LB Versatility & Deployment

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    when they had the right personel the pats were able to switch defenses on the fly pretty much from down to down...and its not just the 3-4 to the 4-3...they use multiple sub packages were they will have 1 dlineman 5lb's and 5 db's  etc etc...That is what caused so many problems for teams..they never knew what to expect. i think do that this year will depend on how the younger players obsorb the defense...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    it has been reported that nichovich is up from 255 to 263 with 8 lbs of muscle...cant count him out either...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    what you have is a straight 4-3   4 dline 3 lb 4 dbs...
    doest a nickle require additional 5 dbs?  hence nickel by definition?

    something like 2 dl's 4 linebackers and 5 db's???
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment


    I think the heavy package would hold up against a power formation, 2 TE, 1 RB offense. But, it depends on who the "5" are and if they can be brought up to play the run effectively. I think Chung is going to be a nice player in this formation, and if used as a rover of sorts, he'll make a lot of tackles. 

    The d-line you noted above I think is solid, not spectacular. With Mayo/Spikes/Wilfork in the middle, it should force most everything outside of the guard/tackles, so if Chung and McCourty for example can play the run well, I think this defense would work against that offensive formation you noted. 
    My only question mark would be the DE position, or the guys playing it. In your "heavy" could you use say Cunningham at DE as he has more speed than Warren/Warren and Lewis and can contain I think as well? I think this puts a lot of pressure on the DE spot.

    I would like to see a defense where we line up 5 LB's, and 3 back. Use Chung as 1 of the 5 LB's, again the rover, with Bodden/Butler/Meriweather back, Wilfork, Warren, Warren/Lewis/Brace/Pyror on the DL...Mayo, Spikes, McKenzie, Cunningham/TBC/Burgess/Crable as our LB's. 

    This puts athleticism and speed both in the middle and back. I guess this the 3-4 really, with Chung as a rover. 


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    Defensive diversity is a good thing.  It confuses offenses, and will likely make our defense potent again.  I trust the defensive mastermind, BB, to turn our defense around.  He has a nice mix of talent and I feel he is they guy who can best use it. Also, injuries happen, from a sore arm in practice to a torn ACL. Having depth keeps us competitive whether the injury lasts a week or the entire season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    Nickel

    In American football, a nickel defense is a defensive alignment that uses five defensive backs. The fifth defensive back is called the nickelback. The defense has five defensive backs, and usually has four down linemen and two linebackers. A lineup of three down linemen and three linebackers is sometimes used, but this is often called a 3-3-5 defense instead of a Nickel defense. The four-linemen/two linebacker version of the Nickel is generally more popular because it affords the defense greater ability to stop an opponent's running game.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_defense

    I have seen all of the above in action;

    DL/LB/DB

    1,5,5
    2,4,5
    3,3,5
    4,2,5
    5,1,5

    The patriots ran the later form 5,1,5 while Mayo was injured and Guyton was in the middle. They would often have TBC, Burgess, and another LB like Adaliuos or Nichovich in the game. They are traditionally LB's but they would all disguise the defense by putting there hand down @ the line of scrimmage. You would see an array of blitzing, twists, fires, and blasts out of this alignment and more often than not Guyton would clean up in this role. I thought the defense played its best earlier in the year when Mayo was out with the MCL sprain... In there base the absence of Mayo was HUGE but in this sub package he was not missed at all.

    Most common stunt;

    Tully, Burgess, Pryor, Wilfork, Thomas

    Wilfork is straight up on the Tackle and Thomas is in a three tech while TBC is in a 5 tech outside the TE on the strongside.

    In this defense Guyton was a roving LB/SS, because he was typically 9 yards off the ball instead of 4 or 5. He was in a position to cover the deepest intermediate level on the field with ease

    BB put him in a position to succeed, in many ways i feel they modified the defense to make sure he was using his strengths, being further away from the line of scrimmage than a typical 3-4 backer allow him to run around instead of through blocks and it also gave him a head start against TE and RB's in man to man.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    I also want to see BB's UFO defense, where any LB can rush and any LB can drop into coverage. 

    Spikes is nailed by the trolls for being slow but he sure looks fast!  I don't know if he can rush but he sure can cover because he's half a step early to the play (interception city), and he wants to be the defensive signal caller so he's in on most plays. 

    Tully Banta Cain is a 10 sack guy.  He's in.  Burgess was starting to get it.  He's in until someone outplays him.  Crable probably is really good at this (if he's not in the operating by September, which is likely).  The other blitzer is Cunningham, who is a rookie and will sit if possible. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    Mckenzie is a guy that could play inside or weakside.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    McKenzie is a complete question mark.  He was only a third rounder, then he tore two knee ligaments.  Two strikes.  As a third rounder he might have been a never-was.  As a guy with a rebuilt knee he might soon be no more than an ad against the idea of having pro football.

    I feel for the guy, and I hope he saved up most of his first year's salary, but unless he shows a spark he's gone.

    Anyways, he might possibly be the real deal, and finally he might be a capable backup.  Two strikes is such a long way from three strikes, depending on who is at the plate.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Supernova13. Show Supernova13's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    I remember when football experts would always talk about how Bill Belichick and Peyton Manning would have chess matches on the field. His ability to fluster Peyton was a critical aspect in the Pats ability to dominate the Colts and other teams. It seems to me that the defense got away from creativity when Coach Pees was calling the shots. They saw success with the little creativity they showed last year using "organized chaos". Linebacker versatility is critical to be able to employ unique defensive schemes. 

    Mayo could play all over the place. He can line up at the "Mike" or "Will" in the 3-4, or all three spots in the 4-3. He has one ILB spot locked up. I really hope he can start producing more big plays. A rush up the middle would help disguise the weak OLB rush. 

    I believe McKenzie has the ability to line up at every spot in either defense. That would be a fantastic asset and really allow the defense to be flexible. I think his versatility will make it impossible for him to not find a way on the field.  

    Guyton is interesting. He seems like the prototypical 4-3 "Will", but would probably be best utilized as a coverage linebacker in the nickel or 3rd down. The idea someone brought up about him being a S/LB hybrid is interesting, and should be explored more by Belichick. 

    Spikes seem to be a thumper best suited for the "Mike". What interests me about the Florida product is his instincts. He really came off the tape as a football player, one that would make plays no matter here you stick him.

    Banta-Cain is a little overrated in my eyes, due to the fact that 5 out of his 10 sacks came against Buffalo's incompetent line. That said, he has the flexibility to line up as a down end or standing up as the "Jack". In an ideal situation, he comes in on 3rd down as a pass rusher. 

    Burgess isn't all that versatile, and seems limited to strictly rushing the passer from the outside. That said, I can see him playing relatively well next year, as I project about 65 tackles and 9 sacks for him. He can do it. 

    Crable is an unknown quantity, but could be an X-factor. He was a beast at Michigan, where he lined up all over the place. He will be rusty from two years off, and you cannot expect much from him. If he can return to college form, the rush would be bolstered. I see him as an elephant, mainly rushing, but has the ability to drop back in coverage. 

    Woods is a serviceable player who should not be starting for this team. His greatest asset is as a special teams contributer, as seen in the first game of last year. He is a fine backup, but I would not be surprised if he gets cut. 

    Ninkovich. I am not exactly sure about him. He played fine last year, but I feel he should be relegated to coming off the bench as an occasional sub or could spot start in case of injury. For me, he did not make enough plays that were a defensive staple of past Patriots teams. 

    Murrell. I have not watched any tape on him, so I cannot say anything about his abilities. From what I have heard, he is a special teams ace who played well for Appalachian State. 

    Eric Alexander should be cut, and I will be shocked if he earns a roster spot. There is no reason for him to make the team over more talented players who can actually contribute to a successful season. 

    Jermaine Cunningham should contribute right away, but will still need time to understand the complex defensive schemes of the NFL. I am not expecting anything huge for the first year or two, but fully expect him to become a mainstay at ROLB in the future. Mel Kiper Jr. stated that when he went back to look at Cunningham's tape, he was extremely impressed. 

    William Thomas. I know absolutely nothing about him, but I read he had been lining up at fullback in the workouts. 

    Dane Fletcher. Not sure about this player either. I read from someone that he lined up both inside and outside at rookie mini camp. It is that kind of versatility that Belichick craves. There is usually one undrafted free agent to make the squad, and for all we know, it could be this kid. 

    Pat Chung. Yes, I know he is not a linebacker. That said, I would not be surprised if he plays close to the line of scrimmage next year. He is a tough, physical safety who knows how to lay the wood. 

                    
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment


    Who thought it would be fun again to talk about the Pats LB corps?....seems like a while since we have had anything nearing this level of depth, talent and diversity.

    I like us on paper. Power and speed. Someone mentioned we need guys on the field that can play the run and pass, and not bring in "specialists" based on down and distance. I kind of agree with this. I think the best defenses are those where your 11 guys can play either, move around, hand up, hand down, drop back, or rush. Of course your going to sub and sub often, but, subbing and not giving the offense a look presnap is important...or, letting the offense know what your going to do with a heavy or light package is what I mean. 

    Why i like our LB group so much is that there are several guys on it that I think can play multiple positions, in multiple packages. This should help considerably with disguises and we can get back to confusing offenses like we did the Colts way back when. But, when we frustrated Manning, remember we also had good corners and a good DL, so this is why I think the addition of McCourty here is very important. It should help our front 7 significantly. The missing piece is RDE. Possibly for another post.

    I think most of us are high on Spikes. Too early to tell for sure, but he looks the part and best of all is instinctive...which you can't teach. 

    Question...If Spikes is the part, could he take over setting the front 7?...maybe not this year, but what about next?...The big question here would be what about Mayo?....I guess a good problem to have. But again, gives us flexibility to move Mayo outside or in....I think Mayo is a better ILB than OLB, but he did play the OLB position successfully at Tennessee...i think it was a 4-3 however, which brings up another point of us running more of that this year with our DL depth and ability to staff it in the LB corps....Mayo, Spikes, Mckenzie (your 4-3 LB's...Interesting?..what say you?

    It's been talked about a lot on different posts....this notion of us having more quality to staff the 4-3 than 3-4. I know this posts is about our LB's, but lets explore a bit from the LB view...I already took a stab above on who I think could be interesting in the 4-3 for LBs....of course, Guyton is in that discussion as well...
    Along the line, you could line up Cunningham as one DE, Pryor/GWarren, Wilfork, TWarren/TBC/Burgess...

    What say you?....knowing what we know now, do we have the personnel at LB to be more effective in a 4-3 or 3-4? THoughts on this appreciated.




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: LB Versatility & Deployment

    We have the LBs for a 4-3 but who will play DE?  TBC, Burgess and Cunningham are the only 4-3 DEs we have right?  One is just a rookie and the other two are average (maybe above average).  I say we're much better suited for a 3-4, even with no one good to play RE. 
     

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