New Wrinkle

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    New Wrinkle

    I actually just watched the "game winning" td play from the end zone camera.

    Now, I know that contact can be initiated within 5 yards of the LoS so that may be a mitigating factor, but when Wayne crosses into the end zone, he pushes off Wilhite to create separation. 

    I really wasn't looking for yet another call and I would like some perspective on this, but my jaw actually dropped when I saw the replay.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoHoldingCalls. Show NoHoldingCalls's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]I actually just watched the "game winning" td play from the end zone camera. Now, I know that contact can be initiated within 5 yards of the LoS so that may be a mitigating factor, but when Wayne crosses into the end zone, he pushes off Wilhite to create separation.  I really wasn't looking for yet another call and I would like some perspective on this, but my jaw actually dropped when I saw the replay.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]
    I don't see it.  It looked like a pretty clean play.
    If you have the game DVR'ed, go to one of the plays where the Colts rush Brady and they concentrate on (I believe) Mathis coming from behind to force Brady to rush the pass, and as he is releasing, there is a lineman hitting Brady helmet to helmet.  The network showed it in slow motion.  I was surprised the announcers didn't say anything.
    Calls or no, lack of execution (and play calling that was far too conservative) in the 4th quarter were the Pats demise
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox148927. Show sox148927's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    NoHoldingCalls

    i noticed that during the game last night, clearly brady was hit helmet to helmet and 99% of the time that would be a roughing call, even prior to this years new "brady rule"...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    I noticed Vollmer holding and the pats dbs manhandling colts receivers beyond 5 yards.  Did anyone else notice that?  I wonder why the refs didn't call that. 

    clearly Belichick had those refs in his pocket.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to New Wrinkle : I don't see it.  It looked like a pretty clean play. If you have the game DVR'ed, go to one of the plays where the Colts rush Brady and they concentrate on (I believe) Mathis coming from behind to force Brady to rush the pass, and as he is releasing, there is a lineman hitting Brady helmet to helmet.  The network showed it in slow motion.  I was surprised the announcers didn't say anything. Calls or no, lack of execution (and play calling that was far too conservative) in the 4th quarter were the Pats demise
    Posted by NoHoldingCalls[/QUOTE]

    I am talking about Manning's pass to Wayne. Not the 4th and 2. I have it TiVo'ed too, but I never re-watched the TD, just the PI and 4th and 2 plays.

    See if they show the replay from the end zone angle.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]I noticed Vollmer holding and the pats dbs manhandling colts receivers beyond 5 yards.  Did anyone else notice that?  I wonder why the refs didn't call that.  clearly Belichick had those refs in his pocket.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Actually, you already talked about this with HRK. He said he noticed both defenses bumping receivers and was wondering at what point they wopuld call it on the Pats. (Please correct me if I am wrong, hrk. I don't want to misrepresent you.)

    But you keep trying to say that only the Pats defenders were bumping. Why is that? At least attempt to maintain integrity. You more often than not do just that unless you see the validity of the point being made that counters yours.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    Root, because they were the ones playing bump and run all night.  The colts weren't. 

    Here's the point and I said it on another thread.  Belichick got the officiating game he wanted.  Exact same as 04 afccg, and he lost.  They let the db's play it rough and thats what the pats did and they lost. 

    You got the game you hoped for.  Quit complaining.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoHoldingCalls. Show NoHoldingCalls's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : I am talking about Manning's pass to Wayne. Not the 4th and 2. I have it TiVo'ed too, but I never re-watched the TD, just the PI and 4th and 2 plays. See if they show the replay from the end zone angle.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]
    I watched the Wayne replay and didn't see much contact.
    When they showed the replays of Vollmer's work, I didn't see any holds, and was actually looking for them because I kept thinking (you can't stop Freeney this well without holding him!).
    In regards to DBs, I didn't see anything that made me say "thank goodness we got away with that".  Hands are always on WR and WR hands are always on the DBs.
    Seriously, there was a helmet to helmet dead center screen in slow motion last night.  With the way the league has been so "generous" to QBs, i was surprised it wasn't called.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]Root, because they were the ones playing bump and run all night.  The colts weren't.  Here's the point and I said it on another thread.  Belichick got the officiating game he wanted.  Exact same as 04 afccg, and he lost.  They let the db's play it rough and thats what the pats did and they lost.  You got the game you hoped for.  Quit complaining.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    I didn't see what you and HRK were talking about so I can only rely on yours and hrk's postings. He even chided you for trying to spin it as if it were a oneway street. Are you saying there was no bumping from the Colts defenders? It certainly looks like that is how they are playing on the 1 replay I can speak to - the 4th and 2.

    From your attitude, I am guessing that you do understand that you guys got away with one.

    And, just so you know, this is no reflection on the Colts. They got some great breaks and took the fullest possible advantage of them, but I am not going to say they hit a game winning home run, when the refs had them batting from third base.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox148927. Show sox148927's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    underdogg is reaching now...please dude, you got your win good for you, but the officiating was certainly more beneficial to the colts...i am not crying about it because its part of football, and good and bad calls are part of the game for every team...personally i feel its the pats fault for not doing more to really put this game away and i dont blame this loss on the refs whatsoever...was simply pointing out a play that brady was in fact hit helmet to helmet and there was no call, and i find that ironic considering there has been so much whining this year about how brady gets all the calls..
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : I watched the Wayne replay and didn't see much contact. When they showed the replays of Vollmer's work, I didn't see any holds, and was actually looking for them because I kept thinking (you can't stop Freeney this well without holding him!). In regards to DBs, I didn't see anything that made me say "thank goodness we got away with that".  Hands are always on WR and WR hands are always on the DBs. Seriously, there was a helmet to helmet dead center screen in slow motion last night.  With the way the league has been so "generous" to QBs, i was surprised it wasn't called.
    Posted by NoHoldingCalls[/QUOTE]

    Wayne pushes Wilhite to Wayne's left using his right arm coming across his body. He uses it more to push himself to the right and create separation.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking99. Show Harleyroadking99's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    EnochRoot, Dogg is losing integrity with every post, that or he's just F'in with the board. And Yes Enoch you said it right I saw BOTH sides hand check. Watch the the TD catch by Moss Bethia is trying to rake Moss's arms before the ball arrives but Moss was able to catch it I thought for sure a flag would be thrown.

    Back to Dogg I don't have a problem with him being a homer for his team but he always pertains that the Colts never commit any wrong, never say anything wrong, never commit a penalty and are always gracious....but that's our Dogg isn't it. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]Root, because they were the ones playing bump and run all night.  The colts weren't.  Here's the point and I said it on another thread.  Belichick got the officiating game he wanted.  Exact same as 04 afccg, and he lost.  They let the db's play it rough and thats what the pats did and they lost.  You got the game you hoped for.  Quit complaining.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Doesn't matter - Wayne's alleged pushoff occurred within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.  If they wanted to jam him, they should have sent Chung or Merriweather out on him and had Wilhite double over the top.  Then Chung/Merriweather could have slid over to help on Clark thereafter, as long as McGowan kept inside leverage and forced Clark outward toward the sideline.

    Hindsight is 20/20, though.

    BUT I don't see how what Bethea and the rookie did to Moss was any different from what Darius Butler was flagged for against Austin Collie.  Despite my opinion that the outcome was independent of the call, I still don't see the contact...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]EnochRoot, Dogg is losing integrity with every post, that or he's just F'in with the board. And Yes Enoch you said it right I saw BOTH sides hand check. Watch the the TD catch by Moss Bethia is trying to rake Moss's arms before the ball arrives but Moss was able to catch it I thought for sure a flag would be thrown. Back to Dogg I don't have a problem with him being a homer for his team but he always pertains that the Colts never commit any wrong, never say anything wrong, never commit a penalty and are always gracious....but that's our Dogg isn't it. 
    Posted by Harleyroadking99[/QUOTE]

    He can sometimes be fair. I think he is just getting aggravated that the more he watches it, the more he realizes the gift that was given to the Colts.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoHoldingCalls. Show NoHoldingCalls's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : Wayne pushes Wilhite to Wayne's left using his right arm coming across his body. He uses it more to push himself to the right and create separation.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]
    I am only going by the replay on the NFL website.  I am not getting enough angles or closeness to see hand/arm play.
    Have the Colts ever been called for OPI?  I can't recall any, but I don't watch every game of theirs.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : Doesn't matter - Wayne's alleged pushoff occurred within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.  If they wanted to jam him, they should have sent Chung or Merriweather out on him and had Wilhite double over the top.  Then Chung/Merriweather could have slid over to help on Clark thereafter, as long as McGowan kept inside leverage and forced Clark outward toward the sideline. Hindsight is 20/20, though. BUT I don't see how what Bethea and the rookie did to Moss was any different from what Darius Butler was flagged for against Austin Collie.  Despite my opinion that the outcome was independent of the call, I still don't see the contact...
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Thanks. I wasn't sure if the 5 yard rule still applied in the endzone. 

    On the DPI, I see the contact, I just don't see it as DPI. They are both playing the ball. Collie either stumbles a bit so he back hits Butler or he leans back on purpose, but either way, he initiates the contact. 

    Maybe the ref was just amazed by Moss' catch and forgot to throw the flag. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : I am only going by the replay on the NFL website.  I am not getting enough angles or closeness to see hand/arm play. Have the Colts ever been called for OPI?  I can't recall any, but I don't watch every game of theirs.
    Posted by NoHoldingCalls[/QUOTE]

    I caught it on the ESPN replay. I am not sure if they showed it during the game, but they probably did. It is an endzone angle. In the upper left sideline angle, you can see him contact Wilhite just as he is going into the endzone. On the other angle though it is a good push. The point is moot though as NickC points out that the 5 yard chuck rule is still in effect in the endzone.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    New Wrinkle


    Folks, we lost on a very poor call by the coach. had they kicked it away I believe we would have stopped them and gone on to win. we will never know but this was not about bad calls by the refs, this was bad calls by the coach
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]Folks, we lost on a very poor call by the coach. had they kicked it away I believe we would have stopped them and gone on to win. we will never know but this was not about bad calls by the refs, this was bad calls by the coach
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]

    They actually had the first down with an unfavorable and incorrect spot.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LifeTimePat. Show LifeTimePat's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]Folks, we lost on a very poor call by the coach. had they kicked it away I believe we would have stopped them and gone on to win. we will never know but this was not about bad calls by the refs, this was bad calls by the coach
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]

    gmbill... BB was afraid of what we all know... If he punted, all manning had to do was lob a 40 yard pass somewhere and he'll get a 40 yard Pass interference call.  BB was trying to keep the game out of the hands of the officials.  What he didn't bank on is the very poor spot.

    The spot was even subtley questioned by BB:
    "“We came out here to win,” head coach Bill Belichick told reporters. “Tried to win the game on that play. I thought we could make the yard. I thought we had a good play. I don’t know how we couldn’t get a yard on that completion. I guess we didn’t.""

    If that's not a dig at the refs, I don't know what is....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to New Wrinkle : gmbill... BB was afraid of what we all know... If he punted, all manning had to do was lob a 40 yard pass somewhere and he'll get a 40 yard Pass interference call.  BB was trying to keep the game out of the hands of the officials.  What he didn't bank on is the very poor spot. The spot was even subtley questioned by BB: "“We came out here to win,” head coach Bill Belichick told reporters. “Tried to win the game on that play. I thought we could make the yard. I thought we had a good play. I don’t know how we couldn’t get a yard on that completion . I guess we didn’t."" If that's not a dig at the refs, I don't know what is....
    Posted by LifeTimePat[/QUOTE]

    At the time, I thought it was an observation about the offense, but after thinking about it later, I came to the same conclusion you did.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : At the time, I thought it was an observation about the offense, but after thinking about it later, I came to the same conclusion you did.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]

    Sorry guys, I feel the same way I did last night when he decided to go for it, bad call. Yeah Manning might have moved down the field and won, but I think we had a good chance of rallying and stopping him. I KNEW he would get it in from the 30 yard line..no doubt, he is too good. To argue that we made it is kind of a waste, we gave the refs the chance to make that call.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LifeTimePat. Show LifeTimePat's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Wrinkle : At the time, I thought it was an observation about the offense, but after thinking about it later, I came to the same conclusion you did.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]

    This is supported by the fact that BB does his homework on the refs and tells his players what to expect.  As I said before, if we notice this, believe me, so does Bill.
    His decision was clearly based on the officiating.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TOGAH-2009. Show TOGAH-2009's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    Your whining and moaning are sickening.  Grow up.  You lost to the better team with a better QB.  It's not the weathers fault, the refs, the crowd noise or anything else.  BB made a horrible call.  Brady gets picked off in the endzone.  LoonyToons fumbles another in the endzone.  You guys choked.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: New Wrinkle

    In Response to Re: New Wrinkle:
    [QUOTE]Your whining and moaning are sickening.  Grow up.  You lost to the better team with a better QB.  It's not the weathers fault, the refs, the crowd noise or anything else.  BB made a horrible call.  Brady gets picked off in the endzone.  LoonyToons fumbles another in the endzone.  You guys choked.
    Posted by TOGAH-2009[/QUOTE]

    blah..blah..blah.............
    that's all you have been posting on the boards all day. Bring something to the table.....
     

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