Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    I watched last week's 49er-Panthers game on NFL rewind and came away with a slightly different opinion than what I have been hearing about the Panthers defense.

    The Panthers actually were not able to stop the 49ers from running. SF rushed only 24 times but gained 4.4 yards per carry for a total of 105 yards. Gore was gashing through the Carolina front line at a clip of 5.1 yards a pop. But they only handed the ball to him a grand total of 16 times.

    However, the passing game was a different story. Amazingly, the 49ers gained only 2.1 yards per completed pass!!!! To make it worse, they only completed 11 of 22 passes for a grand total of 46 yards! It gets even worse than that, believe it or not, they were able to muster only 22 actual pass throws out of a total of 46 pass attempts - the rest were sacks or throwaways. These are the worst passing statistics I can remember in a very long time. Now Kaepernick had a very bad game as a passer but he was helped along by a fearsome Panthers' pass rush all game long.

    On the offensive side of the ball, the Panthers were anemic at best. Newton completed 50% of his passes for 169 yards and they rushed for a mere 3.1 yards per carry for 109 yards.

    The difference was that the Panthers converted 7 of 17 3rd downs to SF's 2 of 13. That kept the chains moving a bit more for the Panthers and gave them a TOP advantage. Harbaugh's play-calling was uncharacteristically conservative as well. They were ahead 6-0 and on the Panthers' 2 yard line, I think, with a 3rd and less than a foot, and he elected to kick a field goal rather than handing it off to Gore.

    If the Patriots' offensive line can pass block better (not easy against this defense) than the 49ers did and give Brady a bit of time to throw to Amendola/Gronk/Vereen/Dobson, and Ridley and Blount can run the ball 30+ times, they have a pretty good shot of getting 24-30 points on the Panthers. From what I saw, unless Williams, Stewart and Newton run wild all day (and they could on our run-porous defense) to control the game clock and keep Brady off the field, it's hard to believe Newton's arm can answer 24+ points.

    24-14 Patriots.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     

    I watched last week's 49er-Panthers game on NFL rewind and came away with a slightly different opinion than what I have been hearing about the Panthers defense.

    The Panthers actually were not able to stop the 49ers from running. SF rushed only 24 times but gained 4.4 yards per carry for a total of 105 yards. Gore was gashing through the Carolina front line at a clip of 5.1 yards a pop. But they only handed the ball to him a grand total of 16 times.

    However, the passing game was a different story. Amazingly, the 49ers gained only 2.1 yards per completed pass!!!! To make it worse, they only completed 11 of 22 passes for a grand total of 46 yards! It gets even worse than that, believe it or not, they were able to muster only 22 actual pass throws out of a total of 46 pass attempts - the rest were sacks or throwaways. These are the worst passing statistics I can remember in a very long time. Now Kaepernick had a very bad game as a passer but he was helped along by a fearsome Panthers' pass rush all game long.

    On the offensive side of the ball, the Panthers were anemic at best. Newton completed 50% of his passes for 169 yards and they rushed for a mere 3.1 yards per carry for 109 yards.

    The difference was that the Panthers converted 7 of 17 3rd downs to SF's 2 of 13. That kept the chains moving a bit more for the Panthers and gave them a TOP advantage. Harbaugh's play-calling was uncharacteristically conservative as well. They were ahead 6-0 and on the Panthers' 2 yard line, I think, with a 3rd and less than a foot, and he elected to kick a field goal rather than handing it off to Gore.

    If the Patriots' offensive line can pass block better (not easy against this defense) than the 49ers did and give Brady a bit of time to throw to Amendola/Gronk/Vereen/Dobson, and Ridley and Blount can run the ball 30+ times, they have a pretty good shot of getting 24-30 points on the Panthers. From what I saw, unless Williams, Stewart and Newton run wild all day (and they could on our run-porous defense) to control the game clock and keep Brady off the field, it's hard to believe Newton's arm can answer 24+ points.

    24-14 Patriots.

     




     

    Excellent post! I, too, saw the rewind. The two bold sentences above seem contradictory but not. I think it was 2nd and 3rd and long where the Panthers rushes a fearsome line and that resulted in Kaepernicks bad numbers, the 49'ers gave up on Gore (run) for some reason.  On the opposite side Newton wasn't very accurate even under little pressure. He missed on accuracy on many occasions. Resulting in a low scoring game.

    If Newton continues with accuracy problems, the Pats D will pick him off. The Panthers D provided the panthers with enough support for the Panthers O to get it done real big, but failed. Yes, 24 or even 21 will get a W for Pats...... I think...

    keep up your good work.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    I do think their Dline is very good. They rotate 4 DT's and keep them fresh, and bring very good pressure from both edges. Kuechley is very, very good.  The pats can move the ball against the DB's if they give TB time to throw. Expecting both DA and Edelman to touch double digits for rcpts. Can see 2 TE sets for pass pro or Gronk not releasing for pass pro.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     

    I watched last week's 49er-Panthers game on NFL rewind and came away with a slightly different opinion than what I have been hearing about the Panthers defense.

    The Panthers actually were not able to stop the 49ers from running. SF rushed only 24 times but gained 4.4 yards per carry for a total of 105 yards. Gore was gashing through the Carolina front line at a clip of 5.1 yards a pop. But they only handed the ball to him a grand total of 16 times.

    However, the passing game was a different story. Amazingly, the 49ers gained only 2.1 yards per completed pass!!!! To make it worse, they only completed 11 of 22 passes for a grand total of 46 yards! It gets even worse than that, believe it or not, they were able to muster only 22 actual pass throws out of a total of 46 pass attempts - the rest were sacks or throwaways. These are the worst passing statistics I can remember in a very long time. Now Kaepernick had a very bad game as a passer but he was helped along by a fearsome Panthers' pass rush all game long.

    On the offensive side of the ball, the Panthers were anemic at best. Newton completed 50% of his passes for 169 yards and they rushed for a mere 3.1 yards per carry for 109 yards.

    The difference was that the Panthers converted 7 of 17 3rd downs to SF's 2 of 13. That kept the chains moving a bit more for the Panthers and gave them a TOP advantage. Harbaugh's play-calling was uncharacteristically conservative as well. They were ahead 6-0 and on the Panthers' 2 yard line, I think, with a 3rd and less than a foot, and he elected to kick a field goal rather than handing it off to Gore.

    If the Patriots' offensive line can pass block better (not easy against this defense) than the 49ers did and give Brady a bit of time to throw to Amendola/Gronk/Vereen/Dobson, and Ridley and Blount can run the ball 30+ times, they have a pretty good shot of getting 24-30 points on the Panthers. From what I saw, unless Williams, Stewart and Newton run wild all day (and they could on our run-porous defense) to control the game clock and keep Brady off the field, it's hard to believe Newton's arm can answer 24+ points.

    24-14 Patriots.

     




     

    Excellent post! I, too, saw the rewind. The two bold sentences above seem contradictory but not. I think it was 2nd and 3rd and long where the Panthers rushes a fearsome line and that resulted in Kaepernicks bad numbers, the 49'ers gave up on Gore (run) for some reason.  On the opposite side Newton wasn't very accurate even under little pressure. He missed on accuracy on many occasions. Resulting in a low scoring game.

    If Newton continues with accuracy problems, the Pats D will pick him off. The Panthers D provided the panthers with enough support for the Panthers O to get it done real big, but failed. Yes, 24 or even 21 will get a W for Pats...... I think...

    keep up your good work.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks, Palookaski. The Panthers have a great rushing, swarming defensive line but they overpursue. I don't know if they have run up against a wily veteran like Brady yet who might be able to take advantage of that, especially with Vereen back and Gronk as an extra blocker. I also think it makes them vulnerable to the run and we have a couple of horses that like to run north-south.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I do think their Dline is very good. They rotate 4 DT's and keep them fresh, and bring very good pressure from both edges. Kuechley is very, very good.  The pats can move the ball against the DB's if they give TB time to throw. Expecting both DA and Edelman to touch double digits for rcpts. Can see 2 TE sets for pass pro or Gronk not releasing for pass pro.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. It's a fast and aggressive Dline. Sometimes too aggressive. As you mention in another thread, Cannon's performance will be a key to both pass protection and run-blocking, with Volmer gone. He has looked really good so far though. Brady's quick decision-making will cause them problems, if he can get a bit of time. Big if. Otherwise, it will be a long night for passing. Still think Ridley (and Blount) gets a ton of yards, if they unleash him.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    They have the 2nd ranked rushing defense in the league (yards per game allowed), so they are pretty good at it up to this point. But opposing quartebacks have completed almost 66% of their passes against them, and those weren't TFB quality QBs. Pats will do what they need to, spread them out, use the quick passing game, maybe some screens both to WRs and RBs (especially if Vareen is back!!), and GRONK them. That will soften up the d for the run. 

    Just one note, the combined record of the teams Carolina has beaten is 18-38 (Pats is 27-40), prior to last weeks upset of the Niners, it was a pitiful 12-35. I know you have to play who is on your schedule, but thats pretty weak...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    No question the Carolina D-line is formidable but not imprenetrable as neinmd so eloquently outlined.  I see heavy doses of Brady short and midrange passes with selective running plays (misdirection anyone?).  On the Pats D side containing the run plus good pressure on Newton will be key to holding down the Carolina scoring.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    Does anyone remember the 2006 season the Pat's went into minnesota on a Monday night against one of the best front 7's at the time.

    I believe they came out 5 wide stretched the D and threw like 40 times and blew ot the Vikings.

    Perhaps to negate the effect the carolina front 7 they spread carolina out and force them to play in their sub packages.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I watched last week's 49er-Panthers game on NFL rewind and came away with a slightly different opinion than what I have been hearing about the Panthers defense.

    The Panthers actually were not able to stop the 49ers from running. SF rushed only 24 times but gained 4.4 yards per carry for a total of 105 yards. Gore was gashing through the Carolina front line at a clip of 5.1 yards a pop. But they only handed the ball to him a grand total of 16 times.

    However, the passing game was a different story. Amazingly, the 49ers gained only 2.1 yards per completed pass!!!! To make it worse, they only completed 11 of 22 passes for a grand total of 46 yards! It gets even worse than that, believe it or not, they were able to muster only 22 actual pass throws out of a total of 46 pass attempts - the rest were sacks or throwaways. These are the worst passing statistics I can remember in a very long time. Now Kaepernick had a very bad game as a passer but he was helped along by a fearsome Panthers' pass rush all game long.

    On the offensive side of the ball, the Panthers were anemic at best. Newton completed 50% of his passes for 169 yards and they rushed for a mere 3.1 yards per carry for 109 yards.

    The difference was that the Panthers converted 7 of 17 3rd downs to SF's 2 of 13. That kept the chains moving a bit more for the Panthers and gave them a TOP advantage. Harbaugh's play-calling was uncharacteristically conservative as well. They were ahead 6-0 and on the Panthers' 2 yard line, I think, with a 3rd and less than a foot, and he elected to kick a field goal rather than handing it off to Gore.

    If the Patriots' offensive line can pass block better (not easy against this defense) than the 49ers did and give Brady a bit of time to throw to Amendola/Gronk/Vereen/Dobson, and Ridley and Blount can run the ball 30+ times, they have a pretty good shot of getting 24-30 points on the Panthers. From what I saw, unless Williams, Stewart and Newton run wild all day (and they could on our run-porous defense) to control the game clock and keep Brady off the field, it's hard to believe Newton's arm can answer 24+ points.

    24-14 Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]

    Game plans are very different. 

    It's entirely likely, as well, that the Panthers chose to play a defense that prevented SF from getting deeper/quicker scores, no?

    Carolina has almost played a "Who is who?" of the best runners the NFL has to offer: Peterson, Lynch, Gore, Stacey, and C.J. Spiller. 

    That is an impressive group ... and they've allowed one 100 yard rusher, and have the second lowest yards per game in the entire NFL.

    I'd say, my take, they are for real. 

    Even if they don't turn into a defensive dynasty, they are playing at a very high level right now. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    The traditional metrics (ypc and ypg) say yes.  In addition run defense imo is about not allowing the opponent to gain consistent yardage and being able to make stops when you have to.  Gore's ypc was nice, but he basically had a few big runs and then was stuffed on all of his other carries.  Plus they got stuffed in some critical short yardage situations.  The fact that they took the field goal instead of going for it on 4th early in the game speaks volumes.  Consider that the 9ers have one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL I'd say it's pretty clear the run defense in Carolina is legit.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Does anyone remember the 2006 season the Pat's went into minnesota on a Monday night against one of the best front 7's at the time.

    I believe they came out 5 wide stretched the D and threw like 40 times and blew ot the Vikings.

    Perhaps to negate the effect the carolina front 7 they spread carolina out and force them to play in their sub packages.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That is actually a good game plan. NE has also done that against Texas, Pittsburgh, the Ravens, and other impressive front seven teams. 

    But it can only work if the team can't get interior pressure. 

    NE has historically performed well against teams with good ends, and good blitz packages ... but fared worse against teams with strong tackles that are great interior rushers: like Ngata, and the like.

    Star Lotulelei is a great run stopper, but he is no pass rusher ... at least not from what I've seen.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     In addition run defense imo is about not allowing the opponent to gain consistent yardage and being able to make stops when you have to. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Ditto. 

    YPC is really meaningless is small samples too. 

    A great run defense stops situational running. A great running team succeeds at situational running. 

    The measure of running play on offense or defense is ultimately how you perform when you know the other team is running and have to stop them. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     In addition run defense imo is about not allowing the opponent to gain consistent yardage and being able to make stops when you have to. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Ditto. 

    YPC is really meaningless is small samples too. 

    A great run defense stops situational running. A great running team succeeds at situational running. 

    The measure of running play on offense or defense is ultimately how you perform when you know the other team is running and have to stop them. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree that the sample is as small as a single game. However, all my observations are from watching one game from last week. I am not claiming they are representative of the Panthers' play all season long.

    I will stick to my observations, however, from that one game since it's the most recent sample. My eyes told me the same thing that the stats from that game said. Gore was able to get chunks of yards each time he got the ball. He had 2 negative yardage plays of -1 yards each. The rest mostly varied between 3 and 5 yards with a couple of shorter and a couple of longer runs. Meanwhile, the passing game was a big fat ZERO from start to finish. Now this game may have been an outlier and I can't really speak to that since I did not watch the previous games.

    What I will say confidently about this one game is that the Panthers' pass defense (mostly due to inside pressure from the Dline) was immense, their run defense was average. Their run offense looked real with multiple rushing threats, their pass offense was average.

    If the Patriots can protect Brady and give him time, the good guys should be able to unleash a more balanced attack on the Panthers than the 49er's were able to muster. They have a chance to score 3-4 touchdowns, if they do that. Under that circumstance, without a potent passing attack, the Panthers will have a tough time making up that many points against the Patriots unless their running attack goes nutso crazy, which I guess is possible but improbable against a BB coached defense.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    [/QUOTE]


    Game plans are very different. 

    It's entirely likely, as well, that the Panthers chose to play a defense that prevented SF from getting deeper/quicker scores, no?

    Carolina has almost played a "Who is who?" of the best runners the NFL has to offer: Peterson, Lynch, Gore, Stacey, and C.J. Spiller. 

    That is an impressive group ... and they've allowed one 100 yard rusher, and have the second lowest yards per game in the entire NFL.

    I'd say, my take, they are for real. 

    Even if they don't turn into a defensive dynasty, they are playing at a very high level right now. 

    [/QUOTE]

    What you say, Z, is entirely possible. What I saw was just continuous and unrelenting front-line pressure on Kaepernick from the middle and both edges. He does not have the deftness of touch to release the running backs on short pass plays, except one time when he shoveled it out to Gore who promptly ran for 10 yards. Vereen should be a great 3rd option outlet for Brady, if he plays. That will discourage the "once more into the breach" mentality for the front 6 or 7 defensive guys.

    One thing I will agree with, though, is that the Panthers' defense is real.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Does anyone remember the 2006 season the Pat's went into minnesota on a Monday night against one of the best front 7's at the time.

    I believe they came out 5 wide stretched the D and threw like 40 times and blew ot the Vikings.

    Perhaps to negate the effect the carolina front 7 they spread carolina out and force them to play in their sub packages.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Also maybe we will see more hurry up to get them gassed?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I watched last week's 49er-Panthers game on NFL rewind and came away with a slightly different opinion than what I have been hearing about the Panthers defense.

    The Panthers actually were not able to stop the 49ers from running. SF rushed only 24 times but gained 4.4 yards per carry for a total of 105 yards. Gore was gashing through the Carolina front line at a clip of 5.1 yards a pop. But they only handed the ball to him a grand total of 16 times.

    However, the passing game was a different story. Amazingly, the 49ers gained only 2.1 yards per completed pass!!!! To make it worse, they only completed 11 of 22 passes for a grand total of 46 yards! It gets even worse than that, believe it or not, they were able to muster only 22 actual pass throws out of a total of 46 pass attempts - the rest were sacks or throwaways. These are the worst passing statistics I can remember in a very long time. Now Kaepernick had a very bad game as a passer but he was helped along by a fearsome Panthers' pass rush all game long.

    On the offensive side of the ball, the Panthers were anemic at best. Newton completed 50% of his passes for 169 yards and they rushed for a mere 3.1 yards per carry for 109 yards.

    The difference was that the Panthers converted 7 of 17 3rd downs to SF's 2 of 13. That kept the chains moving a bit more for the Panthers and gave them a TOP advantage. Harbaugh's play-calling was uncharacteristically conservative as well. They were ahead 6-0 and on the Panthers' 2 yard line, I think, with a 3rd and less than a foot, and he elected to kick a field goal rather than handing it off to Gore.

    If the Patriots' offensive line can pass block better (not easy against this defense) than the 49ers did and give Brady a bit of time to throw to Amendola/Gronk/Vereen/Dobson, and Ridley and Blount can run the ball 30+ times, they have a pretty good shot of getting 24-30 points on the Panthers. From what I saw, unless Williams, Stewart and Newton run wild all day (and they could on our run-porous defense) to control the game clock and keep Brady off the field, it's hard to believe Newton's arm can answer 24+ points.

    24-14 Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]


    Good post neinmds.

    I watched the 49'ers game and I was totally impressed by the Panthers defense. The dline put a lot of pressure on Kaepernick and allowed only 91 passing yards and 16 rushing yards, far below his average.  Yes, the Panthers allowed 105 yards rushing for the game but the 49'ers were averaging 153 yards per game before facing the Panthers.  So yeah, I was pretty impressed by the Panthers defense.

    It is going to be a very fun and interesting game to watch.  The Olin better be ready.  Lots of quick slants will be key especially with Vereen out of the back field.  Just what the Patriots and TFB are very good at doing.

    Patriots 27, Panthers 20.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Does anyone remember the 2006 season the Pat's went into minnesota on a Monday night against one of the best front 7's at the time.

    I believe they came out 5 wide stretched the D and threw like 40 times and blew ot the Vikings.

    Perhaps to negate the effect the carolina front 7 they spread carolina out and force them to play in their sub packages.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Also maybe we will see more hurry up to get them gassed?

    [/QUOTE]


    That's a great observation. The Panthers rotate their Dline more than any other team I have seen this year. If you keep the same guys on the field for a long series of plays, they are going to not have the ability to have fresh legs on the pass rush.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    Not as impressive as the Jets run D.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Does anyone remember the 2006 season the Pat's went into minnesota on a Monday night against one of the best front 7's at the time.

    I believe they came out 5 wide stretched the D and threw like 40 times and blew ot the Vikings.

    Perhaps to negate the effect the carolina front 7 they spread carolina out and force them to play in their sub packages.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Dont forget they ran it the very 1st play of the game and got stuffed for negative yardage. They THEN said "Ok, you guys ARE pretty good, you got that" and proceeded to pass like EVERY play the rest of the game and Brad carved them up. Classic game of not beating your head into a wall. They had the # 1 ranked Rush D but werent that great at rushing the passer outside of Kevin WIlliams.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     In addition run defense imo is about not allowing the opponent to gain consistent yardage and being able to make stops when you have to. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Ditto. 

    YPC is really meaningless is small samples too. 

    A great run defense stops situational running. A great running team succeeds at situational running. 

    The measure of running play on offense or defense is ultimately how you perform when you know the other team is running and have to stop them. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The 2nd thing has been a problem for us since Dillon left. Im hoping Blount can help with that come playoff time. So far he has shown the ability to get yards in the 4th quarter while trying to kill clock but can he do it vs the better run teams? 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The traditional metrics (ypc and ypg) say yes.  In addition run defense imo is about not allowing the opponent to gain consistent yardage and being able to make stops when you have to.  Gore's ypc was nice, but he basically had a few big runs and then was stuffed on all of his other carries.  Plus they got stuffed in some critical short yardage situations.  The fact that they took the field goal instead of going for it on 4th early in the game speaks volumes.  Consider that the 9ers have one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL I'd say it's pretty clear the run defense in Carolina is legit.

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree. I actually think consistent yardage is an idealized expectation that does not normally happen. Even the Seahawks' Lynch does not get that.

    Secondly, it is the long runs that make Ds play honest. That was the complaint with BJGE. He give you consistent 3+ yards but will not make the D pay dearly for not playing honest.

    Here is a run down of Gore's runs

    1 and 10: +1

    1 and 10: +11

    2 and 10: +17

    1 and 10: +3

    3 and 2: -1

    2ND

    2 and 14: +5

    1 and 10: +3

    2 and 24: +1

    1 and 10: +13

    3 and 5: +4

    HALF

    1 and 10: +14

    1 and 5: +4

    4TH

    1 and 10: +3

    2 and 10: 0

    SFF's run game, especially with Gore was as good any team could hope for. CAR was not having  success defending against Gore. The real reason they lost was a combination of underperformance by the QB, and penalties at the worst of times.

    They could've given CAR more of Gore.

    Also, are you imlying that the teams that do not go for it on 4th and 3 at the opponent's 34 is becasue they are not confident in their run game? If that's not what you are implying, what are you implying on that last bolded portion of your post?

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    [/QUOTE]


    Dont forget they ran it the very 1st play of the game and got stuffed for negative yardage. They THEN said "Ok, you guys ARE pretty good, you got that" and proceeded to pass like EVERY play the rest of the game and Brad carved them up. Classic game of not beating your head into a wall. They had the # 1 ranked Rush D but werent that great at rushing the passer outside of Kevin WIlliams.

    [/QUOTE]


    I had to go back to the play-by-play of that game to remind myself of the details. Kudos to those that remembered it. Interesting that the Pats ran for 85 yards with four different guys (Heath Evans, Maroney, Kevin Faulk and Corey Dillon) each getting a long run of 10+ yards at critical junctures. 372 passing yards to 10 different receivers also caught my attention. Wow!

    The defense also held the Vikes to 45 yards rushing and intercepted Brad Johnson 3 times.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    Dont forget they ran it the very 1st play of the game and got stuffed for negative yardage. They THEN said "Ok, you guys ARE pretty good, you got that" and proceeded to pass like EVERY play the rest of the game and Brad carved them up. Classic game of not beating your head into a wall. They had the # 1 ranked Rush D but werent that great at rushing the passer outside of Kevin WIlliams.

    [/QUOTE]


    I had to go back to the play-by-play of that game to remind myself of the details. Kudos to those that remembered it. Interesting that the Pats ran for 85 yards with four different guys (Heath Evans, Maroney, Kevin Faulk and Corey Dillon) each getting a long run of 10+ yards at critical junctures. 372 passing yards to 10 different receivers also caught my attention. Wow!

    The defense also held the Vikes to 45 yards rushing and intercepted Brad Johnson 3 times.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yea i think it was 28-0 and they ran the ball at the end with the lead.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    [/QUOTE]


    I disagree. I actually think consistent yardage is an idealized expectation that does not normally happen. Even the Seahawks' Lynch does not get that.

    Secondly, it is the long runs that make Ds play honest. That was the complaint with BJGE. He give you consistent 3+ yards but will not make the D pay dearly for not playing honest.

    Here is a run down of Gore's runs

    1 and 10: +1

    1 and 10: +11

    2 and 10: +17

    1 and 10: +3

    3 and 2: -1

    2ND

    2 and 14: +5

    1 and 10: +3

    2 and 24: +1

    1 and 10: +13

    3 and 5: +4

    HALF

    1 and 10: +14

    1 and 5: +4

    4TH

    1 and 10: +3

    2 and 10: 0

    SFF's run game, especially with Gore was as good any team could hope for. CAR was not having  success defending against Gore. The real reason they lost was a combination of underperformance by the QB, and penalties at the worst of times.

    They could've given CAR more of Gore.

    Also, are you imlying that the teams that do not go for it on 4th and 3 at the opponent's 34 is becasue they are not confident in their run game? If that's not what you are implying, what are you implying on that last bolded portion of your post?

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree and made that same point earlier. Gore was very consistent and did not seem very troubled at all by the Panthers' run defense, partly because it was jail break for the defensive line every damn time trying to get to Kaerpernick. Hope they try that with Brady. Gore should have gotten the ball at least 10 more times, including the 4th and a foot at the Panthers' 2 yard line. 7 points instead of 3 would have been a whole different ballgame.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Is the Panthers run defense really all that impressive?

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The traditional metrics (ypc and ypg) say yes.  In addition run defense imo is about not allowing the opponent to gain consistent yardage and being able to make stops when you have to.  Gore's ypc was nice, but he basically had a few big runs and then was stuffed on all of his other carries.  Plus they got stuffed in some critical short yardage situations.  The fact that they took the field goal instead of going for it on 4th early in the game speaks volumes.  Consider that the 9ers have one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL I'd say it's pretty clear the run defense in Carolina is legit.

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree. I actually think consistent yardage is an idealized expectation that does not normally happen. Even the Seahawks' Lynch does not get that.

    Secondly, it is the long runs that make Ds play honest. That was the complaint with BJGE. He give you consistent 3+ yards but will not make the D pay dearly for not playing honest.

    Here is a run down of Gore's runs

    1 and 10: +1

    1 and 10: +11

    2 and 10: +17

    1 and 10: +3

    3 and 2: -1

    2ND

    2 and 14: +5

    1 and 10: +3

    2 and 24: +1

    1 and 10: +13

    3 and 5: +4

    HALF

    1 and 10: +14

    1 and 5: +4

    4TH

    1 and 10: +3

    2 and 10: 0

    SFF's run game, especially with Gore was as good any team could hope for. CAR was not having  success defending against Gore. The real reason they lost was a combination of underperformance by the QB, and penalties at the worst of times.

    They could've given CAR more of Gore.

    Also, are you imlying that the teams that do not go for it on 4th and 3 at the opponent's 34 is becasue they are not confident in their run game? If that's not what you are implying, what are you implying on that last bolded portion of your post?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, thats what I saw while watching. Both teams played it low key cuz they didnt want to turn it over and knew it wouldnt take a high score to win. I do think the Panthers run D is legit but I also agree they didnt shut down Gore. He had a few nice runs, some for no gain, some normal gains. A typical day for a feature back

     

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