Mankins

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mankins' problem is that when he screws up it tends to be really bad so we all remember it.  Sure he's probably a bit overpaid (most players that get big contracts are), but he still does a lot of good things for the O-line.

    [/QUOTE]

    Disagree.  Our goal line blocking is also poor to his side.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I assume you're refering to the fourth and one when Ridley ran left and got stuffed? Watch that play again and you'll see Mankins, Solder, and Gronk plow a path for Ridley three yards into the endzone.  Unfortunately Wendell got blown up and the lineman he was supposed to block ended up catching Ridley from behind.  The left side of the line blocked well, but Wendell and Connolly got blown up and allowed a tackle from the backside. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course. It's always the others guys with you, Prolate.  It's never the guys who get paid the most.

    Ugh.

    Never ends.  Keep it up.  We'll be another SB and Manky will be looking like a turnstyle again like he always has in postseasons.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey, what can I do?  It's all on tape for everyone to see.  Ridley gets stuffed because Wendell gets run over.  Mankins meanwhile is driving his man three yards deep into the endzone.  

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Or Mankins missed his assignment, which is a big reason for Brady getting drilled every sack this year, with Mankins being a tunrstile AGAIN.

    You can spin it however you want, but when I see #70 missing his assignment in pass protection or when sealing the block, that's on him, not magically someone else.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    No player is perfect.  But if you watch every play in the game on film, it's pretty obvious who the best interior lineman on the Pats is . . . by a country mile.  

    BB didn't mess up signing Mankins.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I look for patterns in this.  Of course no player is perfect, but when you start to see patterns, it's a problem.

    Mankins has been a turnstile for years now. Years.  It's become worse because he is older, so it shows up more.

    He's gotten by on this tough guy persona and driving his 1986 Ford pick up or whatever it is.

    All I care about is if the player is performing up to expectations and our most priciest players have not been!

    Just deal with it. It's the truth. Brady, Mankins, etc. It's been more frustrating in postseasons with them, too.  I find it unacceptable as a fan who supports the team. Why do you think fans could not stand fat Lackey and the Sox in 2010, 2011, etc, with him then hurting his arm for 2012? Because he was being paid 15 mil per and wasn't performing like it!

    That's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    why does BB continue to sign these players that are over the hill to such large contracts?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, mankins is a good run blocker but he has his issues with quicker dt's that rely on speed to win the battle. if bb is fine with paying 10m to a run blocking guard so be it. I tend to think this money could be allocated better...see Talib.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lifer, do you purchase the coaches film?  It's a bit pricey, but it really is the only way to fairly evaluate O line play.  I don't profess to be a complete expert on the details of O line play or technique, but at least on the film you can see in detail what's happening.  Since I've purchased it, my respect for Mankins has really increased, especially when comparing his play to Connolly's or Wendell's.  The one thing that is noticeable even to a relatively untrained eye like mine is how Mankins hits the D lineman or LB he's blocking square on almost every play.  And he gets him low enough to have good leverage.  Connolly and Wendell by comparison seem to have a lot of off centre hits where they get turned pretty easily by the defender.  I'm not an expert, but you don't have to be to see how much more consistent Mankins is than any other interior O linemen on the Pats' team now in squaring up his defender and keeping control.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No I haven't purchased coaches film. I understand there is a lot we don't see on TV. A link to how I can purchase would be appreciated.

    i get what you are saying but do we really want to compare mankins (who is supposed to be a top 3-5 guard and making 10m next year) to Connolly and Wendell? 

    Rkarp's last post is telling. "Ranked 35th amongst starting guards on pass blocking". That is huge for a guy getting paid like top 5 at his position. No?

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess I wouldn't put too much stock in PFF's rankings.  PFF is quite upfront about the fact that it's writers aren't scouts and don't evaluate technique.  They base their rankings purely on their layman's judgement about whether a player made or missed a block.  That's not totally invalid, but I also wouldn't rely too much on it.  Personally, I trust my own eyes more.  I will try to watch a few other top guards over the next few days to see how I think Mankins compares.  But really, I see so many good plays for every bad one, I'm not too worried I'll be overly disappointed.  Rusty has been on Mankins' case because Rusty called that negotiation wrong (he claimed Mankins would end up losing money).  Since Rusty can never admit he's wrong he's gone into attack mode against Mankins, just as he's doing against RKarp.  Don't let yourself be fooled about the real topic of this thread.  Like so many of Rusty's threads it's really all about Rusty. 

     

    The coaches film is available from NFL.com as part of the Game Rewind package (or, if like me you live outside the US, the Game Pass package). 

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I guess I wouldn't put too much stock in PFF's rankings.  PFF is quite upfront about the fact that it's writers aren't scouts and don't evaluate technique.  They base their rankings purely on their layman's judgement about whether a player made or missed a block.  That's not totally invalid, but I also wouldn't rely too much on it. 



    +1

    My problem with PFF or any of these other "advanced stats" sites is that there are too many plays where without knowing the call it is impossible to know who is at fault for a broken play.  This isn't baseball whose 1v1 batter vs pitcher format makes it much easier to derive "advanced statistics" that have a lot more meaning.  I mean heck PFF graded Talib as one of the worst corners in the NFL last season after he came to NE.  Does anyone actually believe that?  I don't.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mankins

    I think they paid Mankins for alot more than just quality pass protection he's a real competitor and an enforcer on the offensive line ( which I think every team needs). As in if someone goes after another Patriot you know who's going to be there correcting their attitude. It's unfortunate that his penalties are outweighing those qualities right now. It's not just him however I believe Solder simply melts down every so often, he's getting better but it's still an issue in his game. When you address the blind side of the line you can't ignore the LT come on now!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mankins' problem is that when he screws up it tends to be really bad so we all remember it.  Sure he's probably a bit overpaid (most players that get big contracts are), but he still does a lot of good things for the O-line.

    [/QUOTE]

    Disagree.  Our goal line blocking is also poor to his side.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I assume you're refering to the fourth and one when Ridley ran left and got stuffed? Watch that play again and you'll see Mankins, Solder, and Gronk plow a path for Ridley three yards into the endzone.  Unfortunately Wendell got blown up and the lineman he was supposed to block ended up catching Ridley from behind.  The left side of the line blocked well, but Wendell and Connolly got blown up and allowed a tackle from the backside. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course. It's always the others guys with you, Prolate.  It's never the guys who get paid the most.

    Ugh.

    Never ends.  Keep it up.  We'll be another SB and Manky will be looking like a turnstyle again like he always has in postseasons.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey, what can I do?  It's all on tape for everyone to see.  Ridley gets stuffed because Wendell gets run over.  Mankins meanwhile is driving his man three yards deep into the endzone.  

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Or Mankins missed his assignment, which is a big reason for Brady getting drilled every sack this year, with Mankins being a tunrstile AGAIN.

    You can spin it however you want, but when I see #70 missing his assignment in pass protection or when sealing the block, that's on him, not magically someone else.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    No player is perfect.  But if you watch every play in the game on film, it's pretty obvious who the best interior lineman on the Pats is . . . by a country mile.  

    BB didn't mess up signing Mankins.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I look for patterns in this.  Of course no player is perfect, but when you start to see patterns, it's a problem.

    Mankins has been a turnstile for years now. Years.  It's become worse because he is older, so it shows up more.

    He's gotten by on this tough guy persona and driving his 1986 Ford pick up or whatever it is.

    All I care about is if the player is performing up to expectations and our most priciest players have not been!

    Just deal with it. It's the truth. Brady, Mankins, etc. It's been more frustrating in postseasons with them, too.  I find it unacceptable as a fan who supports the team. Why do you think fans could not stand fat Lackey and the Sox in 2010, 2011, etc, with him then hurting his arm for 2012? Because he was being paid 15 mil per and wasn't performing like it!

    That's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    why does BB continue to sign these players that are over the hill to such large contracts?

    [/QUOTE]

    Mankins was not over the hill at age 28.  Please specifiy who is given a bloated deal as "over the hill".

    Thanks.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mankins is now 31 years old, and is showing signs of decline, or injury. He is on the books for 2014,15,16 at a cap hit of $10M per year

    Brady is now 36 years old and is on the books into his 40 year old year with cap hits of $15 million per in 2015, 16, 17

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mankins

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I look for patterns in this.  Of course no player is perfect, but when you start to see patterns, it's a problem.

    Mankins has been a turnstile for years now. Years.  It's become worse because he is older, so it shows up more.

    He's gotten by on this tough guy persona and driving his 1986 Ford pick up or whatever it is.

    All I care about is if the player is performing up to expectations and our most priciest players have not been!

    Just deal with it. It's the truth. Brady, Mankins, etc. It's been more frustrating in postseasons with them, too.  I find it unacceptable as a fan who supports the team. Why do you think fans could not stand fat Lackey and the Sox in 2010, 2011, etc, with him then hurting his arm for 2012? Because he was being paid 15 mil per and wasn't performing like it!

    That's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    Rusty I'm not gettin after you here...I really can't be bother with that anymore but what on earth do you want? A superbowl annually they're da mn hard to come by those Lombardi trophies the stars seemingly have to line up to earn one. This is such a moot thread, if signing Mankins was a poor decision then what on earth was the decision to give Hernandez an extension? Brady isn't perfect or Mankins and i'm sorry to have to tell you this neither is Belichick

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mankins' problem is that when he screws up it tends to be really bad so we all remember it.  Sure he's probably a bit overpaid (most players that get big contracts are), but he still does a lot of good things for the O-line.

    [/QUOTE]

    Disagree.  Our goal line blocking is also poor to his side.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I assume you're refering to the fourth and one when Ridley ran left and got stuffed? Watch that play again and you'll see Mankins, Solder, and Gronk plow a path for Ridley three yards into the endzone.  Unfortunately Wendell got blown up and the lineman he was supposed to block ended up catching Ridley from behind.  The left side of the line blocked well, but Wendell and Connolly got blown up and allowed a tackle from the backside. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course. It's always the others guys with you, Prolate.  It's never the guys who get paid the most.

    Ugh.

    Never ends.  Keep it up.  We'll be another SB and Manky will be looking like a turnstyle again like he always has in postseasons.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey, what can I do?  It's all on tape for everyone to see.  Ridley gets stuffed because Wendell gets run over.  Mankins meanwhile is driving his man three yards deep into the endzone.  

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Or Mankins missed his assignment, which is a big reason for Brady getting drilled every sack this year, with Mankins being a tunrstile AGAIN.

    You can spin it however you want, but when I see #70 missing his assignment in pass protection or when sealing the block, that's on him, not magically someone else.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    No player is perfect.  But if you watch every play in the game on film, it's pretty obvious who the best interior lineman on the Pats is . . . by a country mile.  

    BB didn't mess up signing Mankins.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I look for patterns in this.  Of course no player is perfect, but when you start to see patterns, it's a problem.

    Mankins has been a turnstile for years now. Years.  It's become worse because he is older, so it shows up more.

    He's gotten by on this tough guy persona and driving his 1986 Ford pick up or whatever it is.

    All I care about is if the player is performing up to expectations and our most priciest players have not been!

    Just deal with it. It's the truth. Brady, Mankins, etc. It's been more frustrating in postseasons with them, too.  I find it unacceptable as a fan who supports the team. Why do you think fans could not stand fat Lackey and the Sox in 2010, 2011, etc, with him then hurting his arm for 2012? Because he was being paid 15 mil per and wasn't performing like it!

    That's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    why does BB continue to sign these players that are over the hill to such large contracts?

    [/QUOTE]

    Mankins was not over the hill at age 28.  Please specifiy who is given a bloated deal as "over the hill".

    Thanks.

    [/QUOTE]

    Mankins is now 31 years old, and is showing signs of decline, or injury. He is on the books for 2014,15,16 at a cap hit of $10M per year

    Brady is now 36 years old and is on the books into his 40 year old year with cap hits of $15 million per in 2015, 16, 17

    [/QUOTE]

    You said over the hill at 28 when he was signed in 2010. That's false.  They can cut Mankins and not take cap hits like you are claiming either.  The money was mostly paid up front with the team protecting itself on the back end. They can cut Mankins and he'll never see what you are claiming he is guaranteed.

    Nice try, Mr. Sneaky.

    Now, one last chance, what player over 30 do they go out and give a massive contract to in FA?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Mankins dead money

    2014-$8m

    2015-$4M

    Brady dead money numbers are worse

    2015-$18M

    2016-$12M

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mankins

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The decision to give Hernandez or Gronk early 2nd deals was to keep BOTH and cut them off at the FA pass, so to speak.  

    Logic is very sound. Obviously, with Hernandez's off field choices, that does not look that way, but the logic is sound.  They would have chosen Gronk and walked form Hern. If Hern did not go crazy and was great through 2014, and then walked with a massive deal elsewhere, some here would have completely bashed BB for it.  That's the truth.

    My analysis is, if you start to negotiate with a Manky or a Welkie and they go the hilt in negotiations, all greedy, not accepting  a fair offer, that is a red flag to me. Major red flag. I suggested shopping Welker in 2012. Who knows if they did, but if someone offered a 1st for Welker in summer of 2012, you take it and run and promote Edelman.  Simple.

    BB sniffed it out with Seymour, so he fleeced Al Davis for a 1st rder.  Who knows if Manky was shopped in the summer of 2010, but if he wasn't, I disagree with not doing so.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well if that's the way it was then that's perfect logic however I don't agree with the Hern analysis he fleeced the team although as we've found out since the signs were there through out his time at miami and through out his time in NE. I think they felt the risk was worth the reward and unfortunately it wasn't but it wasn't BB at his smartest. They locked down a troubled player for reasonable money even though he was by all means a superstar in the making. The offense was set for majority of the next ten years riding the greatest red zone threat of all time and a master at earning the yards to move the chains in Gronk and Hern respectively with the addition of Amendola (Edelman filling in when injured) and the progression of Ridley and Vereen the team was set for play-off football regardless of who was throwing the ball.

    The Mankins issue is one that I agree with following the Welker episode this off season. If they slight the team they should be gone it's against the Patriot way and they're paid much to much as it is. In defense of BB at the time that half season in 2010 was outstanding by Mankins he was fierce he set he tone and he was stuffing guys... really a great audition for a big contract on top of that he was 28, BB won't give a big contract to an over 30 year old with one very rare exception is Brady. I'll give BB the benefit of the doubt on Mankins and just hope he improves dramatically before Play-off time if the team gets in...really all that can be done at this point!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Welkie was passive aggressive saying " I am taking a leap of faith" while being paid 9.25 million and turning down 16 million GUARANTEED.

    [/QUOTE]

    How about cleaning up these numbers?  They are posted in a misleading fashion.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mankins

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Yes, you were in on the "Kraft is cheap" rallies on here, whining about not paying Brady enough, Mankins and Wilfork.  Yes you were.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    LIAR! Never said any of that that imbecile.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    yes, you did

    BB has never done anything right in your mind, including being the human who drafted Brady himself.

    lmao

    [/QUOTE]


    Find it or zip your yap, LIAR.

    I've praised BB on a number of good moves, LIAR.

    He got lucky with the Brady pick, and others deserve more credit for the find. Simple as that, LIAR.

     

Share