How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    My view of Mike Vrabel is the same as my view of Troy Brown. "In the key plays of our SuperBowl runs there were plays made by each, that had they not made them, the season would have ended early."

    I see the Vrabel TD's but even more the number of drive stopping hits he made in the backfield and open field. It feels like with his presence today our attack into the backfield would be more complete. (Meaning it would exist)

    Is it just me?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]My view of Mike Vrabel is the same as my view of Troy Brown. "In the key plays of our SuperBowl runs there were plays made by each, that had they not made them, the season would have ended early." I see the Vrabel TD's but even more the number of drive stopping hits he made in the backfield and open field. It feels like with his presence today our attack into the backfield would be more complete. (Meaning it would exist) Is it just me?
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]

    I can't say if it's just you, but it's definitely not me.

    Vrabel looked SOOO slow last year.  Also, although they've maintained a stand-offish public relations stance, Belichick seemed to imply that Vrabel wasn't effectively communicating the plays to the defense.

    Vrabel couldn't make plays anymore because he had no quickness.  He couldn't beat the man across from him to the first step, couldn't get around the edge while pass rushing, and didn't have the quickness to cover.

    Hence this year, the Patriots are able to field four athletic linebackers if necessary (Mayo, Guyton, Thomas, and Woods), along with two DE/OLB hybrids (TBC, Ninkovich), and the defense looks much faster because of it.  They get beat AT the point of attack, but I don't see them getting beat TO the point of attack, and being there is half the battle (now if only they could shed blocks a little better and take better angles of attack...)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why? : I can't say if it's just you, but it's definitely not me. Vrabel looked SOOO slow last year.  Also, although they've maintained a stand-offish public relations stance, Belichick seemed to imply that Vrabel wasn't effectively communicating the plays to the defense. Vrabel couldn't make plays anymore because he had no quickness.  He couldn't beat the man across from him to the first step, couldn't get around the edge while pass rushing, and didn't have the quickness to cover. Hence this year, the Patriots are able to field four athletic linebackers if necessary (Mayo, Guyton, Thomas, and Woods), along with two DE/OLB hybrids (TBC, Ninkovich), and the defense looks much faster because of it.  They get beat AT the point of attack, but I don't see them getting beat TO the point of attack, and being there is half the battle (now if only they could shed blocks a little better and take better angles of attack...)
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Good post
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasonh86. Show jasonh86's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why? : I can't say if it's just you, but it's definitely not me. Vrabel looked SOOO slow last year.  Also, although they've maintained a stand-offish public relations stance, Belichick seemed to imply that Vrabel wasn't effectively communicating the plays to the defense. Vrabel couldn't make plays anymore because he had no quickness.  He couldn't beat the man across from him to the first step, couldn't get around the edge while pass rushing, and didn't have the quickness to cover. Hence this year, the Patriots are able to field four athletic linebackers if necessary (Mayo, Guyton, Thomas, and Woods), along with two DE/OLB hybrids (TBC, Ninkovich), and the defense looks much faster because of it.  They get beat AT the point of attack, but I don't see them getting beat TO the point of attack, and being there is half the battle (now if only they could shed blocks a little better and take better angles of attack...)
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this 100%. 

    Sure the guys don't have the experience under their belt that Vrabel did, but they've got the athleticism and speed to make up for it.  They will only get better over the course of the season, which will prove to be a substantial upgrade. 

    Vrabel was awesome and was one of my favorites, but I agree that it was time to move onto somebody else who can play at a better level.. hated to see him go, but it was something that needed to happen sooner rather than later. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    Vrabel's best assets were rushing the passer and turning an outside play back inside. Like the above poster said he has lost a step or 2. So that being said he could no longer get to the QB on a consistent basis. Sure he can still hold the edge, but so could a good piece of oak. I really dont think the Pats lose much with Woods, Thomas, TBC or Ninkovich on the outside rather then Vrabel. If anything they gain speed, quickness and TDC is a better pass rusher at this point in his career. The one thing that will be missed was his ability to come up with the huge play at the biggest moments. Someone will need to fill that void. Much like Vrabel filled the void for McGinest.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sbruce9. Show sbruce9's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    I will preface my remarks by saying that I am a huge Vrabel fan and Ohio State.  I was initially shocked when they traded him, but it was all for the best.  Last year our defense seemed slow at the LB level.  Plays were routinely passing through to the third level, leading to big plays for the opponent. Now with Vrabel and Bruschi (also a favorite) gone we seem to be making more plays at the second level.  We do have to deal with players being out of position occasionally (Pierre Woods comes to mind), but i feel our LB play has steadily improved over the course of the year.  Its hard to let go of veterans, but many times the performance on the field is no longer equal to the expectation set in prior years.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    Bottom line is that there's no way anyone can prove that. As much as we love our vets from the early 2000s there comes a time when you have to bring in youth. Myself I miss him more in his role in the red zone offense than I do on d
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    It would likely be worse. Vrabel is terrible now.

    He was very good at one point. But now he stinks.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from thetrinity12. Show thetrinity12's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    I'm all for appreciating what Vrabel did for us in the past, but that ship sailed long, long ago. He is nowhere near what he was during our super bowl seasons. His great season in 07 actually flattered him; he had all day to get to the QB when the other team had to play catch-up by the 2nd quarter. He's been slow since probably 05.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowtherabbit-. Show cowtherabbit-'s posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    With Tony G. gone, Vrabel is KC's best goaline TE.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from One-If-By-Sea. Show One-If-By-Sea's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]It would likely be worse. Vrabel is terrible now. He was very good at one point. But now he stinks.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I think that zbellino might be a bit harsh, but Vrabel was never fast so when he loses a step he is slow. Fast guys like Galloway lose a step but are still fast enough, slower guys lose a step and they are too slow to keep up with the young guys.

    That does not mean Vrabel stinks - he is just older and wiser (and a bit slower), just like me.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonnyCorlione. Show SonnyCorlione's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    It's not so simple when you consider deminishing talent of these aging vets against a younger player like Guyton - couple that with Vrabel's cap number and it makes sense that they let him go.  Still, I think he would have added experience.  He's made plays in Kansas City this year.  I just think from a talent perspective both he and Bruschi would have been more or less on the field coaches and you expect profession, even a young one, to get the job done on their own.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    Here is what I think.  I think it was INCREDIBLY nice of them to trade him, literally force KC to eat his contract to get Matt Cassel.  He gets paid his $5 mill, and I am sure after last year we would have let him go anyway.  I think he got paid by getting traded, and they didn't have to do that.  I will always appreciate the contribution he made, but his better days were behind him, judging by last year.  Lets be honest, last year Matt Cassel played well enough to get us to the playoffs.  The D just couldn't get a stop in a few games.  The OT Jets game comes to mind.  I think Bill B saw that, and decided it was time to blow it up and start over. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gulo. Show Gulo's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    the 3 rings earlier this decade were from another team.  These pats and those pats have moved on.  Now they are looking for [and have] new players to be special for them when they make another Dynasty run.  It only seems eminent that the pats will be in the running for SB year after year until Brady decides to hang'em up.  
    but dont take that for granted. BB is a genius, he doesnt get enough credit for the personnel moves hes made in the past years.  Everyone was saying that this team was too Old and slow. now they are saying that they are too young and inexperienced. BUT HE JUST SKIPPED A REBULIDING PERIOD.  with all of those high draft picks that he's acquired, we are practically guaranteed having the pats as an elite level team for a long time.
    Rember, BB IS NOT GOD.  BB IS GREATER THAN GOD
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    Why is it that all the talk was about how slow the LBs were last year so they change it up to get quicker and now some one asks about getting one of the slow ones back to make it better????????????????
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?


    Slow but smart. I agree that the new speed on Defense is the key to the future. To bad we had to lose so much experience at the same time. I have faith and can see the reasoning, just hated losing all the rings experience in one year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    dude thats why seau is here.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from payingfan. Show payingfan's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]dude thats why seau is here.
    Posted by artielang[/QUOTE]

    Seau is here because he came on the cheap.  If he gets injured, Kraft doesn't have to pay him!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why? : Seau is here because he came on the cheap.  If he gets injured, Kraft doesn't have to pay him!
    Posted by payingfan[/QUOTE]

    Leon my little bug stop pretending you're a Pats fan. Just go wallow in the 41 year misery of being a Jets fan and leave normal people alone
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Nipasan. Show Nipasan's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    Vrabel would be nice but the age and the money...Pats are going in different direction...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]Slow but smart. I agree that the new speed on Defense is the key to the future. To bad we had to lose so much experience at the same time. I have faith and can see the reasoning, just hated losing all the rings experience in one year.
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]

    THIS gmbill Post and NickC's 1st Post iterate my sentiments exactly...  The NFL is a Young Man's League (ageless freaks of nature like Seau, Excluded).  The Game is SO fast, and It IS Tough losing all that Experience, Leadership and vast football smarts, BUT Production: hard-hitting Stops on D, stretching the field with a blazer wideout...THESE are things that are the Trump Card.  Now, "How Much Better WOULD We be with Mike Vrabel still on the team," One asks? 

    Again, Factor in his Leadership, Football IQ, The Fact that He was CONSISTENTLY "manning" that OLB spot (i.e. NEVER injured) AND THEN Multiply it by what matters MOST OF ALLProducing on the Field..."making plays", Here...We'll multiply it by 1 (which IF I recall correcly was Mike Vrabel's SACK TOTAL ALL of Last Season)...  

    IF You do that Math Equation Correctly, YOU ALL will have Your Answer (and the  meaning of the universe)...  Myself?  I was an English-Philosophy/Linguistics Dble Major...So forget about it 'cause I'm just happy when I'm in the $5 range of figuring out my Grand Total when pulling up to the Drive-Thru Window, after ordering 2 Items on the McDonald's Dollar Value Menu...(in otherwords, that means I suk)...    
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from steve1581. Show steve1581's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]My view of Mike Vrabel is the same as my view of Troy Brown. "In the key plays of our SuperBowl runs there were plays made by each, that had they not made them, the season would have ended early." I see the Vrabel TD's but even more the number of drive stopping hits he made in the backfield and open field. It feels like with his presence today our attack into the backfield would be more complete. (Meaning it would exist) Is it just me?
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]


    VRABEL DID LOSE A STEP. HIS TRADE HAS ALLOWED YOUNGER PLAYERS... HAS FORCED YOUNGER PLAYERS... TO TRY TO ELEVATE THEIR GAME. 

    TO ME THIS QUESTION IS REALLY ASKING "HOW MUCH BETTER WOULD THE PATS D BE WITH VRABEL INSTEAD OF GUYTON"  because the trade and other events have opened up that outside spot to guyton and he is a speed s.o.b. He is 4.5 while Vrabel is probably 5.4



    I DONT THINK THEY WOULD BE BETTER WITH VRABEL



    VRABEL AND BRUSCHI ARE 2 OF MY FAVORITE  ALL TIME PLAYERS SO ITS HARD FOR ME TO SAY THAT BUT ITS TRUE


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    In Response to How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?:
    [QUOTE]My view of Mike Vrabel is the same as my view of Troy Brown. "In the key plays of our SuperBowl runs there were plays made by each, that had they not made them, the season would have ended early." I see the Vrabel TD's but even more the number of drive stopping hits he made in the backfield and open field. It feels like with his presence today our attack into the backfield would be more complete. (Meaning it would exist) Is it just me?
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]

    I have to say that I don't think we would be any better. I don't know the exact numbers but to me we look like a better team on defense. The patriots had a hard time getting to the QB last year even when we blitzed. It was either coverage sack or bust for the most part. One thing that has impressed me this year is that when we get aggressive we have done some damage. Also, Our DB's are capable of playing tighter. I expect good things from this group by the end of the year.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    It wouldn't be better. Though given that Thomas has been a bust I'd rather have Vrabel in there. Patriots needed speed. That was so obvious last year. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: How much better would our D-fence be with Mike Vrabel? and why?

    gm,  I don't believe MV would add anything to the Defense at this point in his career. He will always be known as a great Patriot and Champion but the MV ship has sailed.
     

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