Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, the data supports your points just fine, but I question it in a new system. McGinest wasn't even able to adjust into that role until 2001, really.  Before that time, he was a good, but not great player, struggling with inuries as well. I just think it's hard to say "this guy will be a 3-4 OLB elephant type role". NE needs impact NOW, not 2-3 years down the line. I want the DE or OLB in this draft to be better than what we have right now. Clayborn seems to be more a slam dunk 4-3 DE to me than an 3-4 OLB. He'd be a project 3-4 OLB regardless of his combine results, in my opinion. I don't want a project in Round 1. And then you look at this character issues. Not a huge deal for a college kid to make a stupid decision, but still.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying he will be a 34 elephant, I'm saying it's my opinion that he has the skill to play there.  No doubt he's a known commodity as a 43 DE, which is why he may not even be on the board at 28, assuming they're interested in him.

    Unfortunately for this class, any high round DE/OLB type, outside of Von Miller and Akeem Ayers will be a conversion type and I'm not sure what your opinion of Ayers is, but I don't see him as an impact type player. 

    Houston was listed as a 34 OLB this past season, but spent most of his time with his hand in the dirt, rushing the passer, atleast based off of what I've seen and he certainly didn't look that comfortable when asked to operate in space at the combine.  Kerrigan, Smith, Reed, Sheard, Acho and Quinn are all 43 DE's that would need to make a converasion.  Martez Wilson who some posters have brought up was an ILB so he too would need to make a change of position.  He's also raw as a pass rusher as compared to the others, so you have to wonder how advanced that part of his game would be early in his career.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    I guess. I just wouldn't pick him and Watt in Round 1. 

    I'd expect both 1st rd picks to be starting potential or actual starters coming into and out of camp.  Cunningham was a DE in college but much smaller and more athletic (IMO) than Clayborn.

    It took him most of the year to get into a groove.  Obviously, as a 2nd rd pick, he's not higher end OLB talent.

    That's all I am saying. If NE ran a 4-3 and needed a 4-3 DE, Clayborn would be high on the list.

    Ayers appears to be more like a Von Miller 4-3 OLB type.  I can't see either holding  up on the edge pretending they can set it and last for 3 downs on defense in this league.  People rave about Von Miller.

    I think if Justin Houston added some bulk, like another 7-10 lbs, I could see him playing that McGinest elephant role.

    There are just other OLBs I am sold on before these guys.  Robert Quinn is one, Reed is one, and Kerrigan is another.  

    I also like Sheard as a convert to OLB in a 3-4, maybe at 33. Sheard had that incident, so he does have character concerns.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ben-umass. Show ben-umass's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    I feel like a 4-3 DE would make the most impact right away anyways. they use a 4 man line  in the subpackage defense that we use half the time anyway. As long as they can get to the passer, I think its possibility
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, the data supports your points just fine, but I question it in a new system. McGinest wasn't even able to adjust into that role until 2001, really.  Before that time, he was a good, but not great player, struggling with inuries as well. I just think it's hard to say "this guy will be a 3-4 OLB elephant type role". NE needs impact NOW, not 2-3 years down the line. I want the DE or OLB in this draft to be better than what we have right now. Clayborn seems to be more a slam dunk 4-3 DE to me than an 3-4 OLB. He'd be a project 3-4 OLB regardless of his combine results, in my opinion. I don't want a project in Round 1. And then you look at this character issues. Not a huge deal for a college kid to make a stupid decision, but still.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Willie Mac was actually a 43 DE for us before he moved over to OLB. It took him about a year to transition over but his triangle numbers were similar to Clayborn. Now as you put it it's going to take time for him to transition over but looking at our current OLB's none of Nin, TBC, Cunningham, were a pure OLB's in college and all were starters for the team last year. More to your point looking at the draft class name 1 pure OLB that was asked to drop back. Miller is one but Quinn, Kerrigan, Smith, Reed, Acho, Houston, and Shread were DE's primarily and never really dropped back. Even Moch never really dropped back he was a rushing specialist. You aren't going to get that perfect OLB who you know can rush the passer and drop back from day 1 so you have to look at the players available and what they can do. Personal I'd rather have Kerrigan, Smith, Reed, or Acho over Clayborn but if they aren't an option I'd rather have Clayborn as an elephant then Bailey or nothing at all. BTW Wilson was a ILB and never really asked to cover anything outside the box so he has major coverage questions too
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By 
    1Car  Car Blaine Gabbert QB ARMY 2LT 
    2Den  Den Marcell Dareus DT pats7393 
    3Buf Buf Cam Newton QB PatsEng  
    4Cin  Cin AJ Green WR KyleCleric 
    5Ari  Ari Von Miller OLB ben-umass 
    6Cle  Cle Patrick Peterson CB digger0862 
    7SF 11, 73 Hou P. Amukamara CB pats7393 
    8Ten  Ten R.Quinn DE ricky12684 
    9Dal  Dal Tyron Smith OT KyleCleric 
    10Was 17,60 NE JJ Watt DE Titletownfan 
    11Hou 7 SF Nick Fairley DT ben-umass 
    12Min  Min Da'Quan Bowers DE ucantstopme 
    13Det18,82,114 SD Julio Jones WR Army2LT 
    14StL  StL Gabe Carimi OT/OG pats7393 
    15Mia  Mia Ryan Mallett QB KyleCleric 
    16Jac  Jac Aldon Smith OLB PChungAllDay25 
    17NE 10 Was Jake Locker QB digger0862 
    18SD 13 DET Antony Castonzo  OT ben-umass 
    19NYG  NYG Nate Solder OT pats7393 
    20TB  TB Cam Jordan DL cantstopme 
    21KC  KC Phil Taylor NT ricky12684 
    22Ind  Ind Derick Sherrod OT CaptFox 
    23Phi 31, 63 Pit R. Kerrigan DE Army2LT 
    24NO  NO Corey Liuget DT pats7393 
    25Sea  Sea Mike Pouncey OG digger0862 
    26Bal     Bal Danny Watkins OG/RT LAPats 
    27Atl      Atl                                           Brandon Harris Cb                           ben-umass 
    28NE NEAdrian ClaybornDE/OLBmbeaulieu07 
    29Chi  Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393 
    30NYJ NYJWilkersonDEMbeaulieu07 
    31Pit 23 Phi J. Smith CB pats7393 
    32GB 38 , 103 ARI C. Ponder   Qb CaptFox

    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE45, 1st next year  SF Colin Kaepernick QB PatsEng
    34Buf NoneBufKyle RudolphTEmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Andy Dalton QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Cameron Heyward DE digger0862
    37Cle     
    38GB (#32)     
    39Ten     
    40Dal     
    41Was     
    42Hou     
    43Det     
    44Min     
    45SF #33 NE   
    46Den     
    47Oak     
    48StL     
    49Jac     
    50SD     
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60Was (#10)     
    61Chi     
    62SD     
    63Phi (#23)     
    64GB    
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

      Fun mock so far.

    I get it that this is Imaginary Mock World , and I'm not tryin to be a spoil sport or anything ...

     But am I the only one here who sees the above Pats /SF Trade scenario as...

    BUNK ?


    Sorry , but it's beyond doubtful we'd be getting a 1st rounder AND a mid second rounder for the rights to draft Colin Kaepernick .

      Especially when you consider that one pick earlier ~ the Pack trade back 6 spots and realistically pick up an early 4th.
       I understand there's the overnight re-evaluation process to consider , but I cant see how it would equal the difference between parlaying what should be something like a fair-market late 3rd rounder into a 2012 1st rounder .
    Points Value Chart:
     #33 = 580 
     #45 = 450
     The difference is 130 ~ roughly an end of 3rd round pick  ( #92 )

     The Pats getting an extra 2nd in 2012 would be much more realistic
    ( Or conversely -Them getting SF's 2012 #1 with the Pats throwing in an extra 2012 pick ...something like a 4th or 5th )

    Juz sayin...
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round:
    [QUOTE]  Fun mock so far. I get it that this is Imaginary Mock World , and I'm not tryin to be a spoil sport or anything  ...  But am I the only one here who sees the above Pats /SF Trade scenario as... BUNK ? Sorry , but it's beyond doubtful we'd be getting a 1st rounder AND a mid second rounder for the rights to draft Colin Kaepernick .   Especially when you consider that one pick earlier ~ the Pack trade back 6 spots and realistically pick up an early 4th.    I understand there's the overnight re-evaluation process to consider , but I cant see how it would equal the difference between parlaying what should be something like a fair-market late 3rd rounder into a 2012 1st rounder . Points Value Chart:  #33 = 580   #45 = 450  The difference is 130 ~ roughly an end of 3rd round pick  ( #92 )   The Pats getting an extra 2nd in 2012 would be much more realistic ( Or conversely -Them getting SF's 2012 #1 with the Pats throwing in an extra 2012 pick ...something like a 4th or 5th ) Juz sayin...
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE]

    Yeah it's a bit wide eyed on my part but I see Kaepernick as the last QB that could become a franchise QB in the draft. With Tenn and Cinn sitting right there I could imagine a bidding war. I'm going to agree with you though and say if you toss in pick #92 it seems fairly reasonable. I would still do #33 and #92 for #45 and SF's 1st next year. With a new coach and a new QB I couldn't imagine SF making the playoffs or even competing in their division next year
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round:
    [QUOTE]Quick question, does anybody think Watt will fall to 17th?
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    There's a chance it all depends on how things fall in the draft. If there is a QB run early (I'm thinking at least 3 in the top 12) then you could see a couple players drop. It also depends on how teams look at Bowers knee truthfully. He's dropping quick and it might come down a choice between Bowers and Watt. But for arguments sake Here's who I see going before Watt:

    Fairley
    Dareus
    Gabbert
    Newton
    Green
    Jones
    Peterson
    Prince
    Miller
    Quinn

    Now that's 10 picks with Dal being the obviously spoiler at 9. Dal needs T's, OLB's, and CB too. If Prince falls to them I thin they go Prince but there is a good shot Prince won't make it past SF (a place where a QB could land if they are afraid of missing one later). It's to early to take a T imo so they either trade back or decide between Watt or Bowers. I say Bowers because I think Tenn goes Fairley but if Fairley falls to 9 Dal takes him.

    For arguments sake lets say he gets past Dal now we are looking at 11-16. The biggest teams who need DE's are Hou, Minn, Det, Stl, Jax

    Hou is in bigger need of OLB's then DE so Aldon Smith looks like a natural fit

    Det I have to believe is going T

    Jax runs a 43 so even though Watt would give them flexibility I'm thinking Kerrigan or Jordan are just better fits for their system

    Stl is a big concern because they want someone opposite Long, however, they need a LB or DT more. Liuget or Taylor could be a possibility.

    Minn is another big concern but I have o believe they are targeting Locker. They love the kid and Idon't think anyone believes the kid will be around in the 2nd and maybe not even the late 1st.

    Right now I'd put the odds of Watt making it to 17 are 50/50 but at least 1 of Wilkerson or Watt will be at 17
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round : Yeah it's a bit wide eyed on my part but I see Kaepernick as the last QB that could become a franchise QB in the draft. With Tenn and Cinn sitting right there I could imagine a bidding war. I'm going to agree with you though and say if you toss in pick #92 it seems fairly reasonable. I would still do #33 and #92 for #45 and SF's 1st next year. With a new coach and a new QB I couldn't imagine SF making the playoffs or even competing in their division next year
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Didnt mean to come across as preachy ( especially considering we're talkin about a pretendy-world mock )
       My guess is  BB would be more than happy to toss in a late 4th rndr to secure the 49ers 2012 1st ( Conceivable ~Top 5 pick )
     At any rate -
     After I make the upcoming Cleveland pick I'll tack the Pats late 4th rounder (#145 )onto the SF/Pats deal to even it out ( with your blessing PatsEng  , of course )

    Deal including Draft Value Chart:

     SF gives up 2012 1st Rndr and #45 ( 450 pts)


    Pats give up
    #33   ( 580 pts)
    #125  (470 pts)
    Total    627 pts

    The difference is 177
    ( Meaning it costs the Pats the equivalent of a mid 3rd to aquire SFs 2012 #1 )
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By 
    1Car  Car Blaine Gabbert QB ARMY 2LT 
    2Den  Den Marcell Dareus DT pats7393 
    3Buf Buf Cam Newton QB PatsEng  
    4Cin  Cin AJ Green WR KyleCleric 
    5Ari  Ari Von Miller OLB ben-umass 
    6Cle  Cle Patrick Peterson CB digger0862 
    7SF 11, 73 Hou P. Amukamara CB pats7393 
    8Ten  Ten R.Quinn DE ricky12684 
    9Dal  Dal Tyron Smith OT KyleCleric 
    10Was 17,60 NE JJ Watt DE Titletownfan 
    11Hou 7 SF Nick Fairley DT ben-umass 
    12Min  Min Da'Quan Bowers DE ucantstopme 
    13Det18,82,114 SD Julio Jones WR Army2LT 
    14StL  StL Gabe Carimi OT/OG pats7393 
    15Mia  Mia Ryan Mallett QB KyleCleric 
    16Jac  Jac Aldon Smith OLB PChungAllDay25 
    17NE 10 Was Jake Locker QB digger0862 
    18SD 13 DET Antony Castonzo  OT ben-umass 
    19NYG  NYG Nate Solder OT pats7393 
    20TB  TB Cam Jordan DL cantstopme 
    21KC  KC Phil Taylor NT ricky12684 
    22Ind  Ind Derick Sherrod OT CaptFox 
    23Phi 31, 63 Pit R. Kerrigan DE Army2LT 
    24NO  NO Corey Liuget DT pats7393 
    25Sea  Sea Mike Pouncey OG digger0862 
    26Bal     Bal Danny Watkins OG/RT LAPats 
    27Atl      Atl                                           Brandon Harris Cb                           ben-umass 
    28NE NEAdrian ClaybornDE/OLBmbeaulieu07 
    29Chi  Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393 
    30NYJ NYJWilkersonDEMbeaulieu07 
    31Pit 23 Phi J. Smith CB pats7393 
    32GB 38 , 103 ARI C. Ponder   Qb CaptFox

    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE45 , #1 in 2012 SF Colin Kaepernick QB PatsEng
    34Buf NoneBufKyle RudolphTEmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Andy Dalton QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Cameron Heyward DE digger0862
    37Cle None CleLeonard Hankerson  Wr CaptFox
    38GB (#32)     
    39Ten     
    40Dal     
    41Was     
    42Hou     
    43Det     
    44Min     
    45SF #33,#145 NE   
    46Den     
    47Oak     
    48StL     
    49Jac     
    50SD     
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60Was (#10)     
    61Chi     
    62SD     
    63Phi (#23)     
    64GB    
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round : Didnt mean to come across as preachy ( especially considering we're talkin about a  pretendy-world mock )    My guess is  BB would be more than happy to toss in a late 4th rndr to secure the 49ers 2012 1st ( Conceivable ~Top 5 pick )  At any rate -  After I make the upcoming Cleveland pick I'll tack the Pats late 4th rounder (#145 )onto the SF/Pats deal to even it out ( with your blessing PatsEng  , of course )
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE]

    lol yeah toss it in no problem. You didn't come off preachy, at the time I was thinking a late pick was going to need to be tossed in but I don't think this mock was going to go past a 3 round mock so I didn't even bother putting thought into the picks involved. I just knew if a QB bidding war was going to happen and knowing SF pension to trade 1st's and having a new HC wanting to make his mark it seems logical for #33 that their 1st in 2012 would be involved. Given next years picks are trade at your own risk a late 4th or maybe a 5th depending on how concerned teams are with next year and 33 seems about right for a mid 2nd this year and a 1st next year.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    Hey PatsEng ...
    We need to get BB on the horn and see if we can get 'er done (lol)

      Its amazing how blessed we are as football fans to have a head coach that gives us so many different angles to enjoy our team .

     Every season - we get to watch seemingly meaningless games involving teams out of our division ( and sometimes even out of our conference all together )and have a real rooting interest against one of the competitors.
     
     I can't wait to see BB spin his magic again in a few weeks .
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ben-umass. Show ben-umass's posts

    Re: Live Mock Draft, Come Make a Pick. 1st round

    have to consider the Eagles moving Kolb to a QB needy team. i could see Arizona giving up just as much for Kolb, a "proven" qb, as they would for a rookie. i think Kolb would be worth about a 2nd rounder, same as the Cassel.
     

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