Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    Currently, the Saints sit an estimated 12 million OVER the cap.

    http://overthecap.com/feb-3-nfl-salary-cap-space-update/

    His talent is undeniable. His age is ideal (just turned 27 in November). His durabilty hasn't been an issue.

    The Saints would need to clear somewhere around 18 million to just get above the cap, and sign only graham. Never mind other needs, and draft picks. I certainly CAN be done...but maybe it won't be.

    I know the pats are only 3+ under the cap right now...but that's 15 million ahead of NO.

    I'm not one of those people crying for Brady to get weapons...but this is a potentially rare opportunity to get a player entering his prime, who plays the EXACT position the team loves to use. He has the size to work the part of the field Brady dominates (between the numbers, 10-20 yards) when he has the players to exploit it. Edelman is too small to work that deep over the middle, Welker was too, that's why he averages 10 yards per catch even after being a very good YAC guy...both of them are in fact.

    I want 4-5 TEs on this team. Ideally:

    Gronk, Graham, Hoomanawanui, Mulligan, TE/FB-type.

    I don't care about outside the numbers. The 3 rookies can figure that out, I don't have a problem with that. Give Brady the kind of guys he has historically done the best with (aside from Moss). Branch worked the slant, an in routes very well. Lloyd worked outside fantastically...but was too scared to work the middle, and was limited because of it. You don't NEED a great outside WR with Brady. QBs like Eli and Rapelisthburger NEED that because they're mental midgets, and just heave it deep half a dozen times a game or more. Brady doesn't.

    Give me Grank and Graham, the 3 rookies, and a power running game...(MJD is a FA...what kind of money is he looking for north of 30?). Restock the OLine. Pray for health. It's bound to come back to the Pats eventually.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    Graham is going to be franchised if they don't sign him to a long term deal.  Their GM has said as much.  There is absolutely zero chance they let him hit the open market even with their cap situation.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    True, not like Graham got shut down by SEA in both games.

    Top 8 scoring offenses of all time have not won the Super Bowl.

    Graham adds no value as a blocker and has a reputation as being soft.

    Sign Graham and you lose out on Talib or another starting corner, plus lose out on the opportunity to shore up that defensive line.

    Dumb strategy. You don't build a superior offense at the expense of the defense. If a team can get a 4 man rush on Brady, then the whole operation is shut down.

    You dont pay a non blocking TE top dollar and then become a power running team.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    Teams do make stupid decisions...

    I wonder how PIT feels about keeping Sanders for the year. That 3rd would have helped their rebuild they are about to start. And Sanders is walking for nothing now. And they didn't make the playoffs.

    Teams do make stupid decisions...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

     

    I wonder who they will have to cut currently to be able to tag him at a bloated number?

    What a mess they're in.  That all started a few years back in 2011 when Loomis swapped out a bunch of vets for some just as pricey ones all at once while needing to pay Brees, which they clearly didn't plan for.

    I can't figure out how some of these GMs keep their jobs. If they hadn't won SB 44, he'd be gone.



    They will definitely cut Will Smith which will save them 11.5 million.

    It wouldn't surprise me if they cut Jabari Greer which saves them 3.1 million.  He was playing okay this year, but considering he just tore his ACL a few months ago I find it hard to believe they keep him with Graham needing to be paid.

    They can save another 2.5 cutting Lance Moore who really slipped down the food chain this year in the WR department.

    Two other money saving cuts would be Pierre Thomas and Roman Harper with Harper being the more likely of the two.  Each of those guys save in the 2.8-3 million range.

    If they backload Graham's contract they can get it done.  It certainly is a mess though having to cut all of those guys if not more.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    The other element here that is ugly is that Graham considers himself more of a WR because he lines up in the slot or outside, more times than as an in line TE.

    So, there appears to be some bad blood with how Loomis would (legally) tag him under the TE position as opposed to the more pricey WR tag.

    Sounds like it's somewhere around 6 million.  



    Brees completely threw Graham under the bus by making a point of telling the media that Graham was obviously a TE.  Pretty harsh.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The other element here that is ugly is that Graham considers himself more of a WR because he lines up in the slot or outside, more times than as an in line TE.

    So, there appears to be some bad blood with how Loomis would (legally) tag him under the TE position as opposed to the more pricey WR tag.

    Sounds like it's somewhere around 6 million.  

    [/QUOTE]

    yeah. Graham isnt liking the idea of being tagged so his agent may try and classify him as a WR to get the 10 mil tag for WR. CRAZY.

    sorry i dont want a guy like that unless he's locked up 5-6 years for 40 mil tops. he will just b i t c h about his deal

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    Currently, the Saints sit an estimated 12 million OVER the cap.

    http://overthecap.com/feb-3-nfl-salary-cap-space-update/

    His talent is undeniable. His age is ideal (just turned 27 in November). His durabilty hasn't been an issue.

    I will take an issue with this.  Sure he hasn't suffered the same kind of catastrophic injuries Gronk has, but this guy has been nicked up every year and it has affected his play at the worst times.  Guy was a nonfactor this postseason.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    True, not like Graham got shut down by SEA in both games.

    Top 8 scoring offenses of all time have not won the Super Bowl.

    Graham adds no value as a blocker and has a reputation as being soft.

    Sign Graham and you lose out on Talib or another starting corner, plus lose out on the opportunity to shore up that defensive line.

    Dumb strategy. You don't build a superior offense at the expense of the defense. If a team can get a 4 man rush on Brady, then the whole operation is shut down.

    You dont pay a non blocking TE top dollar and then become a power running team.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're making false assumption here.

    Why would Graham need to block? Hernandez was on the field plenty with 0 blocking responsibilities on many plays.

    I said I want 4-5 TEs. That's unconventional to begin with, and you've led me to my more unconventional thought regarding their offense.

    I'd roll 3 TEs with regularity if I had the 5 I mentioned.

    Gronk, if EVER healthy, is a monster. Blocks and catches as well as any tight end ever. I mean that individually. He catches as good as anyone ever. He blocks as well as anyone ever.

    Mulligan or Hooman play the role of in-line blocker, late receiving option.

    Graham goes anywhere from on the line, to split wide, in motion, even in the backfield.

    That still leaves you with 2 skill position players after your OLine and Brady.

    One of the rookie, soon-to-be 2nd year WRs on the outside.

    Ridley/Vereen/Bolden/Blount?...one of them as a single back.

    You can easily modify that as needed swapping Mulligan/Hooman for an extra WR.

    You can go HUGE and drop the WR and have both Hooman/Mulligan on the field.

    You can go 5 wide with a mix of 2-4TEs, 1-3 WRs.

    That's been my dream offense since midway 2010. I've always loved a power running game (which means OLine, not neccessarily the RB), and TEs. It pleases me greatly that Gronk is doing #87 proud. Ben Coates will always be a Top 5 favorite player of mine. BEAST! DOUBLE BEASTS!

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    They'll(Saints) tag him, but New England will have tons of cap space next season to mak a move for him.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    Don't want graham, he would be over priced and he isn't nearly as good as gronk

    gronk , if healthy, is a top ten all time talent

    The good gms  put a value on a position and what they should pay, if you have someone you have developed and he is good but wants too much $ then let them go. You cannot get to the SB signing expensive FAs and you will go into the abyss for a long time. You need a great Qb and great guys in the trenches, everyone else can be filled.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    True, not like Graham got shut down by SEA in both games.

    Top 8 scoring offenses of all time have not won the Super Bowl.

    Graham adds no value as a blocker and has a reputation as being soft.

    Sign Graham and you lose out on Talib or another starting corner, plus lose out on the opportunity to shore up that defensive line.

    Dumb strategy. You don't build a superior offense at the expense of the defense. If a team can get a 4 man rush on Brady, then the whole operation is shut down.

    You dont pay a non blocking TE top dollar and then become a power running team.



    This is my opinion on Graham too. He is soft. Draft Troy Niklas ..lot cheeper, perhaps tougher

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    Considering the cap hit he would take it would cripple the Pats.  You wouldn't see the Super Bowl let alone win it.  This team has needs elsewhere.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    True, not like Graham got shut down by SEA in both games.

    Top 8 scoring offenses of all time have not won the Super Bowl.

    Graham adds no value as a blocker and has a reputation as being soft.

    Sign Graham and you lose out on Talib or another starting corner, plus lose out on the opportunity to shore up that defensive line.

    Dumb strategy. You don't build a superior offense at the expense of the defense. If a team can get a 4 man rush on Brady, then the whole operation is shut down.

    You dont pay a non blocking TE top dollar and then become a power running team.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're making false assumption here.

    Why would Graham need to block? Hernandez was on the field plenty with 0 blocking responsibilities on many plays.

    I said I want 4-5 TEs. That's unconventional to begin with, and you've led me to my more unconventional thought regarding their offense.

    I'd roll 3 TEs with regularity if I had the 5 I mentioned.

    Gronk, if EVER healthy, is a monster. Blocks and catches as well as any tight end ever. I mean that individually. He catches as good as anyone ever. He blocks as well as anyone ever.

    Mulligan or Hooman play the role of in-line blocker, late receiving option.

    Graham goes anywhere from on the line, to split wide, in motion, even in the backfield.

    That still leaves you with 2 skill position players after your OLine and Brady.

    One of the rookie, soon-to-be 2nd year WRs on the outside.

    Ridley/Vereen/Bolden/Blount?...one of them as a single back.

    You can easily modify that as needed swapping Mulligan/Hooman for an extra WR.

    You can go HUGE and drop the WR and have both Hooman/Mulligan on the field.

    You can go 5 wide with a mix of 2-4TEs, 1-3 WRs.

    That's been my dream offense since midway 2010. I've always loved a power running game (which means OLine, not neccessarily the RB), and TEs. It pleases me greatly that Gronk is doing #87 proud. Ben Coates will always be a Top 5 favorite player of mine. BEAST! DOUBLE BEASTS!

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, Graham would definitely be the move TE here like what Hernandez was.  

    It would be kinda funny if somehow the Hernandez grievance for the bonus money was finalized/eliminated, and NE could whip up a trade for him with NOs knowing they can't sign him past 2014.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So you're pretty much doing something similar as the Stanford O, except TE's instead of extra olineman.

     

    Here's the problem...Graham is going to cost as much, if not more than Gronkowski. Solder has one year left on his deal. That's probably going to be five huge contracts (Brady, Gronk, Graham, Mankins, Solder).

     

    What does that leave for the defense? Limited resources here. Offense wins you the regular season, defense wins championships. I'd prefer that $$ go to the defense

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    I can think of other places to invest that kind of cash/cap space and not just in one player:

    Either Talib or replacement

    SS

    DT

    OL

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I wonder who they will have to cut currently to be able to tag him at a bloated number?

    What a mess they're in.  That all started a few years back in 2011 when Loomis swapped out a bunch of vets for some just as pricey ones all at once while needing to pay Brees, which they clearly didn't plan for.

    I can't figure out how some of these GMs keep their jobs. If they hadn't won SB 44, he'd be gone.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    They will definitely cut Will Smith which will save them 11.5 million.

     

    It wouldn't surprise me if they cut Jabari Greer which saves them 3.1 million.  He was playing okay this year, but considering he just tore his ACL a few months ago I find it hard to believe they keep him with Graham needing to be paid.

    They can save another 2.5 cutting Lance Moore who really slipped down the food chain this year in the WR department.

    Two other money saving cuts would be Pierre Thomas and Roman Harper with Harper being the more likely of the two.  Each of those guys save in the 2.8-3 million range.

    If they backload Graham's contract they can get it done.  It certainly is a mess though having to cut all of those guys if not more.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was just looking at Moore as a possible cut/and or signing target in case Edelman were to leave.

    I don't think they make the playoffs next year losing that much. Harper is old, Moore older, Smith old and missed last year, but that is just far too much continuity and experience at once.

    Wouldn't mind Greer in here if Talib leaves. Christ, I wouldn't mind looking at Tracy Porter and Greer. Each can still play.

    One thing I noticed about Loomis is he pays one year too late on players he should have been budgeting for before.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesnt this situation sound familiar? This is the same situation the Pats were in until Brady redid his deal. I would assume Brees does the same. Pays him big money to his year 40 and alles the team some room

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanishPastry. Show DanishPastry's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    JG is a top hybrid TE/WR, there is no denying that. But would be way too pricey, and not worth the investment. I think they should look to the draft for another TE. As others have stated, they need to sign Talib, and draft OL and DL, maybe SS.

    I hope Edelman is there as well next year, but think some team or other will look at his stats this year and pay more than BB is willing to. Hope he wants to stay, and that they can work out a deal, but I have no beef with players going for the money. It's a brutal game, and every snap could be their last, so they need to maximize their earnings when they have the chance.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Jimmy Graham is worth the investment!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Graham is going to be franchised if they don't sign him to a long term deal.  Their GM has said as much.  There is absolutely zero chance they let him hit the open market even with their cap situation.

    [/QUOTE]

         Even if Graham could be had, how could the Patriots sign him, when they're only $4mil. below the cap? Even if the Pats had the cap space to sign him, I wouldn't want them to do it.

         Haven't we all seen enough football to know that a TE is not going to get a team over the hump, unless they first have a great QB, and a strong OL and DL? I don't see the Pats having a strong enough OL or DL to win a SB. If Denver was able to shut-down the Patriots' running game, than surely, the 49ers or Seahawks would have, too. Both of those teams have better pass-rushers than the Broncos minus Von "Steroids" Miller.

         Having good receivers is nice. But, great QB play and a top notch OL and DL are the main elements to winning a championship.     

     

     

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