Most important Defensive player...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Most important Defensive player...

    Many people would probably say Vince or Jerod, or maybe even Merriweather as the most important defensive players on the Pat's current roster. I am here to tell you it is none of these players. The other Brandon is the guy in my opinion. Let me tell you why I think McGowan is the guy they need to lock up long term. Jerod went down for a few weeks early on this season and while the D took a dip in play, we were still pretty competitive with Guyton at the helm. We have seen time and time again BB likes to mix up the defensive fronts. If we take Vince off the field we can switch to a 4-3, even though I think we all prefer the 3-4, and still be effective against run and actually seem to put more pressure on QBs in passing situations. As for Merriweather, and his improved play, of course some of it is him improving each year and what not, but it has to be directly related to McGowan's presence on the field. McGowan is an upgrade over Sanders, who is a solid safety but not a game changer. McGowan is playing that Rodney type position where its kind of a Safety/LB hybrid. He is up playing the run and also covering TEs up the seams and in the flats. This gives extra help to the DL and LB in run support and also take Merriweather out of the box and lets him be that "centerfielder" type of safety he is supposed to be. Wonder why you have been reading and hearing the Merriweather and Ed Reed comparisons lately? Its because McGowan presence and what he bring to the table is letting him be that playmaker. If McGowan goes down or is lost to FA after the season, we either hope Pat Chung emerges and takes over the role or we find another Rodney/McGowan type of safety. Otherwise we will get to see Merriweather knocked 5 yards back by TEs and RBs on 3rd and 15 in overtime.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    Great thoughts but Vincent allows all the others to get their work done.  Vincent is the enforcer.  He stands his ground and all else flows nicely.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    With more and more teams moving to the spread type of offense, less emphasis placed on running the ball and more on stopping the pass. Look at all the elite teams in the NFL, Colts, Saints, Pats, even the Steelers, Vikings and Giants who are known as running teams are nothing without their passing game. Willie Parker goes down and Big Ben steps up and throws for 400 yds and gets the win. The Vikes are now SB contenders because Farve brings a 300 yard passing game to their offense. The NFL used to have "Run the Ball and Stop the Run" motto. Its not changing to "Pass the Ball and Stop the Pass" it already has changed. The top teams have realized this, Offenses with the "spread" and the Defenses either with a very good secondary or very good pass rushers. Stopping the run is secondary to all this.

    Wilfork is a run stopper. Very good one at that. We do not need Wilfork moving forward after the season. Hopefully Bill franchises him and moves him for two first rounders to some unsuspecting team that still thinks stopping the run is better tactic than stopping the pass.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 617AcrossDaBoard. Show 617AcrossDaBoard's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    Oh trust and believe we need Wilfork or a body his size & talent level at that size if you want to continue to run an effective 3-4.  3-4 DT's don't grow on trees.  Cody should be but Suh (the more talented of the 2) isn't a 3-4 DT. 

    As far as the most important defensive player goes, i believe that varies on the situations.  Who we're playing, where we're playing, and weather all effect who we depend on most on a given Sunday.  Defense is made up of some many parts that go hand & hand.  A great pass rush can make a mediocre secondary look good.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    In Response to Re: Most important Defensive player...:
    [QUOTE]Oh trust and believe we need Wilfork or a body his size & talent level at that size if you want to continue to run an effective 3-4.  3-4 DT's don't grow on trees.  Cody should be but Suh (the more talented of the 2) isn't a 3-4 DT.  As far as the most important defensive player goes, i believe that varies on the situations.  Who we're playing, where we're playing, and weather all effect who we depend on most on a given Sunday.  Defense is made up of some many parts that go hand & hand.  A great pass rush can make a mediocre secondary look good.
    Posted by 617AcrossDaBoard[/QUOTE]

    I agree with everything you said here, but at the same time the pass rush I'd say is somewhere between Decent and Good. Also, a good secondary makes the pass rush looks better as well. I believe every player has to compliment one another. On defense positions more so compliment one another. I am definitely for moving VW for two first rounders, because I know we can still play an effective pass rushing 3-4 with Wright, Pryor (if he continues to progress) and Warren at DL knowing I have the speed and tackling ability in LBs Mayo and Guyton.

    The safety position has become too important in the passing game to let a guy like McGowan go in the offseason. VW will demand top draft picks if we franchise him. McGowan not so much, even though McGowan helps much more in the passing game. As I pointed out abve, if you pass the ball well and stop the pass you will win games in the NFL.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    to a run a 3-4 you need a dominating nose tackle. We have that in Wilfork. The pats basicaly picked him over Richard Seymour, by trading seymour, therefore having enough money to sign wilfork. Would the patriots have the done same for Brandon Mcgowan? nope, they didnt even do that for Asante Samuel, or Lawyer Milloy. A stout front 7 always come 1st. Especialy to Bill Belichick.

    Even if we let go of wilfork and used a 4-3 defense, without a solid pass rush and stout play against the run, it wouldnt matter who we have at safety, the defense wouldnt be able to function.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    The PAts don't run as much 34 as they do 43 now. Anywho, I am inclined to think right now it is  Meriweather. Maybe Mayo, but Meriweather is making the calls back there.

    Harrison was the most important guy for a while, but the torch ahs been passed.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 617AcrossDaBoard. Show 617AcrossDaBoard's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    We were running a 4-3 mainly because we didn't have the linebackers to run an effective 3-4.  Take away Wilfork and plugging in Wright, Pryor, and maybe Brace and it should be an effecient enough interior 4-3 line. 

    But aquiring 2 1st rd picks and your almost gaurenteed to find Wilforks replacement with 1 of the 2 along with another impact or project type player.  All for it myself, but I've grown to like Wilfork on this Pats team.  Easier said than done when replacing a piece that fits and fits well.

    Oh yeah, and if i had to pick one player this defense is Mayo's.  A lot of young talent to be excited about as well....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    You build a team from the inside out... right now Vince is our best defensive player.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    I hate to jump on the Wilfork band wagon but it would seem that he is the only guy we can't replace and maintain the same level of defense. Jerod Mayo is a pretty close 2nd though.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    Look at the situation from the whole. At the end of the year some people are moving on. My arguement being the Patriots roster would benefit more by locking up McGowan and maybe Bodden long term, franchising Vince and then actively trying to move him. The deepest position on this team is defensive line. We have guys like Wright, Warren Brace and Pryor locked up for the next 4 years. With those four we could play a very effective 3-4 or run stopping 4-3. Also with the Tweener Hybrids we have our light 43 package as well. As it stands right now we know what we have behind Vince and it is not that bad. Pretty good actually. Behind McGowan we have an unproven Pat Chung and a solid but average safety in James Sanders.

    Maybe it is just me but I think it makes more sense to move Wilfork get some top notch picks that can turn into playmakers and keep the backend of our D tough to pass against.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    it starts with the line.they are the key guys,and then it spreads from there.the pats have had a rough time stopping,or slowing down the running game.a player designed for that is highly needed,and would be the most important player.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    We already have minimal pass rush. Take away a Wilfork and we will have minimal run D too.  Then the best secondary wont help when we can't run D or pass rush.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    When the season is over, at which point Bill would have lots of time to make moves and coach up new players, we move Wilfork. The league has changed to a passers league. Stopping the run is secondary to the pass. All the best teams in the league pass the ball well or stop the pass well or maybe both. If we want to be the Elite team again this is the movement we need on defense. If you haven't noticed that is the direction Bill is going. Smaller LBs not made for stopping the run first anymore. They are guys with speed and coverage skills. Stopping the run is secondary. The DBs have been overhauled. Look at the DL even, we move Seymour, a run stopping DE in our 3-4 alignment and then sign guys like Mike Wright, a 295 pound pass rushing NT in our 3-4 to a 4 year deal. The focus is getting better in coverage and better at getting to the QB.

    If Vince goes we do not become terrible at stopping the run. We might not be as good at it but with the right moves afterwards we could become awesome against the pass. With our offense, putting up points the way that it can, majority of teams will be playing catchup, teams do not run the ball at you to play catchup. The writing is on the wall.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    In Response to Re: Most important Defensive player...:
    [QUOTE]The PAts don't run as much 34 as they do 43 now. Anywho, I am inclined to think right now it is  Meriweather. Maybe Mayo, but Meriweather is making the calls back there. Harrison was the most important guy for a while, but the torch ahs been passed.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you the most important guy on Defense was Harrison. The dropoff on our D's level of play was staggering when he was not in the lineup. I believe Merriweather is making the majority of the calls back there, but it is McGowan who has assumed Rodney's role of the Safety/LB hybrid. Helping in run support and covering TE's. I think with his skill set you are able to let Merriweather be who he is and that is the Centerfielder type safety. With Sanders playing beside him, Merriweather is asked to be the one covering TEs and helping in the run game. Sanders doesn't really seem to have the trust from coaching staff to take on that role. The two obviously feed off of one another, the Brandons I mean. Either one not in the lineup would hurt this team.

    This does bring another question to the table. What to do with Sanders, who is getting paid starters money to play 3rd sting safety, possibly 4th if Chung makes the strides we all want him to make.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    In Response to Re: Most important Defensive player...:
    [QUOTE]When the season is over, at which point Bill would have lots of time to make moves and coach up new players, we move Wilfork. The league has changed to a passers league. Stopping the run is secondary to the pass. All the best teams in the league pass the ball well or stop the pass well or maybe both. If we want to be the Elite team again this is the movement we need on defense. If you haven't noticed that is the direction Bill is going. Smaller LBs not made for stopping the run first anymore. They are guys with speed and coverage skills. Stopping the run is secondary. The DBs have been overhauled. Look at the DL even, we move Seymour, a run stopping DE in our 3-4 alignment and then sign guys like Mike Wright, a 295 pound pass rushing NT in our 3-4 to a 4 year deal. The focus is getting better in coverage and better at getting to the QB. If Vince goes we do not become terrible at stopping the run. We might not be as good at it but with the right moves afterwards we could become awesome against the pass. With our offense, putting up points the way that it can, majority of teams will be playing catchup, teams do not run the ball at you to play catchup. The writing is on the wall.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan[/QUOTE]

    I think there is a way to keep Wilfork and the the guys that you want to hold on to. Vince brings power from the nose. He isn't just effective against the run he can penetrate well on pass plays. He is a disruptive force. I don't think that can be replaced as easily as your saying. That being said, with the uncapped season we have the ability to franchise and or transition 2 guys in 2010. We don't have to dump Wilfork, there are other options with contract renegotiations like the ones we saw a couple weeks ago. This is a big part of the reason why we sent Seymour to the Raiders.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    I love Wilfork and Warren, but I can't peg guys who play less than 50% of the defensive snaps as the most important players.  If the Pats were running a pure 3-4, i would absolutely say Vince.  However, they're featuring sub packages more than base defenses this year, and neither is on the field for those packages. 

    I'm still going with Mayo.  He controls the middle of the field when healthy.  McGowan has been a terrific addition, but Meriweather has saved a number of long touchdowns this year, and his impact in the deep middle of the field is immense.  Both are very important players.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    wilfork, hands down. the best NT in the business. mayo and merriweather a close second.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    I understand your point on Vince Wilforj not being much of a pass rusher, but he is very stout against the run. Most teams run on 1st and 2nd down, so BB has him on the field for those downs, and on 3rd and long (obvious passing situations) he is subbed in along with sub-package players. So he doesnt really limit our interior pass rush as much as you think he does, mike wright does a nice job pass rushing on the inside. Can we upgrade our interior pass rush? Yes i think we can, but the idea is to upgrade the interior pass rush, without having to loose our best run stopper.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    You know, it used to be when we needed a stop, SOMEBODY on the defense would pull it off.  Last couple of years, NOBODY did it.  I say the most important guy on our defense is, was and will be, SOMEBODY.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    In Response to Re: Most important Defensive player...:
    [QUOTE]You know, it used to be when we needed a stop, SOMEBODY on the defense would pull it off.  Last couple of years, NOBODY did it.  I say the most important guy on our defense is, was and will be, SOMEBODY.
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]

    How many times this season have we seen Vince Wilfork blow up a 3rd and short forcing the opposing team into a punt?  If he does his job on early downs, than guys like Meriweather and McGowan have an oppourtunity to make plays... not the other way around.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Most important Defensive player...

    As BB would say, it's team defense.  One guy doesn't make or break the defense. But overall Wilfork is probably the guy who's best at his position. Plus, in a 3-4, having a good NT is crucial and good NTs are hard to find. So I guess Wilfork is the guy you'd call out as "best" or "most important" if you were forced at gunpoint to say something that silly.  I bet you'll never hear BB say anything like that, though. You'll just hear more about team defense . . . 

    It's worth noting, too, that Wilfork is having a monster season this year. He's just totally dominating the interior part of the line of scrimmage--and he's playing well in both the 3-4 and the 4-3.
     

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