..guess what everyone knows when the bubble screen is coming
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sam0377. Show sam0377's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    They were missing basic elements like finishing up the blocks. I agree with Tcal re playcalling which should improve and i think it will. But come one you got to win the one on ones. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    My $.02 is we are too much a scheme/system team with too little reliance on athletes performing outside the scheme/system.  And it might be that our players lack top end athleticism, because our scheme/system demands so much from them mentally, they can't match-up against highly athletic opponents one-on-one. If an opponent can thwart the Pats primary scheme/system - the short to intermediate passing game - we've had no other solid weapon.  So, jam the Pats WRs (take your chances that the zebras will not call too many penalities). Don't worry about getting burned deep - Pats lack deep threat. RBs - nobody who can make an opponent pay a steep price for selling-out with a pass rush.  Strange inability or unwillingness to consistently target TEs - a strength of this team.  Immobile QB. Turn the dogs loose.

    A fix?

    Commit to use Vereen or Ridley

    Price replaces Branch. Bigger, stronger, faster.  Deep threat.  Safety help required to cover him?

    Keep both Gronk and Hernandez on the field at the same time.

    Run or pass without changing personnel on any play.























     
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    3 things:

    (1) More screens for the RB and WR.   As Bedard pointed out in today's column, this used to be a staple of the early Brady years.  Hernandez caught one in the 1st half that was blown up by poor blocking.

    (2) Draws (Faulk was great at this in years past)

    (3) An edge runner that can take it all the way.  BJGE is not that guy.  Hopefully Vereen will be healthy and provide this threat.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    Reality is they are going to face teams with good defenses who are tough to score against.  If the plan is that they "need" to score 40 points to win, than they will lose.

    This defense needs to come through in tough games.  The Pats didn't all of a sudden have to face tough defenses that pressure Brady the last few years. 

    The Offense of the SB years didn't consistently drive the ball 80 yards to score, they took advantage of short fields and were opportunistic.  The O started on the 20 every time at Detroit.  The D needs to get some 3 and outs and get the offense to start at midfield after a punt, or get some turnovers.

    It was a team failure, this team needs to learn how to win a 14 to 17 game, not just 30 to 40 games because no offense can do that every game.  I've watched The O bail out crap D the last few years, It's time to see this D help out when the offense is struggling.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: How Do Patriots Beat Teams With Great Pass Rush?:
    [QUOTE]Bubba- For some reason with all the talent we have on offense we haven't figured out how to execute a screen pass. This has been the case for at least the last 3 years. I don't get it but we can't and that is a major weapon in counteracting over aggressive defenses. The book is out on the Patriots offense. Much like the Jets you just send as many people as you possibly can and we will be destroyed. We need to be able to run Screens and misdirection plays effectively as well as the quick hitting slants and that doesn't seem to be in our Football DNA at this point. The good news is that the season hasn't started yet.
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    So true. We've gone away from the screen and play action both of which are a time tested way to slow a charging defense. The coaching staff needs to forget the Brady/Moss style of play and get back to basics.
     

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