More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    I said long ago and stand by my assertion that
    Manning is not to be blamed for the last 2
    playoff losses.


    I suppose in the 07 playoffs Manning did not
    bear the total blame, though he did throw 2 INTs.
    The Chargers (led by backup Billy Volek)
    torched the Colts defense, and Peyton did have
    a decent game. But how can you not blame this
    last loss on him? With a lead and under three
    minutes left in the game, he failed to make two
    yards for a first down which would have iced
    the game. Though he wasn't statistically as
    bad as he's been historically in the playoffs,
    he failed to come through in the clutch. Also,
    he only managed to put up 17 points against
    a Chargers defense which was awful against
    the pass. And even in 06 he only really played
    one half of good football in the playoffs...against
    the backups of the Patriots in the AFCCG.
    His games against both the Chiefs and Ravens
    were terrible. If you want to believe the Colts
    defense let them down so much in the past,
    you'd have to give them the credit for the one
    Lombardi they did win! But the facts are there.
    Nine trips to the playoffs, six "one-and-done's",
    two second round exits, and one SB win. And
    though Peyton gor the MVP for that game, Rex
    Grossman did more for the colts in Miami than
    Manning did. Addai and Rhodes should have
    split that MVP, IMO.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Bub:

    Don't waste your breath on Dogg, a/k/a "m". Facts are of no interest to him. He lives in a fantasyland where Tony Dungy is Zeus, and Peyton flys over his kingdom on the back of Puff, the Magic Dragon.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Well put bub.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Need still more proof that Peyton Manning is overrated?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26463-peyton-manning-overrated-or-underrated

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Will-Redd. Show Will-Redd's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Manning's stats are meaningless to me. The Colts are on TV all the time and, it doesn't matter who their opponent is, the ref's keep giving him play after play. Peyton Manning without the Michael Jordan rules would not have very memorable numbers.

    Thank goodness there is a thread now where we can talk about Tom and Giselle.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    z
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]
    Need still more proof that Peyton Manning is overrated?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26463-peyton-manning-overrated-or-underrated
    [/Quote]

    There you go defining opinion as fact. Didn't you learn anything in school?

    First rating a QB is opinion to begin with. While some opinions may have been proved wrong (the world is flat), there is no such ability in this discussion.

    First TP (i'll try to be decent), upon what opinion, specifically, are you basing you basing your arguement. Who specifically has stated that manning is "rated" higher than YOU think he should be.

    I am taking your perspective as if it is conventional wisdom that Manning is the best QB ever, or something of the sort. Is this correct?

    Is it his 3 regular season MVP's? His multiple commercials? The accolades he receives from the media, coaches and players? Where specifically are you drawing your opinion that other rate manning at a level beyond where you believe he should be?

    Once we get to the bottom of this then I think we have a basis for discussion. Don't you?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    . . . and several butcher's aprons.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    There we have it. In a world governed by Dolt Dog, a "Great QB" can be described as follows: A QB that takes advantage of whatever the defense is showing him, throwing for a high completion percentage, with a high TD to INT ratio. In "BIG" games, this can all be discounted as long as 1 receiver drops a pass. Or, when a post season INT is immediately blamed on a reveiver running the wrong route. Or, if a turnover occurs, it's only because of an "offensive line malfunction". (Please note: One can always use the "Idiot Kicker" excuse, but when a game tying/winning FG is missed at any time in the game. You know, the "just in case" clause.)

    LMFAO! Dolt Dog = King of the Excusers!

    Manning never could handle a big game, as witnessed by his illustrious college career. He graciously accepted the NFL's "gift" two years ago, and took his razor sharp arm to Disney World. Now we can all enjoy and relish his ongoing "malfunctions". Enjoy the hollow stats, and you'll be talking how "25 years ago" you were there for Old Horse Face's one and only SB triumph.

    Still LMFAO!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][Quote]
    Need still more proof that Peyton Manning is overrated?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26463-peyton-manning-overrated-or-underrated
    [/Quote]

    There you go defining opinion as fact. Didn't you learn anything in school?

    First rating a QB is opinion to begin with. While some opinions may have been proved wrong (the world is flat), there is no such ability in this discussion.

    First TP (i'll try to be decent), upon what opinion, specifically, are you basing you basing your arguement. Who specifically has stated that manning is "rated" higher than YOU think he should be.

    I am taking your perspective as if it is conventional wisdom that Manning is the best QB ever, or something of the sort. Is this correct?

    Is it his 3 regular season MVP's? His multiple commercials? The accolades he receives from the media, coaches and players? Where specifically are you drawing your opinion that other rate manning at a level beyond where you believe he should be?

    Once we get to the bottom of this then I think we have a basis for discussion. Don't you?[/Quote]

    Old Horse Face is all fluff. Daddy Manning built this tremdous PR machine to shove this underachieving goof ball on the public. He and B Hussein Obama are absolute proof that John Q Public is, basically a lemming, and will follow anything they want to hear, which is not reality. God knows he's done NOTHING based on his ability to win championships. Let's not confuse one SB championship as defining greatness. After all, he's tied with Trent Dilfer and other "One and Done" SB winning QB's. Bet that just GAULS you. Better QB's in NFL history have achieved much more,a nd yet we all know them only from what they did on the field and not via sucking the cream out of Oreos, or earning MasterCard points. Guys like Staubach, Starr, Bradshaw come to mind.

    Enjoy your Double Stuffs and Hot Chocolate cow juice. I hear that Nabisco is going to start outting Manning Excuses in every package, to be used when Mommy or Daddy bust you for eating cookies before dinner. My favorite is that the cookie "Ran the wrong route and I just HAD to grab it!"

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]I said long ago and stand by my assertion that
    Manning is not to be blamed for the last 2
    playoff losses.


    I suppose in the 07 playoffs Manning did not
    bear the total blame, though he did throw 2 INTs.
    The Chargers (led by backup Billy Volek)
    torched the Colts defense, and Peyton did have
    a decent game. But how can you not blame this
    last loss on him? With a lead and under three
    minutes left in the game, he failed to make two
    yards for a first down which would have iced
    the game. Though he wasn't statistically as
    bad as he's been historically in the playoffs,
    he failed to come through in the clutch. Also,
    he only managed to put up 17 points against
    a Chargers defense which was awful against
    the pass. And even in 06 he only really played
    one half of good football in the playoffs...against
    the backups of the Patriots in the AFCCG.
    His games against both the Chiefs and Ravens
    were terrible. If you want to believe the Colts
    defense let them down so much in the past,
    you'd have to give them the credit for the one
    Lombardi they did win! But the facts are there.
    Nine trips to the playoffs, six "one-and-done's",
    two second round exits, and one SB win. And
    though Peyton gor the MVP for that game, Rex
    Grossman did more for the colts in Miami than
    Manning did. Addai and Rhodes should have
    split that MVP, IMO.[/Quote]

    Good points bub and I will be happy to answer them. You may not agree with my perspective, and I understand that but this is how I see it.

    07 - Manning's first pick was at the end of the first half less than 30 seconds to go. Manning threw deep - 20+ yds. The pass was high but catchable and off of both of wayne's hands. It was intercepted on the SD 10. Half over.

    2nd int was at the SD 5. colts about to score. Screen pass to Kenton keith right at his face mask. Ball off both hands and falls into the SD player's hands.

    If an NFL receiver can put both hands on a ball, it should be caught. The keith INT was inexcusable.

    In this year's game, the 3rd and 2 was both a missed block and a coverage sack. Here is the link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BinopmNh5uk

    Watch at 2:18 of the video. Manning's receiver is covered, the block is missed and the blitzer gets to manning unabated. Seriously, this is one game where I actually believe the colts were beaten. The colts field position was ridiculous.

    Just the way I see it.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Underdogg,

    Glad to see your more respectful tone. You don't have to call people names to have a good discussion. Keep it up.

    I don't know why you're reverting to explaining away individual plays, as if the mistakes of other players in those plays are the reason the Colts lost. We all know how many random goofs happen in every game. A good QB is able to overcome them.

    By your logic, Brady isn't responsible for the 2006 loss in the AFCCG because Caldwell should have caught that pass for a TD but dropped it. But Brady should have been able to overcome that, especially since he had earlier had the ball late in the 2nd quarter with a 21-3 lead. But he failed. See, Brady isn't perfect either, and we don't have to blame other people for this play or that to see it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][Quote]
    Need still more proof that Peyton Manning is overrated?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26463-peyton-manning-overrated-or-underrated
    [/Quote]

    There you go defining opinion as fact. Didn't you learn anything in school?

    RESPONSE: Didn't I learn anything in school?? How dense can you be? Once again, you refuse to accept the facts. Manning has a losing record in playoff games, and has "led" his talent ladened offenses to less than 2 TDs per game in 15 playoff games.

    First rating a QB is opinion to begin with. While some opinions may have been proved wrong (the world is flat), there is no such ability in this discussion.

    RESPONSE: Correct...but only if you choose to ignore the facts stated above! His record in the playoffs is a concrete fact...as is the 13.6 points per game average per playoff game. Its' as if you choose to ignore all the satelite pictures sent from space in order to maintain your opinion that the Earth is flat.

    First TP (i'll try to be decent), upon what opinion, specifically, are you basing you basing your arguement. Who specifically has stated that manning is "rated" higher than YOU think he should be.

    RESPONSE: High time you've chosen a more reasoned tone.
    Again, I'm basing my opinion on facts. For example, would you consider the Detroit Lions to be a good football team? Of course you wouldn't. Why? Because their record was 0-16. "Christ in Cleat's" record in the playoffs is 7-8, and he has performed far better in the regular season than in the big games in January. From that, what do you conclude? Is that the mark of one of the greatest QBs of all-time? Hell no.

    I am taking your perspective as if it is conventional wisdom that Manning is the best QB ever, or something of the sort. Is this correct?

    RESPONSE: According to ESPN and the national media, their collective wisdom is that Mr. Wonderful is the greatest...or one of the greatest, QBs of all-time. How can that be when the guy constantly chokes in playoff games? Wouldn't you agree that how a QB performs in these games is what separates the good QBs from the great QBs?

    Is it his 3 regular season MVP's? His multiple commercials? The accolades he receives from the media, coaches and players? Where specifically are you drawing your opinion that other rate manning at a level beyond where you believe he should be?

    RESPONSE: From all of the above. The facts simply don't support his deified status.

    Once we get to the bottom of this then I think we have a basis for discussion. Don't you?

    RESPONSE:

    Peyton Manning is one of the best REGULAR SEASON QBs of all-time. But, thats' where it ends.
    Manning has had the good fortune to have been very well protected for most of his career by an outstanding OL, and has had a devastating stash of offensive weapons at his disposal...from Marshall Faulk, to Edge, to Addai, to Marvin Harrison, to Brandon Stokely (who was Wes Welker before Wes Welker) to Reggie Wayne, to Dallas Clark...all of these guys are or were star calibre players.
    Now Compare and contrast those guys to the skill players that Tom Brady had to work with up to 2007: David Patton (free agent), Troy Brown (8th round draft choice), David Givens (7th round draft choice), Deion Branch, Reche Caldwell (free agent), and Jabar Gaffney (free agent). Yet, Brady is 15-3 in the playoffs, and has won 3 SBs.

    Any further questions, Grasshopper?


    [/Quote]

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Heres' still more evidence on how overrated ol' Horseface is: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/94800-peyton-manning-
    lets-all-hold-our-horses
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctpat. Show ctpat's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    peyton and brady are the 2 premier qbs of the last decade. i would say brady gets the nod because he has 3 rings compared to 1, but to call either overrated it a joke.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]peyton and brady are the 2 premier qbs of the last decade. i would say brady gets the nod because he has 3 rings compared to 1, but to call either overrated it a joke.[/Quote]

    Brady is 15-3 in the playoffs and has 3 rings...Manning has played with far better offensive talent, yet his team has only been able to muster a mere 13.6 points per playoff game...and Manning is 7-8 in the playoffs, with one referree aide ring.

    Putting Manning in the same conversation with Brady, Montana, and Starr is a joke.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Tex,

    You're a little harsh. He won his super bowl fair and square. Quit blaming the refs. A good team will win with our without the refs (like our team did against the Colts in 2007, when they dished out 140+ penalties against us but we still won). I don't even know what the refs did for Manning in the Super Bowl. The bottom line is that he led his team to victory and should be congratulated.

    Nevertheless, it's only one ring, which is good but not great. Or great, but not all-time great.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]Tex,

    You're a little harsh. He won his super bowl fair and square. Quit blaming the refs. A good team will win with our without the refs (like our team did against the Colts in 2007, when they dished out 140+ penalties against us but we still won). [/Quote]

    Aren't you forgetting the BS offensive pass interference call against Troy Brown as the Patriots, already leading 21-3, were going in for the kill...and the even worse PI call on Ellis Hobbs, which handed the Colts a TD. That call was so bad that the NFL wrote a letter of apology (for what good it did) to the Patriots after the game.

    No...I don't think that I'm being harsh at all.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    I'll stick with this commercial's analysis to sum up what divides the good and the great QB's.

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&resnum=0&q=%E2%80%98Joe%27s%20Diner%E2%80%99%20Ad&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#hl=en&resnum=0&q=%E2%80%98Joe%27s%20Diner%E2%80%99%20Ad&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv&start=10
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]

    Aren't you forgetting the BS offensive pass interference call against Troy Brown as the Patriots, already leading 21-3, were going in for the kill...and the even worse PI call on Ellis Hobbs, which handed the Colts a TD. That call was so bad that the NFL wrote a letter of apology (for what good it did) to the Patriots after the game.

    No...I don't think that I'm being harsh at all.[/Quote]

    Actually it was a illegal pick called against Troy Brown that nullified a Watson first down at the Colts 18 with under 4 minutes to play. IMHO that was the turning point in the game. Pats score there especially a TD and leave the Colts no time to march down and get that half ending FG, Pats win. However it was called after another penalty Brady gets sacked and the rest was history.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Damn google video URL's here's the video on You Tube that I posted earlier.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn6x7HJvfrA
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]Underdogg,

    Glad to see your more respectful tone. You don't have to call people names to have a good discussion. Keep it up.

    I don't know why you're reverting to explaining away individual plays, as if the mistakes of other players in those plays are the reason the Colts lost. We all know how many random goofs happen in every game. A good QB is able to overcome them.

    By your logic, Brady isn't responsible for the 2006 loss in the AFCCG because Caldwell should have caught that pass for a TD but dropped it. But Brady should have been able to overcome that, especially since he had earlier had the ball late in the 2nd quarter with a 21-3 lead. But he failed. See, Brady isn't perfect either, and we don't have to blame other people for this play or that to see it.[/Quote]

    Mighty - specific plays are identified because TP wants to specifically lay all of the blame at manning's feet.

    I have said many times before that no other game is a team game like football - not baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc. Yes, the QB is the most important cog, but the QB does not play defense or special teams. The pundits (which TP both loves and hates, depending on whether the opinion is pro or anti pats, pro or anti colts, manning, etc) have decided that the QB deserves all the glory and all the blame which is not essentially true. On every offensive play there are 21 other players involved. None as important as the QB, but collectively, significantly more important than the QB.

    Re: Brady and his AFCCG loss, I cannot comment completely, but yes that drop by Caldwell was critical and not Brady's fault. As for overcoming, Brady got another play, right? When int's occur off the hands of the receiver, the QB does not get another play, at least not right away.

    My point still stands that manning's games in the last 2 playoff losses were good enough to win those games.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]

    Aren't you forgetting the BS offensive pass interference call against Troy Brown as the Patriots, already leading 21-3, were going in for the kill...and the even worse PI call on Ellis Hobbs, which handed the Colts a TD. That call was so bad that the NFL wrote a letter of apology (for what good it did) to the Patriots after the game.

    No...I don't think that I'm being harsh at all.[/Quote]

    Tex, think about what you're saying. You're saying that our team was so bad, we couldn't hang on to a 21-3 lead because of two penalties? Good teams overcome penalties. We didn't. It was our fault.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    "My point still stands that manning's games in the last 2 playoff losses were good enough to win those games."

    Dogg, that simply doesn't make any sense. If a QB plays well enough to win, that means his team wins. It doesn't matter if the D gives up 100 points, if your QB doesn't put up 101 points, he didn't play well enough to win the game. And I'm not singling out the QB here, it goes for everyone (e.g. the guard didn't block well enough to win the game, etc).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    TP - I will respond later, but unless you want the same as you got before, the grasshopper bs better be the last.
     

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