How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    on third and 7+ nyg lined up four speedy DEs in front - L to R: jpp, tuck, tollefson, osi. it was very effective against the niners, who converted 1-13 on third down.

    what are the different things that nwe could do to beat that?

    btw... at 9:55 in the third, sf had 3rd and 8, osi's hand was tight at the level of the ball and he was not flagged for offside. it sure helped him get close to smith pretty quickly.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    Yea there were a few times that the Giants were lined up blatantly offsides and got away with it


    You beat it with the run and with chip blocks.  Keep them guessing and make them hear footsteps.  So with a tight end chip, a running back blocker/safety-dumpoff, and 5 linemen on four rushers, you should be able to chip two or three guys if you design it well, while keeping your head on a swivel if you're the extra guy helping someone (Giants' linebackers used delayed blitzes in the last Super Bowl)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    In Response to How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?:
    [QUOTE]on third and 7+ nyg lined up four speedy DEs in front - L to R: jpp, tuck, tollefson, osi. it was very effective against the niners, who converted 1-13 on third down. what are the different things that nwe could do to beat that? btw... at 9:55 in the third, sf had 3rd and 8, osi's hand was tight at the level of the ball and he was not flagged for offside. it sure helped him get close to smith pretty quickly.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    NE is not SF. NE will overcome anything NYG tries, and win.
     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    In Response to Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?:
    [QUOTE]Yea there were a few times that the Giants were lined up blatantly offsides and got away with it You beat it with the run and with chip blocks.  Keep them guessing and make them hear footsteps.  So with a tight end chip, a running back blocker/safety-dumpoff, and 5 linemen on four rushers, you should be able to chip two or three guys if you design it well, while keeping your head on a swivel if you're the extra guy helping someone (Giants' linebackers used delayed blitzes in the last Super Bowl)
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    The run is a great way to slow down the pass rush, but the Giants usually employ this package on third-and-long situations. Running the ball likely won't pick up the first down.

    Certainly, one way to succeed against the Giants D is to do well on 1st and 2nd down so that third downs are easier to convert. Your idea of chip blocking is, I think, the right way to go as well.

    In the end, though, it just comes down to the perfomance of the line. Can they stop the rushers when Brady needs to hold the ball a little longer? They've been solid all year. Even in week 9, they gave Brady decent protection. I think they can execute again. They will have to.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    Probably see that in obvious passing situations like 3rd and long. So don't get into 3rd and long.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    Now the Pats pass short and get mega YAC.  Last SB they tried to go long.  Go ahead and pressure Brady, and the Giants will be seeing the backs of the Pats receivers all night.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    In Response to How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?:
    [QUOTE]on third and 7+ nyg lined up four speedy DEs in front - L to R: jpp, tuck, tollefson, osi. it was very effective against the niners, who converted 1-13 on third down. what are the different things that nwe could do to beat that? btw... at 9:55 in the third, sf had 3rd and 8, osi's hand was tight at the level of the ball and he was not flagged for offside. it sure helped him get close to smith pretty quickly.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Gronk and Hern  and Welk on the field - and TB is not AS.

    The length of the ball is the neutral zone, so if Osi was at the tip, he was good. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    No huddle offense. 

    You saw none of it the first time they played. 

    You'll see lots of it this time. 

    Guaranteed.

    No three TE Solder on the field nonsense.

    Extra blockers won't work. If they are moving the ball, no huddle on second to third. If they get caught with 4DE, then bring on a runner, and then stay in no huddle untl you wear those DEs out. 

    No huddle offense. Get your matchups lined up the way you like. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/gallery/2012/10_unreasonable_reasons_why_patriots_will_win/

    here's y the pats will win
     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?


    Lousaka Polite has a big day as an outlet receiver?  Or who knows, maybe this is why Faulk is still on the team . . . good pass blocking, good hands . . . 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    I'll echo what some have said, the NE offense IS NOT SF and the Giants are facing Brady and not Smith.  Smith couldn't punch himself out of a paper bag that day and had happy feet.  Brady and the Pats offense is designed for fast paced plays with quick releases and throws.  This will be a very different offense than the one the Giants saw in October.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eddyd08. Show Eddyd08's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    I believe the Best way to beat the Nascar package is simple...Drive right.. LOL Just kidding. Now seriously like Zbellino said no huddle offense means wearing out their defense. Also mix and match the plays. Use the fake pass by Brady allowing BJE to run down the middle untouch. Use the sideline to your advantage to kill the clock when you are on the two minute warning(use Ocho on those plays) Also use those guys that the Giants will not double up: Ocho and Riddley.  Also since Gronk is playing hurt the Giants will play him man to man.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    Oh, I really like Z's idea on the no-huddle. At first, it seemed a little counterintuitive to me. If you go no-huddle, aren't you exposing yourself to the pass rush a little more? I guess I forgot that you can run the ball out of no-huddle as well.

    Like Z said, no-huddle keeps one defense and allows for us to pick matchups. If we allow them to sub in personnel, then we allow them to play the matchups.

    If they have their "Nascar" package on the field, we can pound them with the run and wear them out. If they have their regular linemen, then we won't worry as much in pass protection.

    Either way, it allows us to dictate the rhythm of the game and keeps their D-Line on their heels. Go no huddle!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    Sorry Seattle...Initially there wasn't a thread on this, and I was too lazy to begin a new thread with my take...

    <cut AND paste />


     RE: NE's Runningback corp, as it relates to the upcoming Superbowl...


    First, NE's in an infinitely better position right now (compared to '07) to counter what NY's specific physical look (personell-wise) in their given 4-3 Defense, and second, NE's now in a position TO be able to counter the specific things & ways that The Giants finished off NE's Championship hopes in that 207-2008 SB Game...


    TO beat The Ny Giants, Imo- The Offensive Gameplan for NE will HAVE to start with the run, and be determined enough and head-strong to keep at it early on (most specifically), even If it may falter a bit.  2 things now on how to go about beating NY's Defense, and how it relates to the first Giants/NE match-up earlier this season:  
        
         NE started that first regular season match-up with precisely the right game-plan in mind on How a team should go about beating The Giants Defense.  NE did in that game, what imo, They MUST do early on in this SB contest...  You do, long extended drives early on.  EQUAL parts pass and equal parts run...and if ya gotta err slightly in 1 direction offensively, you go towards a slightly larger commitment to the running game (just above 50-50 run/pass, like 55% run/45% pass).  You do this early on, in VERY long, and very extended Time of Possession Drives.  This IS, in fact what NE began doing in the 1st match-up this year...but 2 things threw this gameplan into the trash heap- 
     
      #1. Tom Brady had perhaps one of his worst performances in recent memory (Not only was Brady not accurate 20 for 39 in passing attempts/completions), but Brady also threw 2 Ints as well...NE will not win with that performance. 
      #2. O'Brien and/or BB was extremely fickle and not even modestly patient in how they went about allowing this early gameplan develop in terms of NE's Running Game (I DO believe there was some attempt here, to try to allow for Brady to shake off some of this early-in-that-game, sub-par play...YET regardless, I also believe that NE's Coaching Staff was way to hasty in allowing for their running game to fully develop in that game).  At the same time Brady was having an off-day in that game (and here I'm particularly refering to early on in that game, as it relates to NE's initial gameplan commitment to try to open up the running game, on those equal run/equal pass, extended TOP drives against NY).  Go back and see, not only did NE start quickly favoring (albeit slightly...but erringly) the passing game just a bit more, after the first 2-3 failed drives (due unfortunately, most largely to Brady's inconsistancy here), BUT NE's Coaching Staff ALSO began flip-flopping their runningbacks, In-to the game, then out, then in, then out...To The GREAT detriment of hurting NE's specific runners, and allowing for them to get into any rhythm and/or feel for The Giants D, or just to establish themselves.  Runningback is very instinctual, and IF as soon as you the specific RB, get stopped for zero gain on just 1 play (after several + yardage plays), Your coaching staff immediately pulls you in favor of trying their luck with someone else (and again...and again, until it eventually comes back to you), it sacrifices that runner's deliberacy AND it harms that runner's feel within the game to get established...


    Alright, My take on that 1st match-up  off to the side now...THIS is what NE should do (or what in an ideal circumstance, Offensively I would do).  First 4 possessions, you commit to equal parts running game & passing game on Offense (the confusing looks NE's 2 TE set-up should work wonders right here- i.e. that 7 man power formation with 2 TEs on each side, that can also flip in an instant by sending either/both TEs into varying motions prior to the snap-Run OR Pass).  Now, you're attempting to dishearten NY, in that frustrating slow, prolonged death type of way...  After (and here's your hope, what you want) you ideally get up by 2 scores...most teams would stick with this gameplan...but I wouldn't.  You get up by 2 scores, and NOW (right out of half-time)=You up-tempo your Offense, and go for the jugular.  Spread out, pass first, Run just when you see them backing onto their heels on any given set of downs/specific down.  
         In all, The M.O. is to do this: Frustrate The Giants early on, slow and exacting and tiring and frustrating them...THEN, rather than continuing with this (yes, even IF totally successful), You MUST finish them off by burying them...Do NOT allow them to stay within any reach of you 3rd quarter and onwards=Do Not.  Open it up, and go for the complete and absolute kill, b/c imo it ain't gonna work any other way w/ NY...


    RE: NY's Specific form of 4-3 Defense, personell wise...

    ~I've stated this before...NY's front seven, is long, muscular, and big...but there is a difference in terms of what they are NOT, comparatively to other standard 4-3 D's...they are not stout, they are not heavy.  This goes right down the D-Line and into their LBs...but if ya need specifics, NY is particularly long/tall (but not trully "stout") with their 2 DTs, Then their LBs (and then, their DEs).  But again, NY's D makes up for this overall "weight" factor, by first being tall/big and extremely fast & athletic (ALL-around on their Defensive front 7), and they further counter any shortcomings they have in overall "bulk"/"stoutness", by having those freak DEs, whom are just man-childs + deploying a noticeably larger type of player, throughout their secondary positions.  

    Now, I'm giving ya the quick jist here about the minor differences in NY's specific personell that they like using in their 4-3 Defensive look, because this long, tall, and athletic speed, which shortchanges overall bulk, WAS what killed NE in 2007-08.  NY's specific personell is built to be great 1-gap, VERY fast penetrating gap-shooters...They are built to pass-rush first and foremost.  The Giants bank on the fact that the oppossing team's running game can be held largely in check by those freak DEs on the outside, and on in the inside, those longer LBs backed up by significantly bigger secondary guys surrounding them.  
       Gettin' ahead of myself here...THUS, Because that's what you WOULD do, in order to counter what NY did in the NY/NE SB of '07 (discussed this in the past too)...NY's DTs were sent full-bore, 1-gap shooting the seams between those interior O-Linemen, WithOUT care or concern for NE's running game threat in that SB (dancing, hesitating, Laurence Maroney).  Meanwhile, NY's DEs played a sorta cat & mouse, head on a swivel, not fully penetrating containment of that pocket/running game, as they (NY's DEs) would wait for the play direction to fully develop before committing fully themselves to how they would angle their attack to any specific play...  

    IF NY's gameplan is to do what they did in '07...NE is in an infinitely better spot to counter, and then exploit NY's Defensive Gameplan here.  And it'll be through NE's specific deployment of their RBs...  NY sends their DTs all-out spear-heading, while NY's DEs cat & mouse a sorta edge containment before fully committing themselves, and NE has 3 Runningbacks, perfectly situated to exploit this:  If and when NY's Gameplan lies a bit more in spearheading those DTs (all-out)=A RB of Stevan Ridley's pure size and power WILL make those DTs learn to be just a bit hesitant (really quickly), as a brush/arm tackle offered by those DTs (who have narrowed their vision & play-making chance against the interior run, with those DTs mindset/skillset pointed towards a collapse-the-pocket, and pentrate, penetrate, PENETRATE greater focus).  Now...If and when NY decides to focus a bit more of their efforts and aims at using their freak DEs to beat NE's OTs, NE can use Woodhead's quick, small, slippery jitterbug running frame, to make them pay in those DEs quick & speedy commitment to their asngle of attack from the side of the line...  (BJGE I ommit b/c he's an understood, as he occupies a bit of both of these other guy's skill-sets).  Either way, BOTH Ridley and Woodhead are physical mismatches running-wise, against a team that hedges more towards emphasizing a long & fast front 7 personell, while losing ground on the stout/bulk/weight aspect of their front...                              
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    In Response to Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?:
    [QUOTE]Oh, I really like Z's idea on the no-huddle. At first, it seemed a little counterintuitive to me. If you go no-huddle, aren't you exposing yourself to the pass rush a little more? I guess I forgot that you can run the ball out of no-huddle as well. Like Z said, no-huddle keeps one defense and allows for us to pick matchups. If we allow them to sub in personnel, then we allow them to play the matchups. If they have their "Nascar" package on the field, we can pound them with the run and wear them out. If they have their regular linemen, then we won't worry as much in pass protection. Either way, it allows us to dictate the rhythm of the game and keeps their D-Line on their heels. Go no huddle!
    Posted by kevin13130[/QUOTE]


    No huddle is what they've used all season to counter aggressive defenses and it's worked well for the most part.  There are some risks--interceptions are maybe a bit more likely with that fast pace--but with our TEs and Welker it puts a lot of stress on the LBs who are trying to cover the underneath zones and it softens them up for the run if we decide to go that way.  

    I'm going to pretend for a minute that Polite is a hidden gem who can pass block, block for screens, catch balls out of the backfield, and run a bit himself or that Faulk will suddenly return to his former self of three or four years ago.  Then we can go no huddle with Hernandez, Gronk, Branch, and Welker, plus the all-purpose back.  With those guys we can morph from a five wide formation to a two-back formation (Hernandez and our other back) and create all sorts of challenges and mismatches for the defense in the short zones.  By using hurry up, we keep the D sucking wind; we use lots of short, quick passes and runs to tire the LBs.  Maybe we throw in a screen to Hernandez with our all-purpose back, Gronk, Welker/Branch, and our O-line blocking for him.  Then, if the safeties come down, we hit Branch or Welker or even Hernandez/Gronk on go routes.  The nice thing is Hernandez can be used in any position from back, to TE, to slot, to wideout--so he allows the offense to morph into all sorts of looks without substitutions.  This makes the hurry-up particularly effective because we can give very different looks without substituting, but the D has no time to change packages. I think the key will be the fifth skill player . . . they used Edelman and Woodhead a lot against the Ravens, but I'm not convinced either of those guys has quite the versatility I'd like in that fifth player.  Darren Sproles would be perfect . . . but in his absence, maybe Polite or Faulk will turn out to be the guy.  I think Faulk is still on the team exactly because BB hopes he can get some of Faulk's prior versatility back.  Not sure exactly about Polite . . . but it's okay to dream he has more skills than we've seen so far, right? 





     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?


    Tb to throw quickly
    Wr's must get off the jams

    OLB's of Giants not much to write home about
    and there db's are a function of the DL

    last fall we lost field position and To'S
    we must fix taht
     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    5-3-3 alignments. Also use a running game and keep Eli on the bench watching as the clock is ticking away! Score first with a TD and force the NYG to match production.Lastly but most importantly pray that Mike Carey isn't the head referee!!! I just googled to find out who will be the Head Ref and there is good news Ed Hochuli has been assigned the game. So now we pray that the team plays well and God continues being a Patriots fan!
     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    In Response to Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package? : No huddle is what they've used all season to counter aggressive defenses and it's worked well for the most part.  There are some risks--interceptions are maybe a bit more likely with that fast pace--but with our TEs and Welker it puts a lot of stress on the LBs who are trying to cover the underneath zones and it softens them up for the run if we decide to go that way.   I'm going to pretend for a minute that Polite is a hidden gem who can pass block, block for screens, catch balls out of the backfield, and run a bit himself or that Faulk will suddenly return to his former self of three or four years ago.  Then we can go no huddle with Hernandez, Gronk, Branch, and Welker, plus the all-purpose back.  With those guys we can morph from a five wide formation to a two-back formation (Hernandez and our other back) and create all sorts of challenges and mismatches for the defense in the short zones.  By using hurry up, we keep the D sucking wind; we use lots of short, quick passes and runs to tire the LBs.  Maybe we throw in a screen to Hernandez with our all-purpose back, Gronk, Welker/Branch, and our O-line blocking for him.  Then, if the safeties come down, we hit Branch or Welker or even Hernandez/Gronk on go routes.  The nice thing is Hernandez can be used in any position from back, to TE, to slot, to wideout--so he allows the offense to morph into all sorts of looks without substitutions.  This makes the hurry-up particularly effective because we can give very different looks without substituting, but the D has no time to change packages. I think the key will be the fifth skill player . . . they used Edelman and Woodhead a lot against the Ravens, but I'm not convinced either of those guys has quite the versatility I'd like in that fifth player.  Darren Sproles would be perfect . . . but in his absence, maybe Polite or Faulk will turn out to be the guy.  I think Faulk is still on the team exactly because BB hopes he can get some of Faulk's prior versatility back.  Not sure exactly about Polite . . . but it's okay to dream he has more skills than we've seen so far, right? 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I think that all-purpose back will be Danny Woodhead. He has usually played that role this year, although he was more effective in it last year. As you say, I doubt Polite will be that guy. I think Hernandez in the backfield isn't a bad option, either. We have so much versatility in our personnel that, if we go no-huddle and prevent them from substituting, we can create mismatches all game.

    Brady is pretty masterful at running the no-huddle. He performs all the checks at the line anyways. It's just that the offense lines up quickly so the other team can't put in players. If he has a good game, then I expect our offense to be able to handle whatever the Giants throw at us.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    In Response to Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package? : I think that all-purpose back will be Danny Woodhead. He has usually played that role this year, although he was more effective in it last year. As you say, I doubt Polite will be that guy. I think Hernandez in the backfield isn't a bad option, either. We have so much versatility in our personnel that, if we go no-huddle and prevent them from substituting, we can create mismatches all game. Brady is pretty masterful at running the no-huddle. He performs all the checks at the line anyways. It's just that the offense lines up quickly so the other team can't put in players. If he has a good game, then I expect our offense to be able to handle whatever the Giants throw at us.
    Posted by kevin13130[/QUOTE]

    Woodhead has been the guy and, you're right, probably will continue to be it . . . I just wish he were a little more effective at it.  I like the way they've been using Hernandez out of the backfield.  I wonder if they can build a bit of a screen game around him.  I'd like to see this team do a bit more with screens than they have.  I suspect, though, the coaches aren't fully sold on BJGE's and Woodhead's abilities in the screen game.  I think they have athletic enough blockers on the O line to do it.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: How does the pats beat NYG's nascar package?

    thanks all... interesting comments.

    imo, the no huddle is not the answer to my question.

    1) the no huddle may help the pats minimize the chances of them getting on 3rd and long situations
    2) at no huddle pace, the nyg actually won't have the time to switch from having two DTs in the middle to having 4 DEs in front.
    so really, the no huddle is about trying to void that speed package.

    unless we are suggesting the pats play no huddle all game, then it does not provide the answer for when the 4 DEs are on the field. I actually think the pats will lose if they overuse the no huddle. i believe that going no huddle on more than 3-4 drives on a 10-possession game is overusing it. assuming they face two 3rd and longs on every one of the other 6-7 possessions, what do they do?

    i like the idea of the run and quick short passes - but not with woodhead. with woodhead in tehre, it gets tempting to try to use the speed to get around the edge. that plays right into the 4 DE set's strength. if the pats see four DEs in there, i want the pats to pound and outpower those four DEs in the middle. i think that is where the mismatch will be. not only do you want the guards to bully those DEs, you also want the back carrying the ball to be one who can run over a slightly off balance DE. this is the reason i like bjge in that situation.

    to help bjge a bit, the pats can't allow the giants to put 7-8 men in the box.  the pats needs to spread that d a bit.



     

Share