If There Was Any Doubt

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    If There Was Any Doubt

    I know Wozzy has been harping on this for a while, but last night seemed like more validation that edge rushers need to be complemented by an interior push when playing against good teams.  Did Aldon Smith even play last night?  He has been invisible ever since Justin Smith got injured against us and I don't think it was a coincidence.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I know Wozzy has been harping on this for a while, but last night seemed like more validation that edge rushers need to be complemented by an interior push when playing against good teams.  Did Aldon Smith even play last night?  He has been invisible ever since Justin Smith got injured against us and I don't think it was a coincidence.




    I agree somewhat but I also think you have to give credit to Baltimores old line. The changes they made at the end of the year went under the radar but they played the  best postseason I can remember for a while. Von Miller and Dumerville didnt Sniff Flacco either. So while I get your point, it would be more valid if they didnt shut down EVERY D-line they faced , but they did. Credit the B-more Line for playing fantastic. Aldon Smith is still a beast but that whole San Fran defense looked tired the 1st half and chalk that up to young players on the 9ers out partying and collecting beads and the Ravens were ALL BIZNESS!

    This is why I cautioned everyone about pass rushers. People think we are gonna go get J.Allen or some big name with C.Jones, Bequette, Nink,etc still here??  Good pass rushers can be stopped by great lines. Period. This is why I said, you need a safety to make them pay after the catch cuz they GONNA catch some balls. Boomer agreed with me about safety play also.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    There are several aspects to the pass rush discussion.  I totally agree that good edge rushers can be neutralized by strong O line play.  On the other hand if you have a strong edge rush with push up the middle as well you can force a QB to throw early.  None of that matters however if you don't have a good coverage scheme coupled with effective secondary play.  

    My point?  It's rare that a really good pass defense relies exclusively on a pass rush regardless of where along the D line or from the LBs it comes from.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    What I found interesting was these were seen as two of the best defenses and the offenses moved the ball with ease against them. I thought both O-lines played great. And I found it very interesting that on the two critical stops, 4th and goal and the two point conversion it was not the defensive lines that made the difference it was all out blitz and man to man in the back. That was gutsy, but given what had happened the rest of the game it was also desperation. And against a second year QB it worked, against a Manning or a Brady, able to recognize what was coming and change the play  it might not have. And against a mediocre set of DBs it would not work either.

    And what a huge 3rd down conversion to Boldin - reminded me of the helmet catch! Or that sideline throw and catch from last year. Sometimes you win a SB by being lucky good.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    smith got embarassed on one key play that i remember....he had pierce dead in his tracks in his backfield and somehow pierce got away and got the first down. he has really disappeared in the playoffs. patrick willis was great.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    I don't think it was a case of a lack of interior push. Ngata was largely a nonfactor even when he was in the game.

    Its just whoever makes the plays. Goes for all 22 guys on the field, not just the edge rusher.

    There was an instance where Aldon got a hand on Flacco, and another where Brooks had Flacco on pursuit. I was surprised Flacco could outrun Brooks on that play, let alone launch it for a big gain to Boldin.

     

    Of all 4 teams in the Championship round, none of them had that great of an interior push.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    What I saw on that game was that the team who dominated the line of scrimmage from both sides won the game. And on this game, a very physical one, the bigger one between opposing lines won.

    BAL's DL definitely had the advantage over the SFF OL. It was not even a contest in the first half. The combination of two 340 pounders (Ngata and Kemoeatu) + Jones (315) really made it impossible for the SFF OL to dictate where the running lanes were going to be. The LBs, despite age, moved pretty quick at supporting against the run, and covering against underneath passes.

    Notice how things changed when Ngata went down. You can credit the power outage for the momentum swing if you want, but it was really Ngata's absence that allowed SFF to sustain the rally to make it a close game.

    BAL's OL also dominated the SFF DL. As the OP mentioned, it was like Aldon Smith did not even play. If not for stellar performance by the SFF LBs, that game would have finished lopsided. But again, it was the bigger BAL OL dominating the SFF DL. It did not matter if BAL was running or passing.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    What I saw on that game was that the team who dominated the line of scrimmage from both sides won the game. And on this game, a very physical one, the bigger one between opposing lines won.

    BAL's DL definitely had the advantage over the SFF OL. It was not even a contest in the first half. The combination of two 340 pounders (Ngata and Kemoeatu) + Jones (315) really made it impossible for the SFF OL to dictate where the running lanes were going to be. The LBs, despite age, moved pretty quick at supporting against the run, and covering against underneath passes.

    Notice how things changed when Ngata went down. You can credit the power outage for the momentum swing if you want, but it was really Ngata's absence that allowed SFF to sustain the rally to make it a close game.

    BAL's OL also dominated the SFF DL. As the OP mentioned, it was like Aldon Smith did not even play. If not for stellar performance by the SFF LBs, that game would have finished lopsided. But again, it was the bigger BAL OL dominating the SFF DL. It did not matter if BAL was running or passing.




    This

    The game has moved to the point where QB's can either step up and still perform or escape out of the pocket thus nutralizing the edge rush. When you have LB's who can contain and an interior rush preventing a QB stepping up the edge rush becomes affective but when the edge rush is your only pressure you aren't going to be ablet o get to the QB enough times to make a difference. We really need someone next to Wilfork who can push the OL back 3-4 yrds. Even if they don't get to the QB preventing the QB from stepping up will be enough to force the ball to come out sooner.

    ATJ - there's an old saying with DB's, any secondary can look great for the first two seconds and any secondary can look horrible for every second past 4. You judge a secondary between 2-4 seconds not before or after. If the pass rush is causing the QB to panic in that first 2s then even a make shift secondary with a 30+yr old WR could look great but now secondary filled with pro-bowlers can hold forever. Pass protection starts at the line and ripples out

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    I don't think it was a case of a lack of interior push. Ngata was largely a nonfactor even when he was in the game.

    Its just whoever makes the plays. Goes for all 22 guys on the field, not just the edge rusher.

    There was an instance where Aldon got a hand on Flacco, and another where Brooks had Flacco on pursuit. I was surprised Flacco could outrun Brooks on that play, let alone launch it for a big gain to Boldin.

     

    Of all 4 teams in the Championship round, none of them had that great of an interior push.

     



    I disagree.  You don't need the guys in the middle to actually get sacks you just need to collapse the pocket.  As for Ngata I don't think it was a coincidence that the Raven's D got completely gashed once he went out of the game.  The interior of the defensive line cannot be judged by the stat sheet alone.  If SF punches it in there at the end I think that is the big story of the game.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    IMO, the Pats is really close to having the pieces to pull off the kind of D that BAL has. I believe, that if they NWe can get one of Jenkins or B Williams, you can have a 3 front with Love, VW and Jenkins. C Jones can play Suggs' role. They would need to pick up one very fast LB who can come in as a "cover LB" - to start against teams who throw around 40 passes a game, or can sub in on 3rd and longs. You just don't want Spikes in there. Assuming Talib comes back, then there you have it, I believe. Yes, even with no changes on S.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    "

     

    "But again, it was the bigger BAL OL dominating the SFF DL. It did not matter if BAL was running or passing."

     

    This was the story of the whole postseason in terms of Bmore! Sure, a lot of guys stepped up and gave more for Ray Ray and it was probably destined but without the improvement on the O-line at the end, none of this is possible. The Game Ball(s) should have been given to Matt Birk and the Big Uglies....

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    What I saw on that game was that the team who dominated the line of scrimmage from both sides won the game. And on this game, a very physical one, the bigger one between opposing lines won.

    BAL's DL definitely had the advantage over the SFF OL. It was not even a contest in the first half. The combination of two 340 pounders (Ngata and Kemoeatu) + Jones (315) really made it impossible for the SFF OL to dictate where the running lanes were going to be. The LBs, despite age, moved pretty quick at supporting against the run, and covering against underneath passes.

    Notice how things changed when Ngata went down. You can credit the power outage for the momentum swing if you want, but it was really Ngata's absence that allowed SFF to sustain the rally to make it a close game.

    BAL's OL also dominated the SFF DL. As the OP mentioned, it was like Aldon Smith did not even play. If not for stellar performance by the SFF LBs, that game would have finished lopsided. But again, it was the bigger BAL OL dominating the SFF DL. It did not matter if BAL was running or passing.

     




    This

     

    The game has moved to the point where QB's can either step up and still perform or escape out of the pocket thus nutralizing the edge rush. When you have LB's who can contain and an interior rush preventing a QB stepping up the edge rush becomes affective but when the edge rush is your only pressure you aren't going to be ablet o get to the QB enough times to make a difference. We really need someone next to Wilfork who can push the OL back 3-4 yrds. Even if they don't get to the QB preventing the QB from stepping up will be enough to force the ball to come out sooner.

    ATJ - there's an old saying with DB's, any secondary can look great for the first two seconds and any secondary can look horrible for every second past 4. You judge a secondary between 2-4 seconds not before or after. If the pass rush is causing the QB to panic in that first 2s then even a make shift secondary with a 30+yr old WR could look great but now secondary filled with pro-bowlers can hold forever. Pass protection starts at the line and ripples out



    No real disagreement.  Asking a secondary to cover beyond a certain point (whatever the breaking point might be; if it's 4 secs then it's 4 secs) is asking quite a bit.  On the other hand I think we would all agree that there is such a thing as a 'coverage sack.'  My only point in posting what I did was to offer that really effective pass defenses have a good pass rush and a good coverage scheme staffed by good players.  I think that was present in the 1st half of BB's tenure with the Pats but not so much more recently.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    If the 9ers hadn't been contenders Justin Smith would have been IR'ed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: If There Was Any Doubt

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I know Wozzy has been harping on this for a while, but last night seemed like more validation that edge rushers need to be complemented by an interior push when playing against good teams.  Did Aldon Smith even play last night?  He has been invisible ever since Justin Smith got injured against us and I don't think it was a coincidence.




    Good point. Bravo

     

Share