Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

         Questions are being raised by Mike Reiss, and "Patriot lover" Mike Florio. My opinion is that injuries, and a drop off in overall talent surrounding him, has lessened his effectiveness: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/news/story?id=4736175 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    All of a sudden he is not elite.  These guys are getting desperate.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patswirelessfan. Show patswirelessfan's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    yeh, writing about coming back from major knee injury isn't as eye catching.

    Little disappointed by Reiss. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Brady is still Elite, but he no longer has the "clutch" factor.  There was a time when I just knew he would score on the final drive.  I think the same receivers (Welker, Moss) responsible for his great stats of late, have also diminished his clutch skills.  Bad analogy, bit it's like using a calculator and having it effect your ability to do problems in your head.  At one time, Brady had to make the receivers good.  He had to look at every receiver on every play because he simply had to.  We had no real star, so you never knew who would be open.  It kind of makes sense that if you play a season or two with a couple of folks who get the ball most of the time, you will lose some of that ability to find the other guys (lack of use).  I think the ability to look at all of his guys and throw to whoever was open was a key ingredient to what made Brady "clutch".

    As I've said before, this is why I think 2006 was Brady's best job at QB, and not 2007.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking103. Show harleyroadking103's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Well if the Pats didn't have a turnstile at RT, an ole' RG, an revolving door at C, a floodgate at LG, and rusty gate at LT maybe just maybe he would be more of a elite QB.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]Brady is still Elite, but he no longer has the "clutch" factor.  There was a time when I just knew he would score on the final drive.  I think the same receivers (Welker, Moss) responsible for his great stats of late, have also diminished his clutch skills.  Bad analogy, bit it's like using a calculator and having it effect your ability to do problems in your head.  At one time, Brady had to make the receivers good.  He had to look at every receiver on every play because he simply had to.  We had no real star, so you never knew who would be open.  It kind of makes sense that if you play a season or two with a couple of folks who get the ball most of the time, you will lose some of that ability to find the other guys (lack of use).  I think the ability to look at all of his guys and throw to whoever was open was a key ingredient to what made Brady "clutch". As I've said before, this is why I think 2006 was Brady's best job at QB, and not 2007.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]


    I have to agree with you it seems like having Moss and Welker in a way has handicapped Brady's ability to keep the defenses guessing.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox148927. Show sox148927's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    taking his recent mistakes into consideration, of course brady is still an elite qb. who is really better at this point? other than probably peyton and brees nobody is, and i still put him the same catagory with those 2 regardless of this seasons win/loss record.

    dude is still not all that far removed from basically having his knee reconstructed..
     
    he has almost zero running game week in and week out to help keep the opposing pass rush a bit more honest..

    he seems to be working with a very unimaginative playbook and vanilla gameplans, forcing him to try and call too much of the game himself at the line of scrimmage. dont wanna overstate the whole OC issue, but you gotta question how much more effective he could be if they had somebody that showed some creativity in trying to move moss around and get him open, and made more of an effort to get our TE's involved...some of that falls on brady's decision making, but IMO there is very little creativity on the part of the coaching staff with motion and formations, mixing up the looks they give defenses. 

    and the most important factor has been pass protection. he just does not have much time in the pocket, particularly as games wear on teams start blitzing more and applying pressure. defenses seem to adjust to us yet we dont seem to do well at making our own adjustments. the difference between the time henne had to throw last week and the time brady had (particularly in the second half) was ridiculous. and i dont wanna overstate vollmer's presence considering he is still a rookie, but it cant be merely coincidence that bradys best string of games this year seemed to come when vollmer was in there...it wasnt perfrect but he had more time more often, soon as it went back to light/kaczur brady started getting his a*ss kicked back there again...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB? : I have to agree with you it seems like having Moss and Welker in a way has handicapped Brady's ability to keep the defenses guessing.
    Posted by csylvia79[/QUOTE]

    That's basically what Lito said in Reiss' article today; the offense is more predictable now because they go to two guys.  In the past, they had 4 or 5 guys who might get the ball.  Neither of those 4 or 5 were stars.  The offense needs to get more folks involved with the plays, but you can see where that is hard.

    Harley mentions another good point.  The line protecting Brady isn't very good this year.  That has a domino effect.  The TE's need to help out blocking more now, which means you can't involve the TE's as much in the passing game because of that.  I guess if you trace the domino trail to the source, it could be the O-Line standing there.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EASON11. Show EASON11's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Am I happy with the way he is playing? NO.........But there are factors that have to be accounted for as well.........one is the injury he is coming off of.........two is the lack of a third wr......Galloway didn't work out and we have no third wr....we miss Jabs and Stallworth as the third wide out. my big thing is the defense!!!!They talk about him not closing out games this year...........well he has had big leads........the defense sits back and makes plays while the other teams throws every down to catch up.To  say Brady has lost something is just another jab at a guy that has been darn near perfect since he got here....he has made it so there is nowhere to go but DOWN......................get a grip Reis
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Overall he's an elite QB but not this year.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]Well if the Pats didn't have a turnstile at RT, an ole' RG, an revolving door at C, a floodgate at LG, and rusty gate at LT maybe just maybe he would be more of a elite QB.
    Posted by harleyroadking103[/QUOTE]
    qft.  Mankins and Neal I more or less trust, Koppen has his moments but get's embarrassed too often, Kazcur is just plain poor at pass protection, and Matt Light gets handled by speed.  Vollmer is solid but still a rookie. Not exactly inspiring.  There's a reason why the running game isn't so hot either, anybody care to actually look at the run blocking before bashing the running backs?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Personally, I believe that Tom needs to become inspired, again.  This is something that can come in spurts; one needs to capilise on this.  FYI: artists run into this all the time.  Once he has, he will require an offense that is unpredictable and playing well.  Let's not forget that the Pats went through this, before they added Moss et al.  Ergo, this resurgence is quite plausible.  Of course, most Pats fans would say that it's anticipated.

    Perhaps, a few tweaks in the roster (e.g. minus Thomas, Springs) in conjunction with a good draft might enable the team to acquire some missing pieces?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]Personally, I believe that Tom needs to become inspired, again.  This is something that can come in spurts; one needs to capilise on this.  FYI: artists run into this all the time.  Once he has, he will require an offense that is unpredictable and playing well.  Let's not forget that the Pats went through this, before they added Moss et al.  Ergo, this resurgence is quite plausible.  Of course, most Pats fans would say that it's anticipated. Perhaps, a few tweaks in the roster (e.g. minus Thomas, Springs) in conjunction with a good draft might enable the team to acquire some missing pieces?
    Posted by BTownExpress[/QUOTE]
    I'm not trying to start an argument, i'm just looking for evidence of what you mean by "become inspired".  When does Tom not seem "inspired"?  He plays hurt, he'll play hurt this weekend, and he is always pissed when he makes a bad play (which he's made plenty of this year).  Every week he's self critical, he's not once called out a team mate in public.  By all accounts he works harder than most people on the team year in year out.  I think you may be mistaking the lack of clutch play for "being inspired", he seems plenty inspired, just needs to cut down on some mistakes and get more help from the O Line.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    QB's don't become elite over a few games or even a season, it takes years.

    Is Rivers elite? no, not yet
    Was Roethlisberger elite after last year? not really, still not there
    Drew Brees is just becoming elite after years of great play

    It took years for Brady to become Elite and it will take years for him to lose it. 

    People in NE are looking at every pass through a microscope and evaluating him.  People everywhere else just know his numbers are good and his team is on thier way to the playoffs so thier opinion of him hasn't changed.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from John413. Show John413's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    I'm not sure you plug any other NFL QB into the Pats' offense and get better results. 

    The problem isn't Brady, it's a non-existant running game, crappy OL, and ultra-predictable offensive plan. 

    The Pats have two plays:  (1) quick pass to Welker, or (2) bomb to Moss.  That's it. 

    It would be funny if the camera zoomed in on Brady's wristband, and all you could see was: "THROW TO WELKER" and "THROW TO MOSS". 

    The Pats have morphed into the Marino/Shula Dolphins, with similar futile results. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Like everyone else on the team, he seems a tad frustrated to me.  I think he's forcing the ball too much, trying to make something out of nothing.  Plus, his accuracy hasn't been as consistently good as it used to be.  But the major problem seems to be weak pass blocking, too few dependable pass receivers, and poor play calling.  This team relies far too much on a passing game that isn't as good as it used to be.  Defenses can key on Moss and Welker and pretty much forget about everything else.  Passes to those two guys are pretty much the entire offense.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wendylee03. Show Wendylee03's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    Soo Many things to consider, Like a New Life, WIfe and now Baby.  He doesnt have just his mind on football 24/7 like he use to. He's also got 3 SB rings and recovering from injuries.....those are just the things going on in his head, then you have the front line, only 2 recievers that will catch..
    From a Team stand point, to better the team of the future he should have been packaged and traded. Casel proved he was very good in this system and he could run. Imagine the package deal of maybe 2 to 3 good defensive players that a trade would have mustard. Now he will bring nothing at the trading block and has lost his zip no matter how you look at it. Bellicheck could have set this team golden for the next 5 years but that window is now over. What we have is an elephant going to the death camp waiting his turn to die. Its going to take another 5 years and a new coach before any SuperBowls head back this way.
    Thank you for Listening,
    Charlie Weiss
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]Soo Many things to consider, Like a New Life, WIfe and now Baby.  He doesnt have just his mind on football 24/7 like he use to. He's also got 3 SB rings and recovering from injuries.....those are just the things going on in his head, then you have the front line, only 2 recievers that will catch.. From a Team stand point, to better the team of the future he should have been packaged and traded. Casel proved he was very good in this system and he could run. Imagine the package deal of maybe 2 to 3 good defensive players that a trade would have mustard. Now he will bring nothing at the trading block and has lost his zip no matter how you look at it. Bellicheck could have set this team golden for the next 5 years but that window is now over. What we have is an elephant going to the death camp waiting his turn to die. Its going to take another 5 years and a new coach before any SuperBowls head back this way. Thank you for Listening, Charlie Weiss
    Posted by Wendylee03[/QUOTE]

    wow.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moongirl. Show moongirl's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]Soo Many things to consider, Like a New Life, WIfe and now Baby.  He doesnt have just his mind on football 24/7 like he use to. He's also got 3 SB rings and recovering from injuries.....those are just the things going on in his head, then you have the front line, only 2 recievers that will catch.. From a Team stand point, to better the team of the future he should have been packaged and traded. Casel proved he was very good in this system and he could run. Imagine the package deal of maybe 2 to 3 good defensive players that a trade would have mustard. Now he will bring nothing at the trading block and has lost his zip no matter how you look at it. Bellicheck could have set this team golden for the next 5 years but that window is now over. What we have is an elephant going to the death camp waiting his turn to die. Its going to take another 5 years and a new coach before any SuperBowls head back this way. Thank you for Listening, Charlie Weiss
    Posted by Wendylee03[/QUOTE]

    You are an idiot!!!! Complete!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    apdynasty23... I second that WOW!!

    Brady has one of the greatest seasons a QB can ever have in 2007, his knee blows out 7 minutes and change into the 2008 season.  He is only back to full time play 12 games into this season and folks are basically saying he is toast? It IS NOT Brady.  Look at what has happened around him!!  His backfield hasn't been fully healthy since game #2, the O-line is a revolving door of players, no cohesiveness, outside of Welker and Moss, has any other receiver REALLY stepped up?  How many dropped passes were seen in the first half of the season?  How many times did we see a pass well within the grasp of Randy in which he, literally, made a half hearted attempt to get to while it is being intercepted by the defender who TRIED to get at the ball!  IMHO, Brady is trying to do it all by himself and making the plays for the team!  Unfortunately, there are players who are not on the same page called.. "doing ALL you can to win a game!"  I think Brady can stomach only so much of the D constantly giving up soft plays when the Pats are in the lead.  You think he felt sick to his stomach seeing the Colts score THREE TDs in the 4th quarter??  He's running the plays the bench is sending him.  It is a TEAM failure and to put it on one player, is a stretch.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    I beleive he is 2nd in the league in passing yards and top 5 in TDs. Not bad, consdiering he did not play last year and is coming off major knee surgery. Not to mention the loss of his offensive coordinator and the stale play calling. He was off earlier in the year but he seems to be back. He has thrown more picks the past few weeks then we're used to, but that could also be due to the stale play calling and the lack of protection with Vollmer out.  Yes, he is still elite, he still has his clutch facotr as well, look what he did against Buffalo when he had time to throw it in the 4th quarter.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wendylee03. Show Wendylee03's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]apdynasty23... I second that WOW!! Brady has one of the greatest seasons a QB can ever have in 2007, his knee blows out 7 minutes and change into the 2008 season.  He is only back to full time play 12 games into this season and folks are basically saying he is toast? It IS NOT Brady.  Look at what has happened around him!!  His backfield hasn't been fully healthy since game #2, the O-line is a revolving door of players, no cohesiveness, outside of Welker and Moss, has any other receiver REALLY stepped up?  How many dropped passes were seen in the first hald of the season?  How many times did we see a pass well within the grasp of Randy in which he, literally, made a half hearted attempt to get to while it is being intercepted by the defender who TRIED to get at the ball!  IMHO, Brady is trying to do it all by himself and making the plays for the team!  Unfortunately, there are players who are not on the same page called.. "doing ALL you can to win a game!"  I think Brady can stomach only so much of the D constantly giving up soft plays when the Pats are in the lead.  You think he felt sick to his stomach seeing the Colts score THREE TDs in the 4th quarter??  He's running the plays the bench is sending him.  It is a TEAM failure and to put it on one player, is a stretch.
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    My Comments are not knocking Brady, he has been great for this Team and New England, but there comes a time when there is a decesion to make and that is what is better for the team, not better for Tom Brady.
    Matt Casel showed he could run the offense, had a very good arm, and could run. Same as Brady showing he could preform when Bledsoe went down.
    So with that you have a decesion, im my humble and not worthy opinion I would have traded him and tried to stack the team to move into the future.
    This would have been the best year to trade him to get the most out of what he has acomplished, its a business decesion and you do whats best for the team.
    My second opinion is to add stripper poles for the cheerleaders.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]Brady is still Elite, but he no longer has the "clutch" factor.  There was a time when I just knew he would score on the final drive.  I think the same receivers (Welker, Moss) responsible for his great stats of late, have also diminished his clutch skills.  Bad analogy, bit it's like using a calculator and having it effect your ability to do problems in your head.  At one time, Brady had to make the receivers good.  He had to look at every receiver on every play because he simply had to.  We had no real star, so you never knew who would be open.  It kind of makes sense that if you play a season or two with a couple of folks who get the ball most of the time, you will lose some of that ability to find the other guys (lack of use).  I think the ability to look at all of his guys and throw to whoever was open was a key ingredient to what made Brady "clutch". As I've said before, this is why I think 2006 was Brady's best job at QB, and not 2007.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%.  Thats why BB needs to bring back Weis this offseason.  Spreading the ball was the key to his success.  Now the offense is strickly WW and Moss sometimes.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB? : My Comments are not knocking Brady, he has been great for this Team and New England, but there comes a time when there is a decesion to make and that is what is better for the team, not better for Tom Brady. Matt Casel showed he could run the offense, had a very good arm, and could run. Same as Brady showing he could preform when Bledsoe went down. So with that you have a decesion, im my humble and not worthy opinion I would have traded him and tried to stack the team to move into the future. This would have been the best year to trade him to get the most out of what he has acomplished, its a business decesion and you do whats best for the team. My second opinion is to add stripper poles for the cheerleaders.
    Posted by Wendylee03[/QUOTE]
    You must be talking about a different Matt Cassel than I saw.  The one I saw couldn't throw the deep ball and led the league in sacks.
    Look at the numbers, there's no comparison.

                              YDS     TD's     INT        Rate          Sack
    Brady 09(12 gms)  3638     22       10          96.9          15

    Cassel 09             1982     13        9          72.3          37*  3rd in NFL sacks

    Cassel 08             3693     21       11          89.4          47*  led league in sacks

    I like Cassel and hope he does well but he will never be an elite QB.  Brady's numbers through 3/4 or the season are better than Cassel's through the whole year, and his team was better coming off an undefeated year.

    Your second idea is brilliant though
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from KrisPatsFan. Show KrisPatsFan's posts

    Re: Is Brady No Longer an Elite QB?

    WOW - I can't even believe the writers are going there.  He has major surgery to re-construct his knee and just a little over a year from that surgery, he comes back and throw 300 yards in how manys....

    Most QBs take 3 years to come back from the surgery Brady had last year.  The problem this year is our coach/GM set up a defense (or lack of defense) with the thought that Brady would be back to his 2007 form.  If we had a defense half as good as our SuperBowl years, we would be in much better shape. 

    Why Bill decided to keep AT and get rid of Vrabel is beyond me.  And, why he forced Tedy into retirement only to sign Seau out of retirement is also beyond me.

     

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