Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

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    Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

         If you thought that picking a Patriots' Mount Rushmore as tough...try this. Choose among such candidates as Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick...or anyone else that you deem worthy. There can be only four all-time greats selected. My choices: Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Bill Belichick. Here's why:

    1.) Bobby Orr: The greatest hockey player of all-time...bar none. Revolutionized the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Orr

    2.) Bill Russell: The teams he carried on his back won an astounding 11 championships in 13 years...the last two of those 11 were won as a player/coach. No other athlete will ever come close to matching that kind of success: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell    

    3.) Arnold "Red" Auerbach: Revolutionized basketball by emphasizing good defense, and the utilization of the fast break. Engineered a trade to acquire college star Bill Russell, to transform his basketball theories into reality. Subsequent to the Russell led Celtic dynasty from roughly 1956-1969, Red rebuilt and reloaded with John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, and Jo Jo White in the 70s, and Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale in the 80s:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Auerbach   

    4.) Bill Belichick: Perhaps the greatest football coach of all-time. Though many credit his great success from 2000-present with the Patriots to Tom Brady, the fact is that BB had success before he came to New England...as a DC with the Bill Parcells led NY Giants, and with the Cleveland Brows, from 1991-95, as a head coach. Though some will question his performance in Cleveland, he did lead that sad sack franchise to an 11-5 record and the play-offs, in 1994. Despite playing a season without Tom Brady in 2008, BB still managed to lead his team to 11 wins. BB drafted Brady, coachd him up, and made the courageous decision to play Tom ahead of Drew Bledsoe in 2001. Has led his Patriots' teams to ten AFC East championships in 13 years, five (5) SB appearances, and three world championships...all in the free agency/salary cap era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick    

         What say you? Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree...please state your reasons. I look forward to your responses.

           

      

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         If you thought that picking a Patriots' Mount Rushmore as tough...try this. Choose among such candidates as Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick...or anyone else that you deem worthy. There can be only four all-time greats selected. My choices: Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Bill Belichick. Here's why:

    1.) Bobby Orr: The greatest hockey player of all-time...bar none. Revolutionized the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Orr

    2.) Bill Russell: The teams he carried on his back won an astounding 11 championships in 13 years...the last two of those 11 were won as a player/coach. No other athlete will ever come close to matching that kind of success: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell    

    3.) Arnold "Red" Auerbach: Revolutionized basketball by emphasizing good defense, and the utilization of the fast break. Engineered a trade to acquire college star Bill Russell, to transform his basketball theories into reality. Subsequent to the Russell led Celtic dynasty from roughly 1956-1969, Red rebuilt and reloaded with John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, and Jo Jo White in the 70s, and Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale in the 80s:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Auerbach   

    4.) Bill Belichick: Perhaps the greatest football coach of all-time. Though many credit his great success from 2000-present with the Patriots to Tom Brady, the fact is that BB had success before he came to New England...as a DC with the Bill Parcells led NY Giants, and with the Cleveland Brows, from 1991-95, as a head coach. Though some will question his performance in Cleveland, he did lead that sad sack franchise to an 11-5 record and the play-offs, in 1994. Despite playing a season without Tom Brady in 2008, BB still managed to lead his team to 11 wins. BB drafted Brady, coachd him up, and made the courageous decision to play Tom ahead of Drew Bledsoe in 2001. Has led his Patriots' teams to ten AFC East championships in 13 years, five (5) SB appearances, and three world championships...all in the free agency/salary cap era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick    

         What say you? Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree...please state your reasons. I look forward to your responses.

           

      




    Tough to argue with any of those but you need more heads to get Ted Williams in there.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to glenr's comment:

           If you thought that picking a Patriots' Mount Rushmore as tough...try this. Choose among such candidates as Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick...or anyone else that you deem worthy. There can be only four all-time greats selected. My choices: Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Bill Belichick. Here's why:

    1.) Bobby Orr: The greatest hockey player of all-time...bar none. Revolutionized the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Orr

    2.) Bill Russell: The teams he carried on his back won an astounding 11 championships in 13 years...the last two of those 11 were won as a player/coach. No other athlete will ever come close to matching that kind of success: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell    

    3.) Arnold "Red" Auerbach: Revolutionized basketball by emphasizing good defense, and the utilization of the fast break. Engineered a trade to acquire college star Bill Russell, to transform his basketball theories into reality. Subsequent to the Russell led Celtic dynasty from roughly 1956-1969, Red rebuilt and reloaded with John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, and Jo Jo White in the 70s, and Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale in the 80s:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Auerbach   

    4.) Bill Belichick: Perhaps the greatest football coach of all-time. Though many credit his great success from 2000-present with the Patriots to Tom Brady, the fact is that BB had success before he came to New England...as a DC with the Bill Parcells led NY Giants, and with the Cleveland Brows, from 1991-95, as a head coach. Though some will question his performance in Cleveland, he did lead that sad sack franchise to an 11-5 record and the play-offs, in 1994. Despite playing a season without Tom Brady in 2008, BB still managed to lead his team to 11 wins. BB drafted Brady, coachd him up, and made the courageous decision to play Tom ahead of Drew Bledsoe in 2001. Has led his Patriots' teams to ten AFC East championships in 13 years, five (5) SB appearances, and three world championships...all in the free agency/salary cap era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick    

         What say you? Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree...please state your reasons. I look forward to your responses.

           

     Tough to argue with any of those but you need more heads to get Ted Williams in there.


    RESPONSE: Actually, I would squeeze Tom Brady and Larry Bird in, before Teddy Ballgame. Though Teddy was the greatest hitter of all-time, he never led his team to a championship. For this reason, I would give Brady and Bird the nod over him.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         If you thought that picking a Patriots' Mount Rushmore as tough...try this. Choose among such candidates as Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick...or anyone else that you deem worthy. There can be only four all-time greats selected. My choices: Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Bill Belichick. Here's why:

    1.) Bobby Orr: The greatest hockey player of all-time...bar none. Revolutionized the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Orr

    2.) Bill Russell: The teams he carried on his back won an astounding 11 championships in 13 years...the last two of those 11 were won as a player/coach. No other athlete will ever come close to matching that kind of success: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell    

    3.) Arnold "Red" Auerbach: Revolutionized basketball by emphasizing good defense, and the utilization of the fast break. Engineered a trade to acquire college star Bill Russell, to transform his basketball theories into reality. Subsequent to the Russell led Celtic dynasty from roughly 1956-1969, Red rebuilt and reloaded with John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, and Jo Jo White in the 70s, and Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale in the 80s:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Auerbach   

    4.) Bill Belichick: Perhaps the greatest football coach of all-time. Though many credit his great success from 2000-present with the Patriots to Tom Brady, the fact is that BB had success before he came to New England...as a DC with the Bill Parcells led NY Giants, and with the Cleveland Brows, from 1991-95, as a head coach. Though some will question his performance in Cleveland, he did lead that sad sack franchise to an 11-5 record and the play-offs, in 1994. Despite playing a season without Tom Brady in 2008, BB still managed to lead his team to 11 wins. BB drafted Brady, coachd him up, and made the courageous decision to play Tom ahead of Drew Bledsoe in 2001. Has led his Patriots' teams to ten AFC East championships in 13 years, five (5) SB appearances, and three world championships...all in the free agency/salary cap era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick    

         What say you? Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree...please state your reasons. I look forward to your responses.

           

      




    LOL!

     

    Sorry TP, NFW BB gets there and Williams/Brady don't. N! F! W!

     

    As a matter of fact, due to spygate, he might not even make it if there were 8 heads!

    I also find this "he won rings with Parcells" as mostly a homer tactic and grasping at straws. Also, his tenure in Cleveland was a fail, not to mention his greatest success was with many Parcells/Carrol players. Without them he has won zero Lombardis.

    I would go with Williams, Orr, Brady and Russell.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports


    Trying to pick just players....one from each sport.

    Brady - No brainer

    Orr - No brainer

    Bird - Toss up between him and Russell

    Pedro? Williams? No Redsox players stand out as all time greats like some of the above.

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to tanbass' comment:

     

    Bird - Toss up between him and Russell

     




    I don't think it's a toss up, clearly Russell is the #1 Boston Celtic of all time!  Bird is # 2 but there should be no toss up between the 2.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to tanbass' comment:


    Trying to pick just players....one from each sport.

    Brady - No brainer

    Orr - No brainer

    Bird - Toss up between him and Russell

    Pedro? Williams? No Redsox players stand out as all time greats like some of the above.

     Clemens was much better then Pedro and I wouldnt vote Roidger in.




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         If you thought that picking a Patriots' Mount Rushmore as tough...try this. Choose among such candidates as Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick...or anyone else that you deem worthy. There can be only four all-time greats selected. My choices: Bobby Orr, Bill Russell, Red Auerbach, Bill Belichick. Here's why:

    1.) Bobby Orr: The greatest hockey player of all-time...bar none. Revolutionized the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Orr

    2.) Bill Russell: The teams he carried on his back won an astounding 11 championships in 13 years...the last two of those 11 were won as a player/coach. No other athlete will ever come close to matching that kind of success: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell    

    3.) Arnold "Red" Auerbach: Revolutionized basketball by emphasizing good defense, and the utilization of the fast break. Engineered a trade to acquire college star Bill Russell, to transform his basketball theories into reality. Subsequent to the Russell led Celtic dynasty from roughly 1956-1969, Red rebuilt and reloaded with John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, and Jo Jo White in the 70s, and Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale in the 80s:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Auerbach   

    4.) Bill Belichick: Perhaps the greatest football coach of all-time. Though many credit his great success from 2000-present with the Patriots to Tom Brady, the fact is that BB had success before he came to New England...as a DC with the Bill Parcells led NY Giants, and with the Cleveland Brows, from 1991-95, as a head coach. Though some will question his performance in Cleveland, he did lead that sad sack franchise to an 11-5 record and the play-offs, in 1994. Despite playing a season without Tom Brady in 2008, BB still managed to lead his team to 11 wins. BB drafted Brady, coachd him up, and made the courageous decision to play Tom ahead of Drew Bledsoe in 2001. Has led his Patriots' teams to ten AFC East championships in 13 years, five (5) SB appearances, and three world championships...all in the free agency/salary cap era: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick      



    Sorry TP, NFW BB gets there and Williams/Brady don't. N! F! W!

    RESPONSE: I knew I would hear from you on this! The 4th choice came down to BB or Brady. Sorry...but BB deserves more credit than even Tom for turning the Patriots' franchise into THE model franchise in the sporting world.  

    As a matter of fact, due to spygate, he might not even make it if there were 8 heads!

    RESPONSE:Stop it! You're sounding like UD6, a/k/a "The Dog (ggggg), now! Surely you realize that spygate was a media created, BS scandal. Furthermore, assuming there was something to spygate, both BB and Brady would have been the duo  beneficiaries of it...right?

    I also find this "he won rings with Parcells" as mostly a homer tactic and grasping at straws.

    RESPONSE: Really? Then please explain to me why the defensive game plan that BB devised in SB 25 against the Buffalo Bills in the 1991 SB is now situated in the Pro Football Hall of Fame? Take a look at BB's accomplishments in the 13 years he spent as NY Giant's DC: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/141906-why-bill-belichick-is-a-hall-of-famer 

    Also, his tenure in Cleveland was a fail,

    RESPONSE: Nonsense. He took a hapless team and franchise, and went 7-9 in his first two seasons...before going 11-5 in his third year. Then came the distractions caused by his correct decission to release home town hero Bernie Kosar, and ArtModel's sellout to Baltimore, in his final season. 

    not to mention his greatest success was with many Parcells/Carrol players.

    RESPONSE: More nonsense! BB built his first title team in 2001 with "B" level free agents, Tom Brady, and rookie Richard Seymour...both of whom HE drafted. 

    Without them he has won zero Lombardis.

    RESPONSE: Without BB...Tom Brady may never have seen the light of day in Foxborough.

    I would go with Williams, Orr, Brady and Russell.

     

    RESPONSE: One other thing on "Spygate:

    During Spygate

     

    I know there’s some people who have done their research and feel annoyed and that it's unnecessary that I mention this, but I’m putting together a case for why Belichick should be a Hall of Famer, I have to address this issue as it is part of Belichick’s career.

    First and foremost Belichick was not convicted of “cheating” by the NFL. He was convicted of improper camera placement.

    As my good friend John here on B/R has mentioned many times before, the NFL rule books state that teams cannot put cameras anywhere in a stadium that doesn‘t have three walls and a roof over it (the press box).

    Belichick didn’t use the video tapes he had for the game that was being played. He used them for future reference. He didn’t video tape every team they played. The video tapes containing others things and contained few aspects of the opponents defensive signals.

    We must ask ourselves a question: did Bill Belichick gain any competitive edge with Spygate, and if so, how much of an edge?

    Belichick reportedly started video taping the other team's defensive signals in the 2000 NFL season, which was the year that the Patriots finished the season with a 5-11 record.

    The next season was a dramatic turnaround, as the team won their first Super Bowl.

    Right after winning their first franchise Super Bowl in 2002, a year that included the era of Spygate, the Patriots finished the season with no playoff berth.

    The next year they went back to the Super Bowl and won it. The same thing goes with 2004.

    So the first five years of Spygate resulted in three Super Bowls and two seasons with no playoff berths.

    If Spygate was such an advantage, why was it so inconsistent?

    The answer: Even if it did give Belichick an edge, it was only a minimal edge--if it was such an enormous edge, then the Patriots wouldn’t have been so inconsistent in their first five years of the Spygate scandal. Yes, they won three Super Bowls, but they missed the playoffs twice those years.

     

     

     

    After Spygate:

     

    Lets look at his career after spy gate. After the NFL found out about Belichick’s video taping NFL agents were ordered to oversee everything that the Patriots do on the sidelines.

    In his first season without “cheating” ( he didn’t “cheat” in the Jets game because the video tapes were seized) he became the only coach in NFL history to lead a team to a 16-0 season.

    He lead the New England Patriots to a 18-0 record before finally losing to the New York Giants in the final minutes of the Super Bowl. He engineered a defense that was ranked 4th in the league in overall defense.

    In his second year of not “cheating” he lead the Patriots to an 11-5 record and missed the playoffs only for the simple fact that he had a poor conference record, and the Patriots became the only 11-5 team since the 1985 Denver Broncos to miss the playoffs.

    Belichick's overall record after Spygate is 29-6.

    An argument could be proposed that Bill Belichick now has a better team and doesn’t need to cheat. That isn’t exactly true. Yes, the Patriots now have a better offense but their defensive unit during the Spygate era was much better than the one they had during the past two years.

    The Patriots have won at least nine games in the last seven years under Belichick.

    In the playoffs, Belichick is 15-4 over his career both with the Browns and Patriots. Only Vince Lombardi has a better wining percentage in the playoffs than Belichick does.

    The only obstacle preventing Bill Belichick from being a Hall of Famer is Spygate. But as I mentioned, he has succeeded without Spygate. If you look beyond that, Belichick’s accomplishments are unmatched by any coach in the last decade and is among the NFL's all-time greatest coaches.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/141906-why-bill-belichick-is-a-hall-of-famer

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    ---------------------------------------------

    check out my Patriots photoshops @ patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com for some good laughs.


    Photobucket





    Great job and this is the way it should be . . . one PLAYER from each major sport.  These 4 have been the best ever to play on their teams!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    If we're going with players only then for me it is:

    #1 - Bill Rusell

    #2 - Tom Brady

    #3 - Ted Williams

    #4 - Bobby Orr

    Full disclosure:  When I was a kid, Bill Russell was my idol.   I've never seen anyone (then or now) do the things that Russ could do in a game.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports


    It's hard to vote for people you didn't actually watch play.

    Russell was before my time, never saw him play....and the 80s was all Bird.

    Ted Williams probably gets the nod, but again...WAY before my time, and my pick of Pedro was trying to find a Sox player that had a hand in the world series win. Clemons will never get a vote from me for anything!! LOL

    I was too young to watch Orr back in the day, but besides (maybe Bourque), there isn't anyone that comes close.

    Pretty sure Brady is a shoe in.....

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    Mods, don't remove my post of this picture!  I made the thing so no copyright rules apply!

     

     

    ---------------------------------------------

    check out my Patriots photoshops @ patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com for some good laughs.


    Photobucket


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    RESPONSE:Stop it! You're sounding like UD6, a/k/a "The Dog (ggggg), now! Surely you realize that spygate was a media created, BS scandal. Furthermore, assuming there was something to spygate, both BB and Brady would have been the duo  beneficiaries of it...right?

     



    No, I sound like Kraft. I too say BB was a shmukk for ignoring the league memo. I never said he was a cheater.

    I also never said spygate benefited the team. And Brady's numbers only went up after the taping stopped.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE] 

    RESPONSE:Stop it! You're sounding like UD6, a/k/a "The Dog (ggggg), now! Surely you realize that spygate was a media created, BS scandal. Furthermore, assuming there was something to spygate, both BB and Brady would have been the duo  beneficiaries of it...right?



    No, I sound like Kraft. I too say BB was a shmukk for ignoring the league memo. I never said he was a cheater. I also never said spygate benefited the team. And Brady's numbers only went up after the taping stopped.

    RESPONSE: I'm glad that you agree that it had the taping had no impact on what the Pats did on the field. I agree that BB made a bad choice. In his defense, I dare say that others have paid little attention to league memos in the past. Who knew that this would become the mess that it became? Other teams were doing the same thing (Jets), and weren't punished. The Broncos had cheated on the salary cap one year, and weren't severly punished.

         If we agree that sygate had no impact on the team's performance, why should it take away from what BB has accomplished with the Pats?

    [/QUOTE]


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    [QUOTE] 

     

    RESPONSE:Stop it! You're sounding like UD6, a/k/a "The Dog (ggggg), now! Surely you realize that spygate was a media created, BS scandal. Furthermore, assuming there was something to spygate, both BB and Brady would have been the duo  beneficiaries of it...right?

     



    No, I sound like Kraft. I too say BB was a shmukk for ignoring the league memo. I never said he was a cheater. I also never said spygate benefited the team. And Brady's numbers only went up after the taping stopped.

     

    RESPONSE: I'm glad that you agree that it had the taping had no impact on what the Pats did on the field. I agree that BB made a bad choice. In his defense, I dare say that others have paid little attention to league memos in the past. Who knew that this would become the mess that it became? Other teams were doing the same thing (Jets), and weren't punished. The Broncos had cheated on the salary cap one year, and weren't severly punished.

         If we agree that sygate had no impact on the team's performance, why should it take away from what BB has accomplished with the Pats?

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    [/QUOTE]


    Like it or not, BB will always be judged by most not simply on his players accomplishments, but also on "how" he coached. Not by homers, but by objective people.

    He broke rules when he was directly told to knock it off. He and the team were penalized to the greatest degree in league history (to that point).

    He doesn't belong on a 4 spot Mt. Rusmore for Boston sports.

    I'm not a big "coach" credit giver anyway. Like a trainer, it is much more how good the horse is under the jockey than how you train him. Yeah, it is a significant factor, but not nearly as big a factor as having the great players is.

     

    Kind of funny TP to see you the homer basher being a homer, LOL.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from darwk. Show darwk's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    If we're going with players only then for me it is:

    #1 - Bill Rusell

    #2 - Tom Brady

    #3 - Ted Williams

    #4 - Bobby Orr

    Full disclosure:  When I was a kid, Bill Russell was my idol.   I've never seen anyone (then or now) do the things that Russ could do in a game.  

     

    +1 on all the above- simply the best.




     
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    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    Mt Rushmore is an impressive carving, the act of Mt Rushmoring everything into a category is tired.

    New England has too many heads to post four; Williams, Russell, Bird, Bobby Orr, Brady, Hondo, Marciano, Hagler, Papi, Pedro... and those are just the players, who do you leave off?  It's silly... 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

      

    RESPONSE: I'm glad that you agree that it had the taping had no impact on what the Pats did on the field. I agree that BB made a bad choice. In his defense, I dare say that others have paid little attention to league memos in the past. Who knew that this would become the mess that it became? Other teams were doing the same thing (Jets), and weren't punished. The Broncos had cheated on the salary cap one year, and weren't severly punished.

         If we agree that sygate had no impact on the team's performance, why should it take away from what BB has accomplished with the Pats?




    [/QUOTE]


    Like it or not, BB will always be judged by most not simply on his players accomplishments, but also on "how" he coached. Not by homers, but by objective people.

    RESPONSE: You can't have it both ways. Either you're taking the position that spygate legitimately tarnishes Bill, or you're not. It's not a "Homer" position to say that spygate was, and is, BS. It's an objective position, based on facts...as discussed in the article above. The subjective position is that of the BB and New England Patriots' haters, who say that spygate illegitimatized everything BB's Pats accomplished, because they cheated. Why? Because the haters have no evidence to support their view.

         You yourself stressed the point that you were not saying that the Pats cheated. So...those haters who judge "how he coached"...which is another way to say spygate...are not the objective ones. 

    He broke rules when he was directly told to knock it off. He and the team were penalized to the greatest degree in league history (to that point).

    RESPONSE: So what!! Again, you want to have it both ways. He was punished severely. If anything, spygate hurt his team...not helped it! The penalty of docking the Pats the 31st overall pick was far worse than any slight advantage gained by the taping. AND, again...just about every other NFL team was doing this. Goodell merely made an example of the Pats, in order to solidify his power, and to pacify his buddies in the NY media.  

    He doesn't belong on a 4 spot Mt. Rusmore for Boston sports.

    RESPONSE: That's your conclusion...and opinion. But, citing spygate as the reason is both bogus, and beneath you. If you want to argue that Brady is more deserving...fine. But instead, to throw rocks at BB is a Rustonian tactic. It is also illogical...because if BB's achievements are inflated due to spygate, aren't Brady's achievements similarly affected?

    I'm not a big "coach" credit giver anyway. Like a trainer, it is much more how good the horse is under the jockey than how you train him. Yeah, it is a significant factor, but not nearly as big a factor as having the great players is.

    RESPONSE: Fine. That's a much more logical tact, than to point to spygate. But, football is not like horse racing, or boxing. In those sports, it's all about the horse...or the boxer. The trainer augments the talents of the horse or boxer, and aids in bringing out their best. But, football is a team game. You have to build your team...motivate your team...and coach your team in such a fashion that puts your players in a position to succeed, according to their collective talents.  

         Thus, a great coach is far more valuable than a great trainer. Would the Green Bay Packers of the 60s been anywhere near as successful, without Vince Lombardi? But, if someone other than Angelo Dundee trained Muhammad Ali, would it really have mattered as much?

    Kind of funny TP to see you the homer basher being a homer, LOL.

    RESPONSE: Kind of silly of you to stoop to calling me a Homer...when my position on BB and spygate is an objective one, supported by facts...by your own admission. Or, again, are you trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth...and are taking the position that BB "cheated"?

    [/QUOTE]


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Mt Rushmore is an impressive carving, the act of Mt Rushmoring everything into a category is tired.

    New England has too many heads to post four; Williams, Russell, Bird, Bobby Orr, Brady, Hondo, Marciano, Hagler, Papi, Pedro... and those are just the players, who do you leave off?  It's silly... 

     



    RESPONSE: No. It's not "silly". The exercise of chosing just four out of all the choices is both challenging, and thought provoking. Perhaps this is why you're bothered by it, Woz.

     

    LOL!!!!    

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to darwk's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    If we're going with players only then for me it is:

    #1 - Bill Rusell

    #2 - Tom Brady

    #3 - Ted Williams

    #4 - Bobby Orr

    Full disclosure:  When I was a kid, Bill Russell was my idol.   I've never seen anyone (then or now) do the things that Russ could do in a game.  

     

    +1 on all the above- simply the best.

     



    RESPONSE: How you doing, my friend! It's a tough choice!

     

         If I had to pick "the greatest" sports figure in Boston history, I agree that it would be Russell. His accomplishments of 11 titles in 13 years will never be equaled. And, he accomplished it against some first class competition, from the likes of Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, and Oscar Robertson (who averaged a triple double per game!).


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from darwk. Show darwk's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to darwk's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    If we're going with players only then for me it is:

    #1 - Bill Rusell

    #2 - Tom Brady

    #3 - Ted Williams

    #4 - Bobby Orr

    Full disclosure:  When I was a kid, Bill Russell was my idol.   I've never seen anyone (then or now) do the things that Russ could do in a game.  

     

    +1 on all the above- simply the best.

     



    RESPONSE: How you doing, my friend! It's a tough choice!

     

         If I had to pick "the greatest" sports figure in Boston history, I agree that it would be Russell. His accomplishments of 11 titles in 13 years will never be equaled. And, he accomplished it against some first class competition, from the likes of Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, and Oscar Robertson (who averaged a triple double per game!).




    Hey Texas Pat- for all the reasons you state and more- Russell leads the pack of greatest Boston athletes in my book. It is a tough call.  It would be interesting to do a player and coach "Rushmore".  Diversion is good right now- these are interesting offseason times for the Pats. Football and the Patriots is the Boston sport I most care about win, lose or draw, with Red Sox/Celtics closely tied for second and have followed all  for years and years... Hockey in Boston usually isn't on my radar though I have family and friends that are fanatics.  I freely admit I am a bandwagon Bruins fan now.   Appreciate the fierce way they are playing as a team. Really good mojo for Boston fandom. And as usual Boston is going wild with support for the team. Go B's!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     

    RESPONSE: Kind of silly of you to stoop to calling me a Homer...when my position on BB and spygate is an objective one, supported by facts...by your own admission. Or, again, are you trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth...and are taking the position that BB "cheated"?

     



    It really isn't very objective on your part. He blatantly broke a rule in direct defiance of a very specific league order. You can parse words all you like about "cheating" but it doesn't change the fact he brought one of the worst scandals in the history of the NFL down on our beloved team through sheer stupidity. And THAT is a reflection on him no matter how much you try to homer whitewash it.

     

    And beyond that the rest of your contentions have been refuted anyway. NO Boston Sports Mt. Rushmore for BB!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    I think the debate over the impact of 'Spygate', perceived or otherwise, will continue for some time to come.  One thing with which I cannot take issue:  BB pushed the envelope to the point of obstinance.  The NFL determined that he violated a recently emphasized prohibition and BB and the Pats paid a price for it.  That there was any genuine impact on the outcome of any football game is highly unlikely based on everything that I've ever been able to find on the matter.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Mount Rushmore of Boston Sports

    Picking only 4 is incredibly tough and is a disservice to the many greats who played/coached in Boston.  In spite of that, I would have to go with Orr, Russell, Brady, Williams.

     

     

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