If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    Of 11 games, the Pats D only held a team under 300 yards 3 times: 1st Jets game = 166; Giants = 250 (a loss!) and KC = 230 (to a back up QB!).  Most recently they gave up 400 yards to Young in only his second start of the season.  Please, do not say garbage time as the D could have STILL stopped it, but didn't.  Where's the pride?  Given what is an obvious pattern, the Pats' opponent will pass on them until they can show they can really stop them.  Yes, the Pats have shown a stout Red Zone D, but, see if they are as successful against a Brees or Rodgers and those receiver corps.  11 games into the season, what is flumoxing to me is why there has been no defensive scheme set up to reduce the yardage the D gives up.  Better schemes to attack the QB and apply pressure.  I understand the injuries, and if that is the issue, will the return of a healthy backfield be the simple answer?  Do we continue to show patience and the frog of a defense will turn into a prince??!! The offense is our saving grace, isn't it?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    That's why WR's get paid... run good routes and seperate... and make sure the oline blocks... simple really.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mighty2012. Show mighty2012's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    The defense has been playing great for a while now, don't know what the issue is.  Yards given up, whether passing or running, really doesn't matter. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]That's why WR's get paid... run good routes and seperate... and make sure the oline blocks... simple really.
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]
    and.. that's why you get good defenders and design a pass defense to defend the routes.  Seems there are some teams who did this successfully against the Pats, so, why can't the Pats do it to others? 
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]The problem is that th fans want to see a lot of passing and points scored and so offensive holding isn't called as much.  This means the QB's have more time to throw, the DB's have to cover longer, and more passes are completed. Did anyone see the stat about how many 300 yard passing games there were in the 1970's on one of the games?  Some QB's have more in a season that there were in some season by the whole league back then.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]
    Agreed, as this has become a pass happy league with rules changes designed to increasing the passing yardage per game we are seeing.  With that said, why haven't the Pats, given some of the moves made to improve the defense in this area, reigned in this area of their D?  What is most notable, is how the opponent will convert 3rd down situations using the pass. Seems the Pats can defend well on downs 1 and 2, but, give up the most yardage, it appears, in the 3rd down effort. So strange and so frustrating to watch!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it??? : and.. that's why you get good defenders and design a pass defense to defend the routes.  Seems there are some teams who did this successfully against the Pats, so, why can't the Pats do it to others? 
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    I think it's a combo of factors: personnel, coaching, and play calling.

    The talent we have in the secondary may not be able play both man-to-man and zone well. Seems we are better at zone coverage.

    Seems like the defensive scheme is vanilla. So, my guess is that BB doesn't think he has the talent/intelligence in the secondary to do otherwise.

    Play calling - Again, vanilla. We haven't seen any of the aggressive play calling that we saw in the pre-season.

    The x-factors that affect the D are: injuries, release of players, and whether the offense has to bail out the defense or whether the defense is being called upon to bail out the team.

    Some think we have a "great" defense. I don't think so. I think  you will see both our offensive and defensive stats improve for the remainder of the regular season games.







     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    Bubba.. you may be right about how "vanilla" BB is playing it right now with the D.  We have seen glimpses of rush schemes etc that proved very effective.  So, I wonder, is BB holding back and as the season progresses he begins to "release the hounds" when ready?  Just like we saw last season, as this one progresses we see improvement, albeit slow and painful.  Hopefully we won't get a debacle like we saw in the Jets' playoff game where the D went totally against the pattern they exhibited at the end of the season.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]Of 11 games, the Pats D only held a team under 300 yards 3 times: 1st Jets game = 166; Giants = 250 (a loss!) and KC = 230 (to a back up QB!).  Most recently they gave up 400 yards to Young in only his second start of the season.  Please, do not say garbage time as the D could have STILL stopped it, but didn't.  Where's the pride?  Given what is an obvious pattern, the Pats' opponent will pass on them until they can show they can really stop them.  Yes, the Pats have shown a stout Red Zone D, but, see if they are as successful against a Brees or Rodgers and those receiver corps.  11 games into the season, what is flumoxing to me is why there has been no defensive scheme set up to reduce the yardage the D gives up.  Better schemes to attack the QB and apply pressure.  I understand the injuries, and if that is the issue, will the return of a healthy backfield be the simple answer?  Do we continue to show patience and the frog of a defense will turn into a prince??!! The offense is our saving grace, isn't it?
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    this doesn't seem like you.  Didn't we win?  Didn't the Defense hold the points down?  Stop them or hold them to 3 in the red zone?  Get crucial turnovers?  That 300 yards thing is not the stat I would want to live and die by.  3rd downs?  We are getting them off the field.  Running?  Not too bad. I feel like the defense is really starting to look good.  I'm enjoying it.  Took a while, but I'm there.  Ocho, however, is a frog.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???



    I can certainly understand the frustration of watching opposing QB's march up and down the field in the air against our secondary. It's not fun to watch, but at the same time, I don't put much thought into it until they start giving up TD's through the air on a regular basis, or we see crazy lopsided TOPs like we did in the Pittsburgh game, not allowing Tom and Company much time to get on the field. 

    It's also frustrating because I feel we have dedicated so many resources over the past 4-5 years to the secondary with not much to show for it. That's got to frustrate BB as well, because we probably burned more 1st and 2nds than anyone else over the past 4-5 years in the secondary and still rank last in yards allowed. 

    As the season progresses and down the stretch, I would really like to see us putting more pressure on the QB by sending more than 4 almost every time. This is why I am somewhat excited (tempered excitement) to see Dane Fletcher return to the field. I think he can add a dimension getting after the passer, or covering the run/pass that we don't have with Guyton, Spikes, Nink, White.   

    Listening to "In the Herd" on ESPN yesterday and today, Cowherd talked about how great the Denver defense is... He even compared them to the Pats, talking about "polar opposites". "Gee, that Denver defense is amazing, they are polar opposites to the Patriots defenense...That will be a fun game to watch, etc., etc."...All he could do was talk about Dumervil and Von Miller, blah, blah, blah..

    Being a prideful Pats fan, I called in, and had to educate Cowherd on average points allowed per game, being the only true meaningful stat, more closely correlated with wins/losses.

    Pats Defense 20.3 pts allowed per game..ranked 11th
    Denver Defense  23.6 pts allowed per game..ranked 22nd

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    It's a passing league now, everyone is going to pass on you... thank Goodell and the NFL competition committee.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]I can certainly understand the frustration of watching opposing QB's march up and down the field in the air against our secondary. It's not fun to watch, but at the same time, I don't put much thought into it until they start giving up TD's through the air on a regular basis, or we see crazy lopsided TOPs like we did in the Pittsburgh game, not allowing Tom and Company much time to get on the field.  It's also frustrating because I feel we have dedicated so many resources over the past 4-5 years to the secondary with not much to show for it. That's got to frustrate BB as well, because we probably burned more 1st and 2nds than anyone else over the past 4-5 years in the secondary and still rank last in yards allowed.  As the season progresses and down the stretch, I would really like to see us putting more pressure on the QB by sending more than 4 almost every time. This is why I am somewhat excited (tempered excitement) to see Dane Fletcher return to the field. I think he can add a dimension getting after the passer, or covering the run/pass that we don't have with Guyton, Spikes, Nink, White.    Listening to "In the Herd" on ESPN yesterday and today, Cowherd talked about how great the Denver defense is... He even compared them to the Pats, talking about "polar opposites". "Gee, that Denver defense is amazing, they are polar opposites to the Patriots defenense...That will be a fun game to watch, etc., etc."...All he could do was talk about Dumervil and Von Miller, blah, blah, blah.. Being a prideful Pats fan, I called in, and had to educate Cowherd on average points allowed per game, being the only true meaningful stat, more closely correlated with wins/losses. Pats Defense 20.3 pts allowed per game..ranked 11th Denver Defense  23.6 pts allowed per game..ranked 22nd
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    LMAO, gettem Lifer.  Ummm, what was their response?Laughing
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]   As the season progresses and down the stretch, I would really like to see us putting more pressure on the QB by sending more than 4 almost every time. This is why I am somewhat excited (tempered excitement) to see Dane Fletcher return to the field. I think he can add a dimension getting after the passer, or covering the run/pass that we don't have with Guyton, Spikes, Nink, White.  
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I would like to see them get more aggressive to0...rushing more players, work on playing man to man, chucking opposing receivers aggressively.

    I'm sure BB has read The Art of War by Sun Tzu - and won't show his hand too early if he indeed has something up his sleeve ...lol Laughing
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]Of 11 games, the Pats D only held a team under 300 yards 3 times: 1st Jets game = 166; Giants = 250 (a loss!) and KC = 230 (to a back up QB!).  Most recently they gave up 400 yards to Young in only his second start of the season.  Please, do not say garbage time as the D could have STILL stopped it, but didn't.  Where's the pride?  Given what is an obvious pattern, the Pats' opponent will pass on them until they can show they can really stop them.  Yes, the Pats have shown a stout Red Zone D, but, see if they are as successful against a Brees or Rodgers and those receiver corps.  11 games into the season, what is flumoxing to me is why there has been no defensive scheme set up to reduce the yardage the D gives up.  Better schemes to attack the QB and apply pressure.  I understand the injuries, and if that is the issue, will the return of a healthy backfield be the simple answer?  Do we continue to show patience and the frog of a defense will turn into a prince??!! The offense is our saving grace, isn't it?
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    I hear ya. I HATE the "prevent" defense, especialloy when they seem to use it in the 1st qtr. TexPat and the rest of "They aren't as bad as the yardage says" crowd cannot say, with a straight face, that watching the other team regulalry marchinjg up and down the field, especially via the air, is NOT bothersome. I'd love to be a silver dollar in their couch cushions come round 2 of the playoffs, watching Gentle Ben and the Squeelers control the clock and the football (a la their October game) while claiming they aren't bothered by it.
     
    As I said before, I'll start believing in thie D if they break the bottom 5 and show continued improvement on giving up yards. 400 yards to Vince Young is abysmal at best.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]The defense has been playing great for a while now, don't know what the issue is.  Yards given up, whether passing or running, really doesn't matter. 
    Posted by mighty2012[/QUOTE]

    ... and watching Vince "Dream Team" Young pitching for 400+ yards and watching two dropped TD's made you feel all warm and fuzzy about this D, right?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    its not like rock paper scissors.

    Just because we know they are going to throw paped doesnt mean we can just toss out scissors man.  The coaches coach, and call the plays, but the players still need to execute.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it??? : this doesn't seem like you.  Didn't we win?  ..Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]
    Yes, we are winning, which is great.  The D has been steadily improving, but, against what type of offenses?  If anything, we'd expect them to shut down a mediocre offense, but, are they really?  Yes, they are keeping the other teams from scoring, better than most teams in the league.  I think BB will whip them into shape, but, wouldn't we expect some sort of dominating performance at some time?  Look at how the O is coming back around.  When will it be the defenses turn? 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it??? : Yes, we are winning, which is great.  The D has been steadily improving, but, against what type of offenses?  If anything, we'd expect them to shut down a mediocre offense, but, are they really?  Yes, they are keeping the other teams from scoring, better than most teams in the league.  I think BB will whip them into shape, but, wouldn't we expect some sort of dominating performance at some time?  Look at how the O is coming back around.  When will it be the defenses turn? 
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    So, basically - what I hear ya sayin' is that there are still questions about having to rely on the defense to bail out an anemic offense or when the game is on the line. I still question that too....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamchampy. Show iamchampy's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    If you knew Manny Pacquio was going to punch you in the face, I'm pretty sure he would still knock you out.

    It is what it is, and the Pats are 8-3 and up by 2 games in the division. That's all I care about.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    B.B. has always said, if the players are having trouble executing regular assignments, they wont get more on their plate because if they cant do something simple, why make it harder and ask them to do x,y,z


    I agree to an extent. I dont like players having to know everyones job and all that as that can be alot, but I do think pressure defense fixes alot as then things happen quicker and no time to be thinking. This is why our past defenses were so great. Tedy, Willie, Vrabel, Rodney, Law were so experienced and smart that B.B. could tell them things and they would grasp it quickly and the more you show that you know the more leway you have. This is why Willie was able to improvise on the goal line stanceand either blitz or cover against the Colts in 03.

    Its why Rodney got so many pics in the playoffs thru film study, and why Tedy made plays when it counted calling his own number to blitz.

    We did stunts back then, we played "games" is what they call it. Meaning, you would show something pre snap and then change it afterwards, Im gonna take your man, and you blitz. A bunch of flexibilty with those guys. When you have Arrington, Molden, T.White, J.Ide be ok, S.Moore, its just not gonna happen as fast, and with new players coming in every week it will NEVER happen this year so get used to it. Just gotta pray we come up big in the redzone!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

     Maybe it's because other teams actually have good QBs and receivers? Teams know we're going to pass so why don't they always stop Brady?
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from markrahobeth. Show markrahobeth's posts

    Re: If you KNOW they are going to pass on you, why can't you defend it???

    I hate to answer a question with a question but here goes.  How many QB's post free agency and salary cap era have more than two superbowl rings?  When you have someone that talented you have to take advantage of their time with you.  Even with TB as QB chances are slim the Pats will win another Super Bowl during Brady's career.  But if it is going to happen he must have the weapons. 
    BB as a defensive coordinator was successful for taking the other teams big weapon out of the game, because he knew that was key.  With Brady, BB has the weapon and has surrounded him with guys like Gronk, Welker, Moss and Brown (throughout Brady's career).  In this era that is the best he can do. You cannot put allstar lineups out on both sides of the ball in today's NFL, something has got to give. 
     

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