Key offseason moves

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves


    Good Post..

    Offseason moves:

    SS: Bernard Pollard, Donte Whitner or Ryan Clark

    DT & DE: Arthur Jones is a long shot but i like BJ Raji on the cheap or Linval Joseph

    TE: I like the idea of Chandler that some are throwing out there. good blocker, decent hands. or even draft one high (CJF (iowa kid), Amaro, Niklas, or ASJ) are all good options.

    WR: I think Edelman is come back on the cheap, and i think we still need a better outside WR to complement Dobson. Roddy white trade would be great or just someone who may know the system.

    CB: resign Talib or panic... and then draft some depth

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    They say Arthur Jones will only command around 4 mil per. I wonder if he would be interested in coming here and playing with his brother.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree...

    Safety

    D line

    O line

    Tight End 

    We need an impact Safety that can hit and change a game. Same on the D line... get one or more beasts on the Dline and watch our team's attitude change. Hope BB agrees and makes it happen....

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much sums up the way I see it.

    [/QUOTE]


    We need much more than that.

    [/QUOTE]

    The first thing is Gregory goodbye bring in or looking for a hard hitting safety.  I want a hitting machine back there. I want the opposing receivers nervous about catching passes with consequence. If our safety is a little dirty so be it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to agill1970's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A lot of people are talking about how much money we need to pour into our offense to make it better.  I disagree.  After seeing the defense that Seattle put on the field, and then watched it completely dismantle the best offense in the game, I'm thinking we need to emulate their D rather than Denvers O.

    With the #1 pick I would pick one of the top 3 Tight Ends that should be availalbe.  This would only change if their was a monster DL left on the board like Nix.  At which point I would use the second round to pick a TE. 

    On offense we still have Amendola (who I haven't given up on yet) with.  I expect Dobson to have a solid second year, and Boyce could be given the return job if Edleman prices himself out of NE.  This will be a make or break year for Gronk, literally.  He's either going to make all the doubters shut it, or he's going to break something else and be out the door.  A budget veteran signing combined with the other young receivers could make this group solid.  As for RB's, we have them, and a good group at that.  A key will be Blount, would be nice to hold this monster for one more year.  Offensive line is where we need to pay some attention in the draft and FA.  I would even bring in Incognito.  Laugh if you want, he's Mankins but with a bigger mouth, and I think that mouth would be much better controlled here.

    On to D.  We will have a bunch of key returns, but still there's work here that needs doing.  First step is to sign Talib.  Next, address that line and Strong Safety position.  There's a handful of Free Agent Safeties that are aboslute beasts.  Let's make a run at one of them.  As for the line, we discovered some pleasant surprises when trying to plug the gaping holes with the loss of Wilfork and Kelly.  Both should return, another key draft prospect and we could be solid here. 

    Before the injuries we were looking at having one of the better defenses in the league.  With some luck and a couple pieces, we could be looking at that again.  That more than anything is what we need. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with some of this - especially the tightend thing - I haven't really studied the draft all that much, but it doesn't look that deep too me. I've started looking at some of the defensive tackles and...ouch, just ouch. Not like years past where you might have a good one drop because there was so many of them...right now some of the names being mentioned where we pick look like mid second round picks. I'd take the highest rated player there before I reached on a defensive lineman.

    I don't know if I'd resign Talib, I've seen enough of this guy's hip, knee, back, hip, hip injuries to make me wonder if he'll ever stay on the field. I seriously can't believe he went out two AFC championship games in a row...how does that happen? And then they report his knee injury didn't require surgery? Then why didn't he come back in?

    And I'm no longer convinced both Kelly and Wilfork will be back.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree...

    Safety

    D line

    O line

    Tight End

     

    We need an impact Safety that can hit and change a game. Same on the D line... get one or more beasts on the Dline and watch our team's attitude change. Hope BB agrees and makes it happen....

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that sums it up pretty well.   

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Is it because Moe is a white guy?  It took Edelman a while to earn Brady's trust and now we want to start over?

    I know nothing about Moe other than he played at Missouri and is a shifty white guy who just happens to look like Edelman.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Lol. I see Boyce taking over for Edelman if he is not signed, not necessarily moe.

    we also have Mark Harrison floating around out there. If he has anything to provide, he and Dobson outside would be something...due to his size and speed.

    moe was a solid slot guy in college but I like Boyce better in the slot...bigger, quicker and faster. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to agill1970's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A lot of people are talking about how much money we need to pour into our offense to make it better.  I disagree.  After seeing the defense that Seattle put on the field, and then watched it completely dismantle the best offense in the game, I'm thinking we need to emulate their D rather than Denvers O.

    With the #1 pick I would pick one of the top 3 Tight Ends that should be availalbe.  This would only change if their was a monster DL left on the board like Nix.  At which point I would use the second round to pick a TE. 

    On offense we still have Amendola (who I haven't given up on yet) with.  I expect Dobson to have a solid second year, and Boyce could be given the return job if Edleman prices himself out of NE.  This will be a make or break year for Gronk, literally.  He's either going to make all the doubters shut it, or he's going to break something else and be out the door.  A budget veteran signing combined with the other young receivers could make this group solid.  As for RB's, we have them, and a good group at that.  A key will be Blount, would be nice to hold this monster for one more year.  Offensive line is where we need to pay some attention in the draft and FA.  I would even bring in Incognito.  Laugh if you want, he's Mankins but with a bigger mouth, and I think that mouth would be much better controlled here.

    On to D.  We will have a bunch of key returns, but still there's work here that needs doing.  First step is to sign Talib.  Next, address that line and Strong Safety position.  There's a handful of Free Agent Safeties that are aboslute beasts.  Let's make a run at one of them.  As for the line, we discovered some pleasant surprises when trying to plug the gaping holes with the loss of Wilfork and Kelly.  Both should return, another key draft prospect and we could be solid here. 

    Before the injuries we were looking at having one of the better defenses in the league.  With some luck and a couple pieces, we could be looking at that again.  That more than anything is what we need. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with some of this - especially the tightend thing - I haven't really studied the draft all that much, but it doesn't look that deep too me. I've started looking at some of the defensive tackles and...ouch, just ouch. Not like years past where you might have a good one drop because there was so many of them...right now some of the names being mentioned where we pick look like mid second round picks. I'd take the highest rated player there before I reached on a defensive lineman.

    I don't know if I'd resign Talib, I've seen enough of this guy's hip, knee, back, hip, hip injuries to make me wonder if he'll ever stay on the field. I seriously can't believe he went out two AFC championship games in a row...how does that happen? And then they report his knee injury didn't require surgery? Then why didn't he come back in?

    And I'm no longer convinced both Kelly and Wilfork will be back.

    [/QUOTE]

    Honestly I wouldn't be surprised either if Kelly and Vince didn't come back. I may be the odd man out, but I would like to see bb go with speed along the line over size. both if you can find it. Vw cap is just too much for what he offers at this point after injury. It will be reduced or he cut. 

    Someone f.oated the idea of Melton and a few including myself last year wanted him. He is the type of player I envision inside. Not sure what he will cost as I think Chicago franchised him last year to keep him? 

    So I have 2 unconventional ideas. 

    1. Move Collins to SS. 

    2. Move nink to olb, with Hightower inside and mayo on the other side.

    sign a FA DT, and draft a clone of chandler jones in round 1 if he can be had. I think we need to vastly improve the rush and it should come from both sides as well as the middle. 

    Do not resign Talib. Do not resign Edelman. Dump amendola after June 1st. Make a trade for roddy white as Russ suggests, grab a vet cb that can play 2-3 spot outside who is not injury prone. Sign Scott chandler.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    Lots of good ideas in this thread. Really, New England is going to be hadncuffed if they can't restructure Wilfork AND get some cap relief from the league in the Hernandez case. New England could free up as much as $20 million, or be left with just enough to get their draft picks signed. We shall see. Personally, I'll be ticked off if the league doesn't let Kraft off the hook for Hernandez. 

    Count me in TC's camp: draft the best DT you can afford. I'd add, OG as well. New England needs to start winning the battles inside against all comers. It's the road to success against the best teams because that is what the best teams do well, no matter their style of play: they win in the trenches. 

    PCM is right on about the cuts/restructures. 

    Like Rusty, I don't think Edelman is going to get the money that some people take for granted that he will, so letting him walk won't be a must. Adding a talented vet like Sanders or Maclin would be nice. To me, that depends on the market, because I don't consider either of the ace recievers, but talented #2 WRs. 

    In FA, I'd target two things: an auxilliary pass rusher with real talent. Maintaining three DEs that are good has an amazing effect on a pass rush. Getting three deep at DE would allow Chandler Jones and Ninkovich more time to breath. I'd be more in the mindset of going after someone like Michael Bennett or Robert Ayers for a greater value. 

    I'd also like New England to look into signing someone like Alex Mack or Evan Deitrich-Smith. Centers are almost always great value signings. Even the best are only going to get something like 7-8. Upgrading the interior of the line is a must, even if it's not premium. I think it's time, at any rate, that New England put aside Wendell, who is a good team player, but most definitely not a starter. At any given rate, upgrading RG and C would be priorities. 

    In the draft I'd also like them to take a look at Colt Lyerla. He has some issues, but could be a great value signing (and yes, I still endorse that policy). 

    A name that has been linked with NE is Ra-shede Hageman. He's a freak athlete. If he is within striking distance I wouldn't be afraid to move up a bit for him. As an interior tackle in the 43 he'd be unstoppable given the right environment and coaching. 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-redsox-rule. Show the-redsox-rule's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Draft the best DT you can with the 1st pick or trade up to get one, if not make Arthur Jones or Randy Starks a priority which will only work if we cut VW(due to his achilles ending his career) Jones would be a cheaper option. Then I would draft either a CB or SS if we go DT in FA. Let Talib walk, and Wendell as well, replacing them both in the draft. I like Dennard and Ryan as our 1 and 2 next year but bring in competition.

     I have absolutely no problem letting Edelman go(love him as a hard working over acheiver) as he is not worth a big contract. Amendola will fill the void and T.J Moe could be an acceptable back up. I mean Welker, Edelman, and Amendola were basically all undrafted. Moe fits the mold, I mean, Its the slot position! I like making Jeremy Maclin a priority on an incentive based contract. Great speed, great route runner, and good hands! 

    If we can snake Pita from Baltimore I would do it, he's a perfect Hern replacement. If not draft a TE in the top 4 rounds. Cut soap, Kelly, possibly VW, and Adrian Wilson(another achilles tragedy, as he was the SS physical presence we needed) Harmon should get a chance to start next year or compete with a 1st or 2nd round SS....unless we move Collins to safety as pats lifer suggested, and draft a LBer!

     

     

     id like to see all of that. dt is the biggest need imo and id even trad up to get the right guy. with the right moves this offseason the patriots could be superbowl contenders. the offense will be fine as long as they can improve the tight end position and pita or a draft pick could solve that. the rest of the draft should fill in some of the few holes left on defense. defense wins over offense every time.

     

     

     

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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    wilfork - renegotiate.

    Gregory - gone. Need hard hitting, aggressive SS

    Interior DL who can pass protect and run block

    Another TE who can catch and block

    CB - need depth, someone as good if not better than Talib. Sign Talib at lowest cost possible. If not possible, we need two CBs for improved depth.

    OL - shore it up

    DE/OLB - need book end for Jones who is as good, if not better.

    Change defensive philosophy and personnel at same time.  Passive vanilla isn't where we need to be. Gotta be able to get off the field.

    [/QUOTE]


    BB isn't passive or vanilla. Any defense looks  passive and vanilla when they can't get to the QB. By season's end, I think it was evident that the DL doesn't get to the QB unless the CBs make them hold the ball. 

    That is what we all saw happen between the two Denver games. New England needs to add more quality depth at CB, and more pure talent up front. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Is it because Moe is a white guy?  It took Edelman a while to earn Brady's trust and now we want to start over?

    I know nothing about Moe other than he played at Missouri and is a shifty white guy who just happens to look like Edelman.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Lol. I see Boyce taking over for Edelman if he is not signed, not necessarily moe.

    we also have Mark Harrison floating around out there. If he has anything to provide, he and Dobson outside would be something...due to his size and speed.

    moe was a solid slot guy in college but I like Boyce better in the slot...bigger, quicker and faster. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Aren't you a BBWer? I thought you wanted Brady to have an known name at every WR position so Brady can sleep at night knowing his Binky Club is deep and completed?

    [/QUOTE]

    Not I. all I want is some competent receivers who can separate, run the right routes and catch. Then Brady to deliver the ball like he should. The first part should come with the year 2 progression...hopefully.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    The bad thing about this year is they changed all the time lines. Free Agency doesn't begin until mid March, and the draft isn't until May. So it tends to distort the thought process, when at the end of the season most teams do an exit analysis of eack position and they form a general opinion on which way to go, this year they will have an extra 30 days to dwell on their exit evaluations. Whereas in the past the determinations were made post haste. Hey I'm sure that most teams work on the fly but with Free Agency being pushed back it definately changes the landscape. Also it messes up all of the threads because we all start thinking about potential moves almost as soon as the last game is played. Now we have to wait for an additional month and a half and a lot of things can change going forward. So without going through all of my final thoughts I'm going to agree with what most of us have surmised, the Patriots need immediate help at these positions: TE,SS,DT, and C/G. They could also start their search for a potential replacement for TB12, as well as maybe start looking for a DC who has a different vision for this defense. I think that Josh McD is going to take over when BB retires from coaching.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    wilfork - renegotiate.

    Gregory - gone. Need hard hitting, aggressive SS

    Interior DL who can pass protect and run block

    Another TE who can catch and block

    CB - need depth, someone as good if not better than Talib. Sign Talib at lowest cost possible. If not possible, we need two CBs for improved depth.

    OL - shore it up

    DE/OLB - need book end for Jones who is as good, if not better.

    Change defensive philosophy and personnel at same time.  Passive vanilla isn't where we need to be. Gotta be able to get off the field.

    [/QUOTE]


    BB isn't passive or vanilla. Any defense looks  passive and vanilla when they can't get to the QB. By season's end, I think it was evident that the DL doesn't get to the QB unless the CBs make them hold the ball. 

    That is what we all saw happen between the two Denver games. New England needs to add more quality depth at CB, and more pure talent up front. 

    [/QUOTE]

    i'm not sure if I can agree. Basically, you're saying it's because of the lack of personnel - and I would partially agree to the extend that the "system" doesn't work well if the personnel can't do the job.  Here's where I sort of disagree.  BB is all about situational football.  Put defensive players in position/scheme/play based on one's best guess as to what play is going to run - and it'll "work" x% of the time.  IMO, BB rarely becomes aggressive to get after the QB, for example, merely to get the defense off the field - unless his back is to the wall and he has no choice.  So, he may be willing to give up yardage between the 20's because that's his defensive philosophy.  Now, if you're gonna say that he plays by the book because his personnel is limited.....then, I'd say that he wasn't doing his job re: personnel.

    [/QUOTE]

    Seattle, for instance, rarely gets aggressive to get after the QB. Their defense is pretty vanilla. They just line up and make it work.

    Part of being agressive up at the line is personell though: when Talib is on the field, New England can play one-deep more often, and play their CBs in aggressive press coverage. 

    If you are asking for a Dick Lebeau/Rob Ryan blitz-fiesta, you don't need that, and you don't necessarily want it either. New England runs a 43 so you already have an extra rusher committed down to down. 

    If we are talking about personell, they've been improving there ... but yes, it's taking quite a while and it is (As always) contingent on getting vets signed in here cheap at an inury risk to even sustain that improvement. 

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    wilfork - renegotiate.

    Gregory - gone. Need hard hitting, aggressive SS

    Interior DL who can pass protect and run block

    Another TE who can catch and block

    CB - need depth, someone as good if not better than Talib. Sign Talib at lowest cost possible. If not possible, we need two CBs for improved depth.

    OL - shore it up

    DE/OLB - need book end for Jones who is as good, if not better.

    Change defensive philosophy and personnel at same time.  Passive vanilla isn't where we need to be. Gotta be able to get off the field.

    [/QUOTE]


    BB isn't passive or vanilla. Any defense looks  passive and vanilla when they can't get to the QB. By season's end, I think it was evident that the DL doesn't get to the QB unless the CBs make them hold the ball. 

    That is what we all saw happen between the two Denver games. New England needs to add more quality depth at CB, and more pure talent up front. 

    [/QUOTE]

    i'm not sure if I can agree. Basically, you're saying it's because of the lack of personnel - and I would partially agree to the extend that the "system" doesn't work well if the personnel can't do the job.  Here's where I sort of disagree.  BB is all about situational football.  Put defensive players in position/scheme/play based on one's best guess as to what play is going to run - and it'll "work" x% of the time.  IMO, BB rarely becomes aggressive to get after the QB, for example, merely to get the defense off the field - unless his back is to the wall and he has no choice.  So, he may be willing to give up yardage between the 20's because that's his defensive philosophy.  Now, if you're gonna say that he plays by the book because his personnel is limited.....then, I'd say that he wasn't doing his job re: personnel.

    [/QUOTE]

    Seattle, for instance, rarely gets aggressive to get after the QB. Their defense is pretty vanilla. They just line up and make it work.

    Part of being agressive up at the line is personell though: when Talib is on the field, New England can play one-deep more often, and play their CBs in aggressive press coverage. 

    If you are asking for a Dick Lebeau/Rob Ryan blitz-fiesta, you don't need that, and you don't necessarily want it either. New England runs a 43 so you already have an extra rusher committed down to down. 

    If we are talking about personell, they've been improving there ... but yes, it's taking quite a while and it is (As always) contingent on getting vets signed in here cheap at an inury risk to even sustain that improvement. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    According to Coolade, that is not true. He said Pete Carroll is very "innovative".

    Not kidding.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think they had something like 10 sacks from their LBers, five alone from Bobby Wagner. 

    The other 34 came from DTs and DEs, a mix of them. 

    I don't think they had any S or CB sacks. 

    I've watched them. I don't think Carrol is a dummy, far from it. But if New England is "vanilla" so is Seattle. They both run 4-3 under base defenses, and they both blitz (in this case sending a 5th rusher) about the exact same amount, and from the same position mostly (MLB). 

    Seattle said this themselves: they don't do anything really exotic, and didn't do anything exotic to stymie the Broncos. They came out and played. 

    The difference is the talent around the scheme. Carrol has the best secondary in football (maybe the best in years) and a dominant front four. 

    I guess it appears less passive and more aggressive when the players are not getting stonewalled by superior offensive lineman, or the CBs are making plays on poorly thrown balls because the DL gets consistent pressure up the middle. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mcboyd22. Show mcboyd22's posts

    Re: Key offseason moves

    ZB - totally agree with you. All of the interviews with Seahawk defenders said, if anything, they went back to basics, no changes to previous schemes. They knew they could match up and wreak havoc - and they did. 

    One other thing to consider - they did this w/o a bunch of 1st round draft choices either. 

     

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