It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    That's definitely a huge consideration, but when Edelman has played he's been very productive. There's no telling if he can become the equal of Welker unless he gains experience.

    Another good way to look at it is comparing the situation to the Faulk/Woodhead situation. What was the sentiment when Faulk was hurt? They were in trouble. But guess what? A faster and younger version of Faulk that also had good intangibles developed in Woodhead. My point is that you can say 'player X is irreplaceable and player Y certainly couldn't step in' but you don't know that. Based on games where Julian has gotten good PT he's been very impressive, while he was one of the few patriots who played well in both of the past two postseason games. 

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Edelman has been so inconsistent and hurt his whole career its amazing people want to replace Welker with him.  As for Hernadez he will either be in the TE or Wide-out spots.  I don't see him in the slot alot. 
    Posted by Patsman2[/QUOTE]
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Totally agree. Welker is still extremely good in his role and he'll be here unless BB has an extremely good reason. That being said, I could see it happening since BB has been known to trade great players for business reasons. 

    And c'mon killa! He didn't drop EVERY ball thrown his way. He obviously didn't play well when called upon unless he was playing the whole game, but you can also say Welker didn't have his best year and had many drops (more than usual).

    I'm sure Welker will be around but it's never a bad thing to debate (especially when BB makes these trades no one expects).

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]I like Edelman but im not ready to put all the Pats eggs in his basket. He has not shown himself to be consistent at all. He droped every ball thrown his way last year and really only looked good on punt returns. I still have hope for him but not enough to trade Welker. I also still have faith that a guy like Brandon Tate can develop and stretch the field even though most are writing him off. Listen maybe you are right and Welker will lose a step in a few years but my only point is that even if he does he is still a very good productive player. Like Troy Brown he will still be able to bring something to the fight at an old age. Brown became a role player and was clutch late into his 30's and I think Welker can do the same thing. I just dont think you can replace him with anyone, he is the only person right now in the NFL who does what he does and its perfect for what the Pats do so why mess with it? The Pats lost 3 games to 2 teams this year, the Jets and the f*cking Browns for crying out loud lol so I really dont think they need to tinker too much with what the got. Maybe draft a few guys on D and get a big play downfield WR if they dont have faith in Tate but other then that I would love for them to keep as many players from last year as they can.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    JE had 3-72 with a punt return TD against the phins in 2011, 8-98 against the jets last year, and 10-103 against the texans last year. 

    Clearly the guy needs to play a lot to be productive, but when he does play he produces. I just think the combo of Welker and Hernandez took the opportunities away from JE. It's a good problem to have TOO many options, but I think this is what killed JE's production. 

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Edelmen had like what 13 catches in the entire season? And he was healthy? Im just saying we all thought he was going to blow up this year and instead he took a step back which is never good. And if what Welker had is considered a down year then I hope we have like 3 guys on the roster who have the type of year he had last season next season lol Welker came back and still had like 85 receptions or whatever it was. Give the guy a break lol And I agree it wont happen but its still a fun conversation.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I agree, but sometimes BB likes to play vets over young guys. For instance, how did Kaczur ever play 1 snap over Vollmer? Why is Koppen still starting after several years of worse play? 

    And it also happens that sometimes people need to get hurt for their backups to shine (Brady, Woodhead). It'll play out next year (hopefully!).

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]It could have been but IMO good players make it impossible for the coach to sit them down. Good players get all they can out of their opportunity's and force the head coach to play them and JE just didnt do well with his opportunity's and so BB didnt feel he was losing anything by sitting him down. If JE wants more balls thrown his way he needs to earn that right.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Your about 3-4 years too early on Welker. The man is still the best slot WR in the league, he will remain the best slot WR in the league for atleast another 3 years( baring any serious injury)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    You could be right. I'm just assuming all the hits will have a big effect on welker a little earlier than usual. 


    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Your about 3-4 years too early on Welker. The man is still the best slot WR in the league, he will remain the best slot WR in the league for atleast another 3 years( baring any serious injury)
    Posted by GadisRKO[/QUOTE]
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I think people are overstating Welkers value.  Has he been great and caught 100 balls every year except for last, Yes, but consider this.   Troy Brown didnt play significant minutes until the year 2000. He was used just as a returner and 3rd down slot reciever before then and was very good. His body didnt wear that much, and its between 2001-2004 that his body took the most punishmemt.  Brown had 101 catches in a year when i never thought he could.

    Ok, so my point is, in this offense its not hard to cacth 100 balls when you get so many chances.  I understand he is a tough SOB who goes over the middle, but thats exactly why he could be out of football any week.  Tell me besides him having great hands and running good routes inside, does he do.  He cant go deep.  He is not a redzone threat, and doenst have break away speed.  You guys want to pay him top money to see him further decline?

    Edleman was not productive last year because he was not used due to a healthy Wes and the team implementing more 2 and 3 TE sets and running more...so where was Edleman to play?

    He simply wasnt needed and I think in that role he can be distracted, but if given the job, I have no dounbt he would succeed, just needs to stay healthy, and you still got Branch., Woodhead, and posibbly a draft pick that can play slot too....Lets not make it like Wes is superman, he was just Toms binky and put up massive catch numbers that probably half were at the line of scrimmage, and his TD's numbers are pedestrian.   What am I missing Killa!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    How can you overrate his value when he came for a 2nd and a 7th isn't expensive and is an extension of the running game?

    He's arguably been the most productive WR in the NFL the last 4 years as a slot WR.

    I don't care if he isn't putting up 10+ TDs per year. His value on 3rd downs or making a clutch catch is as good as any WR in the league, not to mention teams have to account for him/make moves to cover him.

    Sometimes he takes on a double team, usually in the middle of the field, and he stil can get open.

    I do agree Edelman could do the job, but he's not as good as Welker.  You'd just lose the dynamic of what Welker brings and the chemistry he and Brady have.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    He is not a redzone threat

    I disagree. He might not be a jump ball king but inside the 20 ALL teams have to account for him. Honestly in the clutch he'd be the one that I threw the ball to.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Thats nice if he can get open....works most of the time, but against the Jets when they decided to drop 7 and 8 guys.,..where was Wes!  thank you

    You can keep dinking and dunkin to Wes and have him take a beating for 5 yards but IMO, its time to take it further...lets admit, Wes hasnt had the same kind of YAC as when he first got here, and all im saying is I watch every NFl team, so I know whats out there.  Wes isnt the 1st and only guy to do this...and just like Wayne Chrebet his career could end out of nowhere due to all those hits just for a measly 5 yards...

    BBreign, the 2nd and 7th is what got him here but I just dont get why people think his deal is too low, cuz when they signed him I was surprised he got that money...pretty good for a guy nobody wanted...so all im saying if you think he is underpaid, then you would like him to make more in the next 3 years than he did the last 3 and I think that would be a mistake, as his best days are probably behind him. 

    So far as the redzone threat...dont make me laugh..  aint nobody paying attention to Wes between the 10 yard line and goal line with guys like Gronk on the team...If you mean Wes sometimes runs between 2 LB's in a zone , then yeah, he is double covered sometimes...but we can all agree to disagree. but dont skew the facts..


    I could name a few guys I would rather pay for the next 4 years who are more dynamic, like D.Bess, S.Johnson(10 td's), J.Macklin(10tds) L.Moore...I mean they are more dynamice...Hell, even Austin Collie managed 8 TD's and didnt play that much...if they didnt use him as their running game as well as screens his numbers would suffer in another offense...and he gives you nothing on the outside. and im not hating, cuz I love wes, just pointing out he is not the best option longterm if you gonna spend, nor is it smart.

    Its Brady that makes him look so good, not the other way around...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Well, I disagree. He came back and had a good year after blowing out his leg the January prior.

    He's 30 in May.  He's got 3 prime years left.  I'd quietly offer him a 3 year extension and see if he takes it.
     
    [Wes Welker called his 2010 season "disappointing" and suggested that he's undeserving of a contract extension.
    "I think everybody wants a new deal," said Welker, "but I wouldn't say anything I did this past year would warrant one or anything like that."]

    Call his bluff and try to get him one while the getting is good (under market).

    $100, he comes back this year better than last year.

    He wasn't expected to be as good as he had been in years pas because of trhe injury.  Him even being out there in Septs was incredible for a player who relies on cutting and running.

    Also, the Jets game is one game where many things could have gone better.

    Shame on Bill O'Brien for not running more or trying to stay steps ahead of Rexie-poo's gamecalling.

    Welker is one link in the chain just like other players are in the big picture, but he's clearly still in his prime even after the injury.  He's very unique.

    Like I said, if he starts getting crazy with thr $$, you might have to deal him off, with Edelman assuming the role.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I think I agree with most of your points and have the same perspective in thinking Welker's skills could disappear earlier than usual. That being said, it's tough to bet against him after all he's overcome. In the end I think Edelman might be a better option given some experience, but he also might not pan out. I'd be willing to risk trading welker for a 2nd or 3rd bc they have guys like Hernandez who would also thrive in the short to intermediate role and provide better YAC. 

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Thats nice if he can get open....works most of the time, but against the Jets when they decided to drop 7 and 8 guys.,..where was Wes!  thank you You can keep dinking and dunkin to Wes and have him take a beating for 5 yards but IMO, its time to take it further...lets admit, Wes hasnt had the same kind of YAC as when he first got here, and all im saying is I watch every NFl team, so I know whats out there.  Wes isnt the 1st and only guy to do this...and just like Wayne Chrebet his career could end out of nowhere due to all those hits just for a measly 5 yards... BBreign, the 2nd and 7th is what got him here but I just dont get why people think his deal is too low, cuz when they signed him I was surprised he got that money...pretty good for a guy nobody wanted...so all im saying if you think he is underpaid, then you would like him to make more in the next 3 years than he did the last 3 and I think that would be a mistake, as his best days are probably behind him.  So far as the redzone threat...dont make me laugh..  aint nobody paying attention to Wes between the 10 yard line and goal line with guys like Gronk on the team...If you mean Wes sometimes runs between 2 LB's in a zone , then yeah, he is double covered sometimes...but we can all agree to disagree. but dont skew the facts.. I could name a few guys I would rather pay for the next 4 years who are more dynamic, like D.Bess, S.Johnson(10 td's), J.Macklin(10tds) L.Moore...I mean they are more dynamice...Hell, even Austin Collie managed 8 TD's and didnt play that much...if they didnt use him as their running game as well as screens his numbers would suffer in another offense...and he gives you nothing on the outside. and im not hating, cuz I love wes, just pointing out he is not the best option longterm if you gonna spend, nor is it smart. Its Brady that makes him look so good, not the other way around...
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Thats Fair BB.

    I am in no way trying to discredit him or what hes done. and the overvalue thing was something I  meant going forward.  He has been every bit worth the contract he signed, but i worry about giving him a raise and besides all that, as good as he is,  just feel its time for a change, due to 1.) teams looking for him over the middle which is where u will most likely find him  2.)  Lets explore an option of someone more explosive, capable of playing outside if necessary and can break away a long one.  I think our offense is more predictable with him than if we really changed to a 2 TE set, with traditional X and Z recievers that can play possesion football as well as stretch the field...and I feel as long as TOm has his binky over the middle, we wont progress much more...just My humble opinion, but although we scored a lot last year I thnk the spread is getting old and stale...We need to get Tom back under center and really run the ball with a feature back and stop throwing those bubble screens at the lOS
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I like the idea of calling his bluff. I wondered if they offered him an extension?


    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Well, I disagree. He came back and had a good year after blowing out his leg the January prior. He's 30 in May.  He's got 3 prime years left.  I'd quietly offer him a 3 year extension and see if he takes it.   [Wes Welker called his 2010 season "disappointing" and suggested that he's undeserving of a contract extension. "I think everybody wants a new deal," said Welker, "but I wouldn't say anything I did this past year would warrant one or anything like that."] Call his bluff and try to get him one while the getting is good (under market). $100, he comes back this year better than last year. He wasn't expected to be as good as he had been in years pas because of trhe injury.  Him even being out there in Septs was incredible for a player who relies on cutting and running. Also, the Jets game is one game where many things could have gone better. Shame on Bill O'Brien for not running more or trying to stay steps ahead of Rexie-poo's gamecalling. Welker is one link in the chain just like other players are in the big picture, but he's clearly still in his prime even after the injury.  He's very unique. Like I said, if he starts getting crazy with thr $$, you might have to deal him off, with Edelman assuming the role.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Also, in regards to the bubble screens being an extension of the running game, that may be true but I dont believe its the right thing to do

    I recall in SB 42 that we tried to rely on the bubble screens to Wes to offset the rush of the Giants, and I dont think not even one time it worked.  The Giants were all over it.  Simple as spotting a formation and putting 2 guys there.

    Now I will explain what i mean.  You can say the bubble screen is an extension of the running game, but it is really?

    You are relying on a near perfect pass across the line of scrimmage(risking a fumble if not caught)  and expect the other reciever to block one CB if not 2, or the WR could be singled up and just have to make a man miss one on one.

    The defender is usually running up full speed while the pass is in the air, and will either wiff or blow up the reciever, a 50/50 play with more risk(fumble) than reward(5 to 7 yards) 

    NOW, if you really want to run the ball, you can hand it off the big buy in the backfield standing behind the QB, yeah thats his job.  A very low risk handoff into the belly of the back, and then he has atleast 5 guys blocking and leading the way to get your 3 or 4 yards with the possibility for more, depending on how big the hole, if your WR's block, etc

    To me, I'm tired of the "extension of the running"  , How about lining up and overpowering the defenders on the other side?!  Thats what the running game is about and how you wear teams down.  Whats tiring or intimidating about a screen to a WR out on an island???   Thats right,,,its not too scary. This is another reason I wouldnt mind a different guy in here to change the philosophy.  A guy who can posses the ball, run most routes and block for the runner.

    I think people underestimate the value of the balanced attack cuz we see # 12 look magnificent slinging the ball around, but in January you better be packing a run game and a defense.  Now I know our "D" wasnt that great minus the turnovers, but our run game was suitable enough but we ignored it and payed for it.  How many years do we have to watch this spread em out, light up the regular season, one and done playoff team before we demand a change???
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I'd take Jordan Shippley if it was possible if Welker left.  That guy is going to be a player.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Coolguy55220. Show Coolguy55220's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    It doesnt make any sense. I think the pats take care of players like welker. Throw out all ur business sense because i guarantee he'll get a contract.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gulo. Show Gulo's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    this is the dumbest thing ive ever read.  Please leave this forum and never come back. NEVER.  LEAVE NOW
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]How about lining up and overpowering the defenders on the other side?!  
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    Oh I love that!  Yes!  The one thing I noticed most maybe about the Jets game was how trying to run from a spread formation just wasn't working for the Pats. We were spreading their defense and then trying to send Woodhead into the spaces, but the Jets' defenders were closing on the runner very quickly--and the Pats had no blockers on those defenders.  It was all "spread them out" and try to gain yards in the spaces between the defenders.  What would have happened if we could have put bodies on the Jets defenders and tried to blow them off the ball?  Can the Pats even play that kind of offense anymore?  We did it a little with BJGE, but it's become such a small part of the game plan.  Is our O-line physical enough?  Do we have the backs (I'm not sure BJGE is the answer)? 

    I'd love to see us pick up a fullback. Not that I think a fullback will ever be a big part of the offense.  But picking up one would show a commitment to get more physical in the running game--or at least to have that option when the spread formations stop working. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Peduncle72. Show Peduncle72's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Well, it wouldent be the first time I was suprised by the front office. If it happens I know where the idea came from...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Welker stays. Rightly so.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Prolate, they can absolutely get phsyical, but they choose rather to get cute too often...all we can hope is that B.B. and the gang grow tired of being embarresed in big games and get the priorities in line again by becoming that phsyical smashmouth team.  The reason that #12 is all beat up every postseason, cuz he throws about 40 times a game during the season and mostly from the gun.  How about winning games running the football and maybe you can have a healthy Brady have a good game in case they want to shut down the run, he can perform , instead of always having a bad foot or shoulder...

    It worked back in the day, but since Brady is a stud now, they dont want to waste his talents by making him a game manager...hmmm, seems that once we took on that "Peyton Manning" philosophy we have become perennial playoff chokers with our a ss backwards way of offense!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]I like the idea of calling his bluff. I wondered if they offered him an extension? In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of) :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    I doubt it.  Hard to say. If they did and it was rejected, he would certainly look hypocritical, wouldn't he?

    I bet he feels he can have a great 2011 and increase his open market value.

    I can see that from his perspective as well. That doesn't help the Pats position, though.

    If the CBA is settled sometime this summer, I would offer him a fair deal and see what he does.

    3 years with a team option (with incentives) is as high as I would go.

    People keep mentioning Troy Brown, but Troy didn't really take as much punishment as Welker has since 2007. 

    Brown playing a little too long until age 38 has zero to do with Welker now.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bbtrick. Show bbtrick's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Just my .02, and something that may have been pointed out in the preceeding 3 pages,

    it seems to me that what would make the most business sense, as well as team sense, would be to first attempt to sign him to a contract that will pay him what he is comfortable with as well as what the team is comfortable with.

    Only if this fails should any consideration be made in terms of trading him and getting what they (Patriots) can for him.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I wouldn't trade him. The best year to have any football player is in his contract year. Also, with regards to Edelman, Keeping him would give us another year to decide whether Edelman is an adequate replacement.
     

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