Mel Kipers of the world.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYPat. Show NYPat's posts

    Mel Kipers of the world.

    Just goes to show you what Mel Kipers of the world really know about draftimg - No wonder none of them actually work witha team.

    In BB I trust, until proven wrong.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828c1cdc/article/jets-cursed-out-seahawks-after-they-grabbed-bruce-irvin?module=HP11_headline_stack
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    WHat's hilarious about this is:

    Pete "Jazzed" Carroll took Irvin way too high and the Jets liked the idea, only to see the Jets pick Vernon Gholston Part II.

    LMAO
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    "Mel Kipers of the World"

    Wasn't that a song by The Smith's?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    If you want to prove that Kiper is wrong maybe you shouldn't cite an article that quotes a team known for taking busts in the first round (ala Gholston) as saying why Kiper is wrong >.<

    Sometimes I weep for humanity
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    Anyone could have seen Gholston as a bust and Kiper sometimes is like a blind squirrel anyway. Even he finds a nut once in a while.  Like the Jets with Revis or Mangold.

    lol
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    I would use Irvin as a rusher sure, but he's very quick and has great hands and instincts so I would try him as a safety sometimes as he's only 240 lbs. If they use his talent he very well could play on D full time. He's a little bigger than a normal safety but he's as quick and skilled at ball handling so why not. He could raise holy hell as a safety blitzer for sure. Rushing him as an end full time won't work in the long run. He way too talented to only play in pass rushing situations so try and let him use his immense talent. I think he's a good pick.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYPat. Show NYPat's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world.:
    [QUOTE]If you want to prove that Kiper is wrong maybe you shouldn't cite an article that quotes a team known for taking busts in the first round (ala Gholston) as saying why Kiper is wrong />.< Sometimes I weep for humanity
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    That is the whole point. Even Rex R is a better draft picker than Mel Kipers. But people like you still want to trust Kipers over BB.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    Kiper is a typical 'expert' who never coached or managed a football team himself.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world.:
    [QUOTE]Anyone could have seen Gholston as a bust and Kiper sometimes is like a blind squirrel anyway. Even he finds a nut once in a while.  Like the Jets with Revis or Mangold. lol
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    I have to disagree with u here.  Many on this board wanted Gholston.  He flew up boards post combine and never looked back.  Hindsight is 20/20, but to think anyone could have seen it is absurd. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world. : That is the whole point. Even Rex R is a better draft picker than Mel Kipers. But people like you still want to trust Kipers over BB.
    Posted by NYPat[/QUOTE]

    ROFL I don't trust Kiper worth a lick. I trust my own eyes and Mayock to a degree. What my eyes tell me was this kid was a mid round pick at best and Mayock didn't have him pegged to round 7. Mayock is also more accurate then some teams GM's so I do trust him. There are also reports from former GM's that question taking Wilson that high too, so it's not just Kiper. I don't think many people question Wilson as a player, as he does fill a need and has versatile to move around in the secondary I think for the most part the question stems from where he was taken.

    But I guess it's people like you who felt Chad Jackson, Cunningham, Butler, Brace, Wheatley were great picks too. BB hits on some players considered reaches and sometimes miss on reaches and players who were slotted to go in the same spot. Questioning a move as a reach is just that until the player proves they can play and then you can say one way or another but considering BB's history when it comes to perceived reaches it's 50/50 whether this kid will be a starter or a bust, so please don't act like BB is always right and should never be questioned.

    With that said I would still give this draft a -A/A grade. I really liked the players he brought in, I just question if he could have gotten better value at #48. If you tell me that they couldn't trade out of #48 and Wilson was the highest rated CB/FS on their board and they weren't convinced they could trade out of #62 then it is what it is and grab the player you think can fill the biggest weakness with whatever pick you have, but if you tell me they could have traded back from #62 or they had other players rated higher (not S but DL or WR or RB) and they took this kid thinking they could get him at #62 then you do have to question the move.
     
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    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    Cunningham missed last season.  You can't judge a mid 2nd rd pick who had a solid rookie year as someone who didn't do anything.  We'll see on Cunningham in camp this year. He's got plenty of company now.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world. : I have to disagree with u here.  Many on this board wanted Gholston.  He flew up boards post combine and never looked back.  Hindsight is 20/20, but to think anyone could have seen it is absurd. 
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    Well there were a number of people who wanted him and there were other people who I remember keep saying that his production in college didn't line up with his combine numbers. Not everyone was blinded by triangle numbers, esp after Watson. Actually I remember both MB and I not wanting him specifically because he was a workout warrior. And, actually I think MB wanted Mayo in the early 2nd round. Personally I wanted Ellis or Rivers. Rivers did make me look like a fool but at least he had the college numbers to back it up
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world.:
    [QUOTE]Cunningham missed last season.  You can't judge a mid 2nd rd pick who had a solid rookie year as someone who didn't do anything.  We'll see on Cunningham in camp this year. He's got plenty of company now.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Cunningham was an average rotational player his rookie year and obviously took steps backwards his sophomore year. Given they drafted 2 elephants (which was his role) then I would say that they aren't confident in him either.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    He was learning 3-4 OLB, hence why he was a rotational player. How many 4-3 DEs who learn a 3-4 under a spotlight, do you see starting towards the end of a 14-2 season? I am not saying he was even good, but he showed some good steady improvement which is what I look for with any player outside of Rd 1 as a rookie.

    For example, I expect Jones and Hightower to be starters.

    I agree on the injury last year being a problem, but you don't know how he'll look coming back.    He's in the 2nd rd Butler mold right now.  If he doesn't look like a role player here as a DE/OLB guy, he won't be here in 2012.

    People are so quick to cast off players as they adjust to the NFL. I just think it's childish to act like any pick past the 1st rd is somehow this really good player immediately.

    And yes, on the Gholston thing, he appeared to be one of those roid cases and workout warriors which is why it was hilarious any Pats fan wanted him here. BB totally duped Tannenbaum on that. BB mentioned him pre-draft and many took the bait, including the dorky green team down in New Jersey.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.

    In Response to Re: Mel Kipers of the world.:
    [QUOTE]He was learning 3-4 OLB, hence why he was a rotational player. How many 4-3 DEs who learn a 3-4 under a spotlight, do you see starting towards the end of a 14-2 season? I am not saying he was even good, but he showed some good steady improvement which is what I look for with any player outside of Rd 1 as a rookie. For example, I expect Jones and Hightower to be starters. I agree on the injury last year being a problem, but you don't know how he'll look coming back.    He's in the 2nd rd Butler mold right now.  If he doesn't look like a role player here as a DE/OLB guy, he won't be here in 2012. People are so quick to cast off players as they adjust to the NFL. I just think it's childish to act like any pick past the 1st rd is somehow this really good player immediately. And yes, on the Gholston thing, he appeared to be one of those roid cases and workout warriors which is why it was hilarious any Pats fan wanted him here. BB totally duped Tannenbaum on that. BB mentioned him pre-draft and many took the bait, including the dorky green team down in New Jersey.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    I did give him a break for learning a new position his rookie year and he did seem to improve. I base my judgement on what I saw in the 11' preseason, the coaches lack of trust in him when he was on the field, and how badly his play dropped off in 11'. He was the exact opposite in 11' then he was in 10'. Instead of steady improvement he was regressing. If they drafted just Jones or just Bequette then I would say that he could further develop and maybe last year was just a bad year. But, since they drafted both it tells me they don't have a ton of faith in him recovering from last years regression or at least to the point where he'd be anything more then a role player.

    To me if you are drafted in the 1st you should be a starter immediately-1yr after you are drafted, if you are drafted in the 2nd you should be a starter within 2-3 yrs of being drafted, if you are drafted in hte 3rd or 4th I expect a solid role player/back up that has a chance to be a starter at some point, and 5th or later there are no expectations. I don't think that's unreasonable to think. Now I only expect top 20 picks to be pro-bowlers so anything past then is a bonus but solid starters who contribute I think you can find going into the 3rd. Again not talking all-pro's just guys you can count on to go out, be a starter, and not lose you games. I don't think teams look for role players or backups in the 2nd, I still think they are looking for starters or players that can make impacts in their role (Dunlap for example)
     
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    Re: Mel Kipers of the world.


    Cunningham wasn't all that impressive in his rookie year either, but remember he was hurt in camp that year so he didn't have much of a preseason.  Injuries have hampered this kid.  That said, I haven't seen all that much from him, either as a pass rusher or a run defender.  He also hasn't looked great with his hand off the ground and I'm not sure he can drop back into coverage. 

    Still, given the injuries last year and in his rookie year, I don't think we yet know. The one thing I will say, at 260 he's probably too light to be a typical 3-4 run-stopping, two-gap DE, which means he's got to either be a good pass rusher and penetrator or be able to play standing up as a LB if he's going to make the team.  

     

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