How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    What do fans think?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    I think the O is much more diverse and balanced which should help come Dec and Jan though a little less explosive but, I do like the 07's D better. This D has the potential to be better at the end of the year compared to the 07 teams D but they need to find a groove and ride it. I think the biggest challenge is that they are allowed to be aggressive early in the game but they are forced into a very passive D come the 4th which imo kills them. BB is so afraid to give up a big play he goes into a prevent whenever he has a two score lead and I think that's one of their biggest problems with this D as opposed to the 07 D where they were attacking most of the time. IMO once he gains more confidence in some of the younger players in the front 7 and if the secondary can improve throughout the year he'll let them loose instead of trying to turtle late in the game

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    One key difference is that this (2012) is a MUCH younger team. And it does not have the proven, clutch, playmakers of the 07 team such as Harrison, Bruschi, McGinest, Seau, Vrabel, Samuel, Moss (yes even him). On the otherhand there are a handful of guys who are possibly in the process of becoming big time playmakers (Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Jones, even Nink and maybe even McCourty with his pics, Lloyd, Gronk, Hern).

    2012 team has a much more balanced offense. THis should make the passing game MORE effective (efficient) in the fourth quarter if the D plays it straight or make the running game able to dominate if the D is in nickle.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    Well, for starters, this team is currently 3-2; the 2007 team went 16-0.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well, for starters, this team is currently 3-2; the 2007 team went 16-0.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    And then lost the SB. That is what they are there for isn't it? The 2007 team was one demensional. This offense is much more versatile and thus harder for DCs to plan for and defenses to stop.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well, for starters, this team is currently 3-2; the 2007 team went 16-0.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    If we were on a weaker team that didn't make the playoffs every year that would matter but for the Pats it's not about the regular season record it's what you do after the regular season is over. As far as that's concerned I think this team could be better more well rounded like the 04' team to make a run at a SB then the 07' team was. Besidees those two loses this year came down to the last play of the game in both cases. It's not like they were blown out

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    Jury is till out on pass rush. When Hightower returns on LB curious to see how that'll affect front 4/7 do .

    2007 D pass rush was better than the current at the moment.

    Isn't that what loss the Pats the SB in 07 ?  or the holding ?

    At least in 2012 the pass rush isn't getting any respect and being held.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    As Bill Parcells used to say, you are what you are and that's 3-2. Lots of reason for optimism I think, but it's just five weeks into the season and we haven't clinched a playoff berth yet, never mind won a Lombardi. We beat two bad teams, went one and one against medium teams, and lost to a good team. Let's not get carried away in week five.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As Bill Parcells used to say, you are what you are and that's 3-2. Lots of reason for optimism I think, but it's just five weeks into the season and we haven't clinched a playoff berth yet, never mind won a Lombardi. We beat two bad teams, went one and one against medium teams, and lost to a good team. Let's not get carried away in week five.

    [/QUOTE]


    Parcells might say that but it's not true and I can give you 2 perfect examples of why it isn't:


    Carroll - Always started off the year strong in NE. Actually in 3 years his first 5 games were 97' 4-1 (6-5 after), 98' 4-1 (5-6 after), 99' 4-1 (4-7 after)

    BB - Always finishes strong. 01' 2-3 (after 9-2), 03' 3-2 (after 11-0), 08' 3-2 (after 8-3)

    BB's teams always improve as the season progresses. Sure they have the random lose here are there but I mean really the two loses this season both came against bad calls from replacement refs and they still were in the game to the point where it was the finally play that made the difference (one of which against a great team might has been shown to be a blown call)

    This team is much closer to being a 5-0 team then it is a 3-2 team like the Rams. The record doesn't tell you the facts in this case

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking12. Show harleyroadking12's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    it's five years later

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the O is much more diverse and balanced which should help come Dec and Jan though a little less explosive but, I do like the 07's D better. This D has the potential to be better at the end of the year compared to the 07 teams D but they need to find a groove and ride it. I think the biggest challenge is that they are allowed to be aggressive early in the game but they are forced into a very passive D come the 4th which imo kills them. BB is so afraid to give up a big play he goes into a prevent whenever he has a two score lead and I think that's one of their biggest problems with this D as opposed to the 07 D where they were attacking most of the time. IMO once he gains more confidence in some of the younger players in the front 7 and if the secondary can improve throughout the year he'll let them loose instead of trying to turtle late in the game

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the coaches choose to go into passive mode, and more often then not, seems like teams are allowed to get back into the game. So, why do thety do that?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    We were more experienced on Defense in 2007 but we were also slower.

    This year our running game is better than 2007 and passing game is just as deadly.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    If the Pats don't make the Super Bowl is this even a discussion?

    This same questioned was asked in 2010 when the Pats had one of the most efficient offenses.

    1. This team already scored under 20 points.

    2. People seem to forget how absoultely dominant the 2007 team was...against a pretty tough regular season schedule too against 6 playoff teams (Chargers, Colts, Giants, Cowboys, Steelers, Redskins)

    This was also when the Pats, Chargers, Colts and Steelers were the top dogs in the AFC, and the Pats destroyed the Chargers and Steelers in the reg season.

    This 2012 offense hasnt even beaten a top defense yet. (baltimore is in the bottom half in yards allowed).

    Running against Buffalo and Denver isn't that impressive when you consider they are currently ranked #21 and #30 against the run.

    We'll get about a better idea of how good this offense is once we play SEA, STL, SF and HOU...all teams with defenses that are tough matchups.

    Until then, all you can really compare are the first 5 weeks of the 2007 team and the first 5 weeks of the 2012 team.

    At this point, Tom Brady had 16 TDs and the defense was allowing less than 15 pts per game

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If the Pats don't make the Super Bowl is this even a discussion?

    This same questioned was asked in 2010 when the Pats had one of the most efficient offenses.

    1. This team already scored under 20 points.

    2. People seem to forget how absoultely dominant the 2007 team was...against a pretty tough regular season schedule too against 6 playoff teams (Chargers, Colts, Giants, Cowboys, Steelers, Redskins)

    This was also when the Pats, Chargers, Colts and Steelers were the top dogs in the AFC, and the Pats destroyed the Chargers and Steelers in the reg season.

    This 2012 offense hasnt even beaten a top defense yet. (baltimore is in the bottom half in yards allowed).

    Running against Buffalo and Denver isn't that impressive when you consider they are currently ranked #21 and #30 against the run.

    We'll get about a better idea of how good this offense is once we play SEA, STL, SF and HOU...all teams with defenses that are tough matchups.

    Until then, all you can really compare are the first 5 weeks of the 2007 team and the first 5 weeks of the 2012 team.

    At this point, Tom Brady had 16 TDs and the defense was allowing less than 15 pts per game

    [/QUOTE]


    Maybe the 2007 team was incredibly lucky for several of those games in 2007? lol :)

    Altho the passing offense was incredibly good, the magic began wearing off about mid-season. They peaked by week 4 and the team really epically failed to bring home the bacon in the final game.


    I'm thinking the offense will still improve over the course of the season, and hopefully, the defense will too.  The 2012 defense; especially the secondary, needs to show they can get off the field - and make clutch plays in meaningful games.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    I think going 16-0 in the regular season, including a clutch comeback in win #16, is still pretty special. i mean no one had ever done it before and teams are still trying. I do not consider a season a failure if they do not win the Lombardi trophy. I grew up watching some pretty pathetic Patriot squads and I always wished the Pats were like the 70's Cowboys or Raiders. Loathed but respected and feared. Every time someone beat one of those teams back in the 70's it seemed really important and surprising. Those teams went years without a losing season. The Patriots are like that now. Beating the Pats now is special for everyone. Even the Steelers celebrate their victories over the Pats more than their victories over the Ravens. Go to a sports bar out of New England. When the Pats lose everyone, other than the Pats faithful cheer. Not since the early 90's Cowboys has there been a team hated by so many and unlike those great Cowboy teams which really were only great for about 5 years the Pats are going on 12 years. Us Pat fans are freaking lucky. Best coach in the league (until Harbaugh starts winning those Lombardis) and the best player of the past decade.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think going 16-0 in the regular season, including a clutch comeback in win #16, is still pretty special. i mean no one had ever done it before and teams are still trying. I do not consider a season a failure if they do not win the Lombardi trophy. I grew up watching some pretty pathetic Patriot squads and I always wished the Pats were like the 70's Cowboys or Raiders. Loathed but respected and feared. Every time someone beat one of those teams back in the 70's it seemed really important and surprising. Those teams went years without a losing season. The Patriots are like that now. Beating the Pats now is special for everyone. Even the Steelers celebrate their victories over the Pats more than their victories over the Ravens. Go to a sports bar out of New England. When the Pats lose everyone, other than the Pats faithful cheer. Not since the early 90's Cowboys has there been a team hated by so many and unlike those great Cowboy teams which really were only great for about 5 years the Pats are going on 12 years. Us Pat fans are freaking lucky. Best coach in the league (until Harbaugh starts winning those Lombardis) and the best player of the past decade.

    [/QUOTE]


    actually, if memory serves me correctly there are 2-3 pro teams that went undefeated regular season, but only the phins went undefeated during regular season and won SB.


    Well, yes it was an accomplishment - but at the end of the day, it was an epic failure - noone really cares who came in second. And sadder yet, it happend twice to the same damn team

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    I'm not 100% sure, but think the Pats are the only team to go 16-0 in the regular season.  Other teams with undefeated regular seasons did it when the regular season was shorter than 16 games I believe.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    The 1934 Bears went 13-0, the 1942 Bears went 11-0, the 1972 Dolphins went 14-0 and the 2007 Patriots went 16-0. The only one of these teams to win it all was the Dolphins.


    As for 18-1 being an epic failure Bubba, that's a matter of opinion that I don't share with you. I respect the hell out of the 1990-1993 Bills as well as the 2007 and 2011 Patriots.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The 1934 Bears went 13-0, the 1942 Bears went 11-0, the 1972 Dolphins went 14-0 and the 2007 Patriots went 16-0. The only one of these teams to win it all was the Dolphins.


    As for 18-1 being an epic failure Bubba, that's a matter of opinion that I don't share with you. I respect the hell out of the 1990-1993 Bills as well as the 2007 and 2011 Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]

    who? :)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:

    who? :)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking12. Show harleyroadking12's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to JintsFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to harleyroadking12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    it's five years later

    [/QUOTE]


    brilliant

    [/QUOTE]

    as always jints...

    Picture

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: How Does 2012 Patriots Compare To 2007?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As Bill Parcells used to say, you are what you are and that's 3-2. Lots of reason for optimism I think, but it's just five weeks into the season and we haven't clinched a playoff berth yet, never mind won a Lombardi. We beat two bad teams, went one and one against medium teams, and lost to a good team. Let's not get carried away in week five.

    [/QUOTE]


    Parcells might say that but it's not true and I can give you 2 perfect examples of why it isn't:


    Carroll - Always started off the year strong in NE. Actually in 3 years his first 5 games were 97' 4-1 (6-5 after), 98' 4-1 (5-6 after), 99' 4-1 (4-7 after)

    BB - Always finishes strong. 01' 2-3 (after 9-2), 03' 3-2 (after 11-0), 08' 3-2 (after 8-3)

    BB's teams always improve as the season progresses. Sure they have the random lose here are there but I mean really the two loses this season both came against bad calls from replacement refs and they still were in the game to the point where it was the finally play that made the difference (one of which against a great team might has been shown to be a blown call)

    This team is much closer to being a 5-0 team then it is a 3-2 team like the Rams. The record doesn't tell you the facts in this case

    [/QUOTE]

    Great stats. Always suspected that but never researched the numbers. Good job.

     

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